Drazi Claweagle

katadder said:
easier to use a breaching pod wing - harder to hit, they have dodge and are SM. this ship has to actually contact an enemy using its standard turns and then win an opposed CQ check which is why it needed to be a 2fer as breaching pod wings are better in almost every way (slower but use Gaim ones as part of your league fleet, no negative to init and they got better drones) for taking down small ships.
Easier to use the 6 speed breaching pods? Also the Pods are dead as soon as you field them - either they are destroyed or they succeed in attaching and under current system are lost anyway (or they don't do anything and you've wasted the points). A Claweagle allows you to recover that ship and recrew it at a minimum cost. It may not be SM but it does have Agile for the close up and it has the benefit of being able to approach on APtE! (18") or CBD! (+33% resilience) or even RS! (+33% to +50% resilience) while ignoring fighters and AF systems. For campaigns it's beautiful for being able to (hopefully) recover it and only spending 1RR to retroop almost 3 Claweagles (versus 3RR to replace 4 Pods)

But it would make sense if they got that +1 to the OCQC for boarding. And I'm really surprised it doesn't have Dodge 5+.
 
Sulfurdown said:
...while ignoring fighters...

With only Hull 4 and no active or passive defences those 8 Damage points will be stripped real fast by any average fighter flight, let alone one of the 'bomber' types.
 
No. 1 Bear said:
So they should be escorted?
Regards,

Why waste an escort.

Well, it seems to be one heck of an assault boat. Why not make sure that it doesn't fall to something as avoidable as fighters. Send it in with a couple of stands of fighters (perhaps I should have specified fighter escort) who can then (assuming they survive) go off and do other things.
Regards,
 
Silvereye said:
Sulfurdown said:
...while ignoring fighters...
With only Hull 4 and no active or passive defences those 8 Damage points will be stripped real fast by any average fighter flight, let alone one of the 'bomber' types.
Point taken (though when I was looking at it I was looking at the Crew score of 5 (technically "6/1"). CBD should net it around a effective 7 points. Should have Dodge 5+ or potentially even Dodge 4+. I think they didn't include a Dodge score because then there would need to be special arbitration on which traits it can use whilst clamped.
 
David said:
Well, it seems to be one heck of an assault boat. Why not make sure that it doesn't fall to something as avoidable as fighters. Send it in with a couple of stands of fighters (perhaps I should have specified fighter escort) who can then (assuming they survive) go off and do other things.
Regards,

Good point however surely those points could be better spent on a good gunboat. As those ships will just get shredded. Especially agaisnt e mines but really any ship will wreck a claw eagle.
 
No. 1 Bear said:
David said:
Well, it seems to be one heck of an assault boat. Why not make sure that it doesn't fall to something as avoidable as fighters. Send it in with a couple of stands of fighters (perhaps I should have specified fighter escort) who can then (assuming they survive) go off and do other things.
Regards,

Good point however surely those points could be better spent on a good gunboat. As those ships will just get shredded. Especially agaisnt e mines but really any ship will wreck a claw eagle.
The double VP for secured ships though might come in handy.
 
No. 1 Bear said:
David said:
Well, it seems to be one heck of an assault boat. Why not make sure that it doesn't fall to something as avoidable as fighters. Send it in with a couple of stands of fighters (perhaps I should have specified fighter escort) who can then (assuming they survive) go off and do other things.
Regards,

Good point however surely those points could be better spent on a good gunboat. As those ships will just get shredded. Especially agaisnt e mines but really any ship will wreck a claw eagle.

Everything has its weaknesses. What works well in one game or against a certain opponent will crash and burn in another game or against another kind of opponent. What doesn't an e-mine hurt?
Regards,
 
it looks good on the drawing board, but....

Its one of those "nice try, needs better execution though" things. 6 Crew with Hull 4 is going to make you hate it. Sure its easier to use than a wing of Drop pods. But you only get 50% crew, and have one egg instead of 4. plus you do not have dodge.

Big ships surely have to fear this buggers when they get close, but that is the moment you are going to use your secondaries, and most ships will nearly overkill them with that :S.
 
Voronesh said:
it looks good on the drawing board, but....

Its one of those "nice try, needs better execution though" things. 6 Crew with Hull 4 is going to make you hate it. Sure its easier to use than a wing of Drop pods. But you only get 50% crew, and have one egg instead of 4. plus you do not have dodge.

Big ships surely have to fear this buggers when they get close, but that is the moment you are going to use your secondaries, and most ships will nearly overkill them with that :S.

I'm not saying that it would be a regular fleet component, but I can see where you could use it with good effect.
Regards,
 
I'd say it has a place in several situations, just not in an everyday fleet. I could see it working really well as an ally to another fleet. Can you imagine ISA using a jump point bombardment then having half a dozen of these thing flying out? Would probably be popular with raiders too. I love the idea and am seriously considering getting a Drazi fleet for no other reason than the claweagles.
 
Yes it can be useful in certain situations. Like a VCDs Lightning Cannon.

So currently it is hard to exactly place its value, but currently it looks like a 1e hyperion to me, too much potential, so the enemy simply cant ignore them, but not enough damage track to survive the attention.
 
Voronesh said:
Yes it can be useful in certain situations. Like a VCDs Lightning Cannon.

So currently it is hard to exactly place its value, but currently it looks like a 1e hyperion to me, too much potential, so the enemy simply cant ignore them, but not enough damage track to survive the attention.
That's something to consider as well. If it's such an 'easy target' and doesn't present a huge threat, chances are it will get ignored in favor of those ships with real guns. It's the archtype for the 'maneuver to avoid' style of play rather then the 'maneuver to fire' style and if you're opponent has a choice of turning to meet a handful of C/E or turning to meet the fleet of Warbirds. Who are they going to address? (not necessarily who *should* they address - but who are they generally *going* to?)
 
I'm reviving this thread, as my search0fu has not clarified for me just how the Claweagles work. Before I order a bunch of the little buggers, I figure I need to make sure my reading of the rule is right.
Please help with the questions below.

Their Boarding Rule starts with:
Boarding - The Claweagle may initiate a boarding action, simply by moving into contact with an enemy ship and succeeding in an opposed
Crew Quality test. If successful, it will stay in contact with the enemy ship until the Drazi player decides to release it in an End Phase. The
Calweagle may also fire its particle beams into the ship (but not at other targets while grappled).

The first sentence states that a QC check is done to initiate the boarding action - but this seems to be contradicted later (see below)
The one clear thing here is that if the Opposed QC check succeeds, they stay in contact with the enemy ship.
Does this merely mean they move as the target moves, no matter what?

Next it says:
While attached, the Claweagle may only be attacked by fighters or ships other than the one being grappled with weapons that also have the Accurate or Precise trait.

The lack of punctuation makes this unclear. Does this mean:
a) Cannot be attacked by the Target at all?
b) Can be attacked by Any Fighters?
c) Can it only be attacked by Fighters with Precise or Accurate Traits?

And now the last bit throws the first sentence into question..
Troops on board the Claweagle may automatically initiate a boarding action against any ship they are in contact with, as if they were using breaching pods.

Here it specifies that they may breach pod assault "any ship they are in contact with", not necessarily clamped to, and the previous QC check is not mentioned.
Does this mean that even if the QC check is failed, they may still Board as long as they're in contact by the end phase?

Here's the sample of how I think it works:
4 Claweagles stalk an Omega, and get into contact after the Omega has moved.
Only 2 of them beat the Omega in the QC check and clamp on.
The Omega fires at the other two, destroying one. It cannot shoot at the two who clamped on.
In the end phase, 3 Claweagles remain in contact, so all three may board the Omega as if using Breach Pods.

Now, if they Omega was still able to move when the Claweagle Squadron attached, the two clamped on would move with it (as if part of the Omega model), and the other two Claweagles would get left behind.

So in general, Claweagles in contact can always Board. But if they fail their QC check and don't clamp on, there are two penalties:
-- They can be shot at freely by the target or any other ship
-- They can be left behind if the target still can move later that turn.

Have I got that about right?

Thanks!
Dale
 
greenboy said:
That reading of the rules would certainly make them more useful.

Even then I'm still debating their utility. But if they can't do the Breach Pod boarding at all without making the QC check, then they're utterly naff.
 
When they make contact, they make the opposed CQ check.
If the Claweagle wins the CQ check:
  • They are moved with the target ship if it hasn't moved yet, and moved with it in future turns until you declare that it is releasing its grip in an end phase
  • The target ship may not shoot the Claweagle
  • Any enemy fighters (in range of course) may attack the Claweagle
  • Other ships may only attack the Claweagle with weapons that are Accurate or Precise
  • The Claweagle can fire its weapons at the attached ship, but not at other targets
  • The Claweagle may automatically initiate a boarding action in the end phase, resolved as though it were breaching pods (ie. attacker rolls first when defeating enemy troops)
  • If the target ship has atmospheic trait and enters the atmosphere, the Claweagle will remain attached with it. However if it releases grip in atmosphere, the Claweagle will crash and burn
If the Claweagle loses:
  • The Claweagle does not follow the target ship if it moves
  • The Claweagle may be shot by any enemy ships as normal
  • The Claweagle may not unload its troops automatically
  • The Claweagle may still perform a standard boarding action if the criteria are met, since grappling is not a special action

Your interpretation, although creative, does take the wording out of context and against the intent of the rules. This does mean the Claweagle is not really very good, IMO. They should definitely get the Drazi's Aggression bonus for the CQ check, and should either have more troops or be twofers. Although, they do make an excellent distraction and scare the opponent much more than they should.
 
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