E-Mine RAGE!

[H]

but then this is uber modern technology, why would they not have perfected firing systems (devils advocate)
JP's scatter as they are litteraly a rip in space with huge energy involved.

 

[Locutus9956]

Well to be fair I cant think of any other SPACE games that feature big AoE weapons that arent somewhat inacurate (AMTs in Full Thrust, Nova Cannons in BFG, Emines in B5Wars, etc etc)

And when all's said and done can you honestly say you dont think emines would feel more 'right' if they did loads of damage but werent that accurate?

 

[H]

but this isn't any of those other games...

I dunno, E-mines just get changed too often, it's damned frustrating if you play narn that your unique weapon is different every time you play a game!

 

[Locutus9956]

AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! No!!!! Not the 'This is ACTA, not x' argument PLEASE!

Im sorry but that's just holds no water whatsoever. If something is done differently in another game I'm not suggesting copying it just to be like that other game but if something is done differently in another game AND CLEARLY WORKS BETTER THAT WAY then saying 'ACTA is different, our rule is much stupider and we want it to STAY that way' is a little silly

I can appreciate that emines changing all the time is a pain in the as (god knows I can sympathise, 2 of my main fleets are ISA and Minbari and there have been how many versions of the Whitestar and stealth rules now? ) (not to mention the Warlock for my beloved Crusade EA) but surely if they havent got it 'right' yet then youd rather suffer another revision than just stick with the current bad version?

 

[H]

no, but who is to say that the next incarnation will be better anyway? and the argument about other games, who says it does work properly, this IS Acta, it is based upon a popular TV show, so things that work in other games won't work in this necesarily, and if they do work they may not fit the look at feel. Heck, If those other games were so great we would be playing them and wouldn't give a rats ass for how E-Mines work. Just because for some obscure reason no-one in the Warhammer universe has scanners that can tell them distances, shouldn't make the advanced sensors of the Narn not be able to place a mine where they want. just saying mind..

and damnit, I hope they set u pa stealth mechanism everyone can accept, without nerfing the Minbari, or anyone fighting them!

 

[Locutus9956]

no, but who is to say that the next incarnation will be better anyway? and the argument about other games, who says it does work properly, this IS Acta, it is based upon a popular TV show, so things that work in other games won't work in this necesarily, and if they do work they may not fit the look at feel.

In all fairness, Im not talking about one particular game Im talking about games in general, and even in other games BASED ON THE SAME TV SHOW, emines were not particularly accurate. Hell I even still enjoy BFG. In that case I DO prefer ACTAs rules system but even there I think BFG does some things much better (stealth for one thing, auxilliary craft for another (though I wouldnt like to see BFG's aux craft rules in ACTA, as it represents a different sort of fighter combat entirely).

Heck, If those other games were so great we would be playing them and wouldn't give a rats ass for how E-Mines work.

Well, erm, I DO play those other games, as much as I love ACTA I still prefer B5Wars and play it if time permits. And Full Thrust is a WAY WAY better game but its not B5 (If I could get my hands on a good set of B5 rules for full thrust I could well imagine ACTA getting shelved for me Im afraid)

and damnit, I hope they set u pa stealth mechanism everyone can accept, without nerfing the Minbari, or anyone fighting them!

I dont think you'll get any argument on this one from anyone except for maybe the beardiest of Minbari players who still think the standard SFoS Minbari were fair.....

 

[Burger]

I dont think you'll get any argument on this one from anyone except for maybe the beardiest of Minbari players who still think the standard SFoS Minbari were fair.....

Standard SFOS Minbari were fair! :lol:

 

[Johnny D]

Just because for some obscure reason no-one in the Warhammer universe has scanners that can tell them distances, shouldn't make the advanced sensors of the Narn not be able to place a mine where they want.

I agree with the above, If the Narn can hit a moving shadow ship with them they can't be that innaccurate. Plus if you have Mass drivers that don't scatter (and hardly seem that accurate a weapon) why should an energy mine?

 

[Locutus9956]

Mass drivers dont scatter true but they cant even FIRE at a moving target

And in all fairness its not hard to HIT a shadow ship coming straight for you.... hurting them is another matter

 

[animus]

What's the "Bat" fleet exactly?

 

[Tzarevitch]

Mass drivers dont scatter true but they cant even FIRE at a moving target

And in all fairness its not hard to HIT a shadow ship coming straight for you.... hurting them is another matter

Um . . . the point in space that you target with an e-mine isn't moving either. Not unless the weapons officer is drunk anyway.

Honestly I don't see why e-mines should scatter. That makes no sense. You are firing a weapon with a blast measured in kilometers at a stationary point in space. Other weapons miss their targets because the target is trying not to be hit. Space just sits there.

Tzarevitch

 

[Burger]

What's the "Bat" fleet exactly?

Lots of skirmish level ships, especially Ka'Toc and Ka'Tan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narn_Bat_Squad

 

[emperorpenguin]

What's the "Bat" fleet exactly?

Lots of skirmish level ships, especially Ka'Toc and Ka'Tan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narn_Bat_Squad

I don't trust the accuracy of anything on Wikipedia....... :wink:

 

[Triggy]

from all the g'quans carrying e-mines they never seem to hav them stored insdie, its always sitting on top at the front of the hull then released when they fire them.
Yes i think e-mines currently are too good but hopefully something is being done about them.
and yes Hash my centauri did beat the Narn bat squad, but it was bloody scary facing down so many AD of beams (nearly triple the number i had in beams).

Hey I'm just impressed - I've only ever beaten the bat squad once (and that was with a thoroughly broken fleet (Shadows) and a 'handicapped' bat squad as we used the old tourney list Narns (no Ka'Tans!) vs. uber Shadow Hunters x 2 + Scout)...guess any fleet can beat any other though if the dice gods are smiling on you

@ Locutus - I like the idea of saying e-mines scatter; it might alleviate problems with pin-point fighter clearance weapons (the number of times Reaverman has taken out a template to optimally place an e-mine so the 6 inch circle takes a maximum amount of ships makes my headache

As already mentioned the Abbai swarm didn't have too many difficulties with the Bat Squad - this is mainly based upon having huge numbers of initiative sinks to prevent the enemy lining anything up!

 

[thehod]

I have yet to exploit the weaknesses of the Narn Bat squad. I can handle the Centauri Beam team but the sheer # of beams the Bat squad comes in with and usually my weapons are at their deadly beam ranges. E-Mines ignore my dodge and make a mockery of Nials.

I dont know how the Narn could have lost to the shadows seeing if the ships performed in the show if they had ingame powers. Bat squads would destroy the First ones simple as that.

 

[Target]

We discovered our 3" template was actually 2.5" last weekend :lol:
We have been using it for about 2yrs now. It was quite hilarious.
What i don't like about e-mines mostly is the anihilation of fighters with them, since fighters were downgraded there is real need to pick on fighters like that. Been playin quite a few games with -2 to dodge, most fighters still die but atleast they have a chance.
Not really sure what you can do about e-mines as they are area effect, effect one ship they aren't so good, but many multiplies their effectivness.
It is the only weapon that ignores Stealth,Interceptors & Dodge & it does have that area effect thing as well + can have the varients.

 

[honestchad]

i just truely see them as overkill. I mean a bin'tak shooting e-mines at a bunch of fighters rolls 8 AD on each fighter! i mean come on! why not just say auto kill? And my narn adversary has the stones to say he likes playing the underdog.... :roll:

 

[Locutus9956]

Well it may as well be autokill vs Nials but what if your talking about T-Bolts or Pak fighters? They arent LIKELY to survive but they still COULD in theory. But I digress.

My point overall Tza is not that its hard to hit a spot at all. It's a gameplay mechanic, pure and simple to represent the fact that emines are NOT instant hit weapons like lasers and that enemy ships and fighters might move to avoid them. You arent just targeting a chunk of space with emines your trying to target a bit of space that IS effectively moving as your trying to hit where your enemies ships/fighters are going to be. Simply put because of the way firing and movement in ACTA is done its not practical to target your mines secretly before movement so the logical alternative is to make them less acurate when fired, simple as that really.

You have to appreciate the difference between a rule introduced to make the game work better that represents whats going on in a very abstract way rather than specifically trying to represent reality. 'Innacuracy' in emines is not representing ACTUAL inacuracy of the mines themselves but rather the targets abilities to change course!

 

[emperorpenguin]

it could also be that the exact time of explosion for the mine isn't controllable. that would effectively give you scatter, if it explodes +/- even 5 seconds from when you want it to, given the speed it travels at.

Also the energy mines which hit the shadows exploded in front of them, not directly on top where the energy would be greater in theory.

So it's not a bad idea at all.

 

[Hash]

It is the only weapon that ignores Stealth,Interceptors & Dodge & it does have that area effect thing as well + can have the varients.

Excellent point...or observation!

I agree with Locutus too, some form of "inaccuracy" or scatter would seem to fit the "feel" of e-mines a lot better and, as EP says, probably better fit in with how they were portrayed, albeit briefly, in the show.