Even more Drone questions it never stops!

[Captain Jonah]

Two points about the quote from Capt J's other topic:

1) Those are not pull-quotes from Matthew's postings, but rather Capt J's paraphrasing and summarizations.

2) If you go to that topic and scroll down about a dozen messages, there's a post from Matthew saying that his postings on the board are -NOT- to be considered as rulings.

1. Hey Billco gets to share the blame as well. :lol:
Matt did go through the notes and edited them, then went back and changed his edits when we said they made less sense. The Fed combined Drone racks were changed several times as Matts postings changed :roll:

2. Matt does indeed say that his postings are not to be taken as gospel. The problem with that is if we cannot take his words as being "The Word" then how are all these matters decided.

ADDs come up again and again and again. If you look back over the last few months there are a number of topics that cover ADDs and how they work. I know this isn't SFB but the FAQs simply do not cover the ambiguities and multiple interpretations of the rules.

Rules light is one thing but for me there should be a few less nice pictures and a clear example next to every rule. Maybe when the rules are re printed we can nag Matt to double the size of the rules by clearing things up. There are simply too many areas where people keep coming to the forum to question because they are not clear.

Like a weapon that “hits” and does “Hits”. :roll:

Maybe its just the Old school SFB player in me, set in my ways from 30 plus years of gaming but rules should be clear, concise and have examples. It says a lot of headache later on. ACTA-SF is a great game but the rules need to be a bit tighter.

To my mind Drones "Attacking" means "will" hit. If an enemy launchers 4 Drones from 36" and two of them lose lock on due to long range then there are two Drones actually attacking you. If you shoot down one drone with a Phaser then there is one drone attacking you.

Its a battle between FTL capable star ships set in an advanced high tech verse not some tech 9 Traveller rust buckets. The fire control and sensors are good enough to see that something a few light seconds away is no longer a threat :lol:

 

[MarkDawg]

Thanks all for the lively debate but I need Matt to answer this soon I have to play SeatleDV8 and we have a campaign going and he plays kitties.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Okay, from what I can make out here...

1. Defender chooses what order his defensive doobries work, unless otherwise stated (tractor beam). Want to use phasers before ADD, go ahead.

2. This is the first time ever that I have been asked to define what 'attack' means. It means... well, it means when you attack something, surely?

Okay, if you go to fire a weapon at someone, that is an attack. A hit is not an attack, it is something that can happen during an attack. Attacks can, of course, miss...

 

[storeylf]

So having read the thread you can't just give a straight answer to what has been discussed, rather than another uselessly vague comment?

Does an ADD throw the number of dice equal to the number of drones coming at you at the point you actually roll for it, or what was originally fired at you?

i.e. does it make any difference to shoot down drones with phasers first, so you can have less chance of running out your ADD.

 

[MarkDawg]

Yes please can you read the original post please thanks buddy.

 

[Stumonster]

Yes, the pivotal questions revolves around the Anti-Drone trait (ADD) and how many chances to get a 1 (and thus reduce ammo) are generated.

Example: 4 AD of droned fired from an Orion Salvage Cruiser at a Klingon D5W. The range is over 1/2, so the rolls to lock on (attack) are 2, 5, 5, 6. So, 3 of the 4 AD score a hit. The Klingon player allocates the 2 phaser 2's that bear on the Orion, the ADD, then the Tractors for defense. The two phaser 2's sore 1 hit and reduce the incoming attack dice to 2. Now comes the issue: Most people (including me) seem to say that the ADD would only roll 2 dice do intercept the remaining 2 AD of drones. Other say that since the original attack was 4 AD, that 4 dice must be rolled by the ADD, since the word 'Attack' is used in the description of the ADD trait, not 'hits'.

So . . . would it be roll 2 ADD rolls because that is what is still incoming, 3 ADD rolls because that is what originally locked on, or 4 because that is what was originally launched?

 

[Captain Jonah]

My half a credit is how many Drones are "attacking" at the point the ADD is fired.

Matt has said you fire ADDs, Drones or Phasers in the order you want with Tractors automatically last.

So if you have 4 Drones attacking you and fire Phasers first to shoot down two then when you fire ADDs there are two Drones attacking you.

Fire may be done at once but it represents a period of time. Star Fleet sensors track the incoming, they see Drones destroyed by fire and adjust accordingly.

IE. A BB fires 8 Drones at you from 36", 4 retain lock on. A friendly ship on IDF hits with a single Phaser leaving three Drones. If you then use your ADD you roll three dice because there are three drones attacking you at the point the ADD acts. The number of Drones attacking you is the current total after what ever factors have gone before.

 

[Stumonster]

I agree 100% Cpt. Jonah, but there are those who will not accept anything less than a ruling by Matt on this. I play this as only 2 rolls in my example. The sensors know that one drone did not lock, phasers do not get their kill zone modifiers for damage because they "fire long before that range", so I would say that the ADD is smart enough to stop tracking 'dead' drones and only fire at what gets through, i.e. 3 dice in your example.

 

[Rambler]

Yes it does deserve a written explanation. This question has now become the epitome of a Frequently Asked Question. If we let it go now with out a Offical Documented responce to point to we will be right back here in 3 months.

But from what I am gathering I have been playing not only Defensive Fire but Offensive Fire wrong. In the future i will simply nominate every weapon system on my attacking ship and then resolve each weapon type one line item at a time. Once I have inflicted enough damage I will transfer all remainig weapons to the next target. Wash, rinse, repeat. After alll if our computer are fast enough.to stop weapon fire Defensively it should be more than smart enough to do this Offensively as well right?

 

[archon96]

You cant do that, when you nominate a target even if it dies all weapons you nominated to it are still fired at it. keep in mind all weapon fire happens at the same time. So you have 6 drones coming in you blast 4 with phasers, the ADD system still thinks its shooting at 6 since they fire all at once. This is why i hold back phasers on anti drone until i burn out the ADD. Which getting a 4 drone fed ship to burn out ADD is insanly hard, the most ive seen one drop is down 2.

 

[storeylf]

I don't remember seeing anything saying you nominate which systems you will use to defend yourself, we've just played defensive fire as you choose a system (phasers, add, tractor) and roll it then you choose if you want to use another system (just that tractors are your last line). In attack you nominate everything then roll, but not defense that I can think if. Yet another vagueness of the rules?

 

[Rambler]

And that is the heart of the controversy. Does the act of firing use the same mechanic regardless if you are firing Offensively or Defensively? Is Defensive Fire a instantanious action of a group of actions all attacking all attack die at once that you resolve in a order you choose or, is it a series of Firing Opportunities that you get to evaluate how effective you are before commiting more resources to it.

EDIT: To be honest I do not care which way Mathew decided as long as it is documented in the FAQ and we are all playing with the same rule.

 

[MarkDawg]

Matthew buddy are you sure you can't be more clear in your take on this? Please read my original post and comment it would mean a lot to all of us mate.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Does an ADD throw the number of dice equal to the number of drones coming at you at the point you actually roll for it, or what was originally fired at you?

i.e. does it make any difference to shoot down drones with phasers first, so you can have less chance of running out your ADD.

I am not sure why you think you would ever roll more dice than you need to. If you have 6 drones incoming, and manage to shoot down 2, you then roll 4 dice for ADD. If one drone still gets through, then you can tractor it...

Or, use the ADD first, roll 6 dice for it and shoot down what remains - that is the choice the defending player has.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Does an ADD throw the number of dice equal to the number of drones coming at you at the point you actually roll for it, or what was originally fired at you?

i.e. does it make any difference to shoot down drones with phasers first, so you can have less chance of running out your ADD.

I am not sure why you think you would ever roll more dice than you need to. If you have 6 drones incoming, and manage to shoot down 2, you then roll 4 dice for ADD. If one drone still gets through, then you can tractor it...

Or, use the ADD first, roll 6 dice for it and shoot down what remains - that is the choice the defending player has.

Matt, Matt, Matt. :?

While you are answering the question your examples leave more confusion behind them. :roll:

An ADD rolls a dice for every Drone in the attack (that is to say every Drone attacking the ship at the point the ADD fires), every Drone is destroyed and if one or more of the ADD dice rolls a one then the ammo is reduced by ONE for the next attack.

In both of your examples the ADD would kill ALL the drones left at the point they acted even if doing so left them without ammo afterwards.

Example one you have 6 Drone incoming and shoot down two, the ADD will kill all four that remain, an ADD leaves nothing to tractor

Example two the ADD would kill all 6 Drones; there would be nothing to shoot at afterwards.

The only time you would have anything left after an ADD has fired would be where you deliberately held back the ADD to try and save ammo by only engaging some of the Drones not all of them. In your first example firing the ADD at three of the incoming Drones and using the ships tractors on the last one.

C-. Please re-submit this term paper for re-evaluation :wink:

 

[MongooseMatt]

The only time you would have anything left after an ADD has fired would be where you deliberately held back the ADD to try and save ammo by only engaging some of the Drones not all of them. In your first example firing the ADD at three of the incoming Drones and using the ships tractors on the last one.

You are, of course, quite right.

 

[storeylf]

I am not sure why you think you would ever roll more dice than you need to.

I didn't, but others read your rules otherwise, and to be fair they are vague in places.

 

[MarkDawg]

Thank you Matthew!

 

[Rambler]

Because the RAW do not state the Offensive and Defensive fire use to completly different mechanics. In Offensive Fire i must make a best guess about how much fire it will take to achieve my goal. If I over allocate fire to bad i simply overkill my target. Now you are saying that Defensive Fire is not a gamble about how much fire I need but actually is at least 10 seprate sub phases in which I am allowed to shoot a system evaluate its effect then pick another system shoot evaluate its fire untill I run out of Defensive Actions. Please write this up and stick it in the FAQ.

 

[McKinstry]

Thanks Matt!