Do you change rules for purposes of Canon???

[Arcadia]

I certainly appreaciate your point, but surely it is a mechanism that should at least be reviewed, severla ships have "incorect" firing arcs if we are to use the show as reference.

That’s the idea, Hiffano, a special trait not for all ship. Make it a trait fore easy use, no extra particular rules.

And the idea is also to help some boresigth ships, they lose AD to get the F arc not to boost Fore Arc ships by making a boresigth.

Arcadia.

 

[Target]

Your Weapon stat line read something like this
Primus
Battle Laser Fwd 25" 6AD SAP, DD, Beam

Omega
Heavy Laser Fwd 30" 2AD SAP, DD, Beam, Boresight

I quite like this idea, might try & play tonight to see how it goes.
Which way would you round for the likes of G'Quan would be 1 dice fwd or 2 fwd ?

 

[katadder]

if they get rid of boresights I am fine with that. anything that goes foreward arc would have to lose AD, so a hyperion would be 2AD but fore arc.
however I am not for doubling up if you get boresight. this gives the younger races far more flexibility than the older ones. as i pointed out a teshlan only has 2AD foreward arc. most the centauri ships at raid are the same (not counting prefect which is going and sullust which is specialist ship much like the olympus gunship).
so 2AD at raid is around the average for a beam in the fore arc. no doubling up on anybody, or doubling up for all, and do you want a 4AD teshlan shooting you? doubt it.

 

[captainsmirk]

I wouldn't actually use this rule for the G'Quan just give the G'Quan a forward arc, since both of its beams are shown as being fully capable of firing through the same arc, since they never fire alone, unlike the Omega or Hyperion.


Nick

 

[H]

I wouldn't actually use this rule for the G'Quan just give the G'Quan a forward arc, since both of its beams are shown as being fully capable of firing through the same arc, since they never fire alone, unlike the Omega or Hyperion.


Nick

been their, tried to get the arc forward, heck if we use canon it would have 2 beams as well (although we could say it has 2 1.5ad beams and we lump em together

 

[captainsmirk]

Well since they always seem to fire together that would make sense...


Nick

 

[Locutus9956]

Stop me if Im wrong here but in 'And now for a word' (I think that was the episode) When the G'Quan fires on the Primus Im SURE if fires only ONE laser (at a very VERY NON-boresight angle but thats another issue )

 

[Greg Smith]

I think you are right, Locutus.

 

[Silvereye]

If you give half the number of AD in the forward arc to Boresight BEams, would you do the same for B(a) beams? Also, would F and A arc vbeams be able to trade down to B or B(a) arcs and get double the dice?

Depending on the ship, yes. Certainly only Omega, Hyperion, Bin'Tak and Ka'Bin'Tak spring to mind as having Boresight (aft).

Would it be so bad if all ships could do it ?

Yes it could be, and there is no need for many weapons to have the trait. Some ships already have a good set of Beams (e.g. Tinashi, Primus etc) in the fore arc, why would they limit themselves to a reduced fore arc and a boresight.

Just thought of the Ka Toc so the trait would have to be listed in weapon traits not traits section.

The Ka'Tocs Mag Gun is actually a 1AD foreward arc, so does not need to consider the Boresight trait and is therefore not an issue. The only effect it might have would be with the 2 AD Heavy Laser system, if this was indeed deemed to be worth changing.

thing is the teshlan only get a 2AD beam, and thats deemed enough for a raid level ship in the forward arc. a hyperion matching this unless it gets boresight in which case it doubles is a bit much IMO. it puts the EA on par with the minbari ships at a far earlier age than they should be. do you really want to face a 4AD boresight precise beam from a teshlan? or an 8AD one from a tinashi?

The Minbari are a bad example, due to both their Stealth and Precise Beams inflating the value of the ship. You'd be better comparing the Boresight ships to the Centauri. For example the Centurion is a 3AD Foreward Beam, Sullust is 4.
Also, the way the Boresight trait is being considered there is a reduction in AD to move from the Boresight arc to the Fore arc with a Boresight trait. Not just add it to a foreward arc. Basically it is just to allow SOME ships with Boresight weaponry to fire in a fore arc, with reduced dice. I'd certainly advise against giving it to every ship witha boresight.

And the idea is also to help some boresigth ships, they lose AD to get the F arc not to boost Fore Arc ships by making a boresigth.

Exactly.

I quite like this idea, might try & play tonight to see how it goes.
Which way would you round for the likes of G'Quan would be 1 dice fwd or 2 fwd ?

I'd round it up to 2AD (4 while boresighting). The 3AD was always a bit feeble anyway. I'd also recomend not loading a G'Quan with Shipbreakers as these tend to significantly overwhelm the lasers general effectiveness.

The other thing to note is that CAF could be used while firing in the Fore arc. Would it be worth noting that the Boresight special cannot be CAFed? Or should CAFing be allowed?

however I am not for doubling up if you get boresight. this gives the younger races far more flexibility than the older ones. as i pointed out a teshlan only has 2AD foreward arc. most the centauri ships at raid are the same (not counting prefect which is going and sullust which is specialist ship much like the olympus gunship).
so 2AD at raid is around the average for a beam in the fore arc. no doubling up on anybody, or doubling up for all, and do you want a 4AD teshlan shooting you? doubt it.

It should not be doubling up, it should only be halfing down. I'd also argue that 2-3AD is the Raid beam average. Depending on Range, the other weaponry on the ship, and the other Beam specials.

 

[katadder]

the centurion has a 2AD beam. the sullust is 4AD but tehn the olympus gunship is 6AD.
sorry but it is doubling up. the centauri as an example have on average 2AD beams across the raid ships not including the specialist sullust or the soon to be gone prefect. the centurion, dargan and magnus are all 2AD.

thats about an average for a front arc beam. so a you want a hyperion to get this average and double up when boresighted? well i want that on my centauri ships, my minbari etc etc.
they have the AD they do on things like hyperions to make up for the fact they can only boresight. if you give them flexibility then that AD on the boresight also has to come down. basically it wont work the direction you want to go. the only way to remove boresight IMO is to remove it entirely and reduce ADs accordingly, so the hyperion would be a 2AD front arc laser etc etc.

 

[Silvereye]

This is why I think it would be very bad if every ship can do it. Personally, I like the massively overgunned Hyperion as it is (but a bit more damage would be nice ).

Currently I would mainly consider it for some of those ships at battle and above.

 

[Burger]

How about allowing B weapons to fire in the F arc, if they use half of their AD's (rounding down)? Call it a glancing blow, fired off as the ship manouvers.

 

[Silvereye]

I think that was the original idea. However as Kattader points out, it just brings some boresight ships down to the beam average. With the special trait, you can just apply it to selected ships/weapon systems.

 

[katadder]

I dont mind if the narns/EA lose boresight beams, but their AD must come down then too.
I am not however in favour of ships getting enough flexibility to be on the average beam dice in front arc and double it if they get boresighted.
boresight isnt that hard to get done and is a game mechanic i would prefer to see left in myself.
I have taken a 5 hyperion fleet against a combined league fleet and they did fine. yes i couldnt always shoot the best target, but with multiple 4AD beams shooting at ships the league soon lost its init sinks and gave me better targets for my boresights.

 

[Burger]

Well katadder's examples are completely flawed. You can't just ignore the Sulust because it has higher than average beam dice, that is like saying the average temperature in the UK is 30 degrees, if you ignore all the times that it is less than 30 degrees. Saying the Prefect is disappearing is irrelevant. If we're talking about 1e then it still exists. If talking about 2e then the entire Centauri changes anyway so all comparisons are null and void.

Average AD on Centauri Raid beam-equipped ship, is 2.6.

 

[katadder]

not ignoring the sullust, but it doesnt fall into the beam averages does it? so its a one off case. much like the olympus gunship this ship would get a 3AD forward arc beam by your ideas. hell lets have an 8AD boresight sullust, it can match the omega command ships laser then.
yes things are changing in 2e but that doesnt change the fact that 2AD foreward with a 4AD boresigt is tactically more flexible. if you can do that with a hyperion then I want to do it with a teshlan, as its guns are probably either side of the hull.
vote 4AD teshlan beams

 

[Burger]

not ignoring the sullust, but it doesnt fall into the beam averages does it?

It affects the mean.

 

[Burger]

if you can do that with a hyperion then I want to do it with a teshlan, as its guns are probably either side of the hull.

Don't be ridiculous. Well if I use your arguement then I want Stealth 4+ on a Hyperion, because the Teshlan has it. In fact lets make all the ships the same shall we?

 

[Silvereye]

boresight isnt that hard to get done and is a game mechanic i would prefer to see left in myself.

Agreed. The Boresight is a good mechanic that adds a lot of distinct flavour to fleets.

However, the ships that I think the trait potentially appropriate for are:
EA Omega, EA Command Omega, perhaps the EA Orestes for its Medium Lasers only, Narn G'Quan (and variants), Narn Var'Nic, Narn Bin'Tak (and the Armageddon ships), Brakiri Brocados.

 

[katadder]

if you can do that with a hyperion then I want to do it with a teshlan, as its guns are probably either side of the hull.

Don't be ridiculous. Well if I use your arguement then I want Stealth 4+ on a Hyperion, because the Teshlan has it. In fact lets make all the ships the same shall we?

not being rediculous, if a EA ship around in the E-M war has the tactical flexibility to have the same AD of beams forearc as a teshlan but doubel boresighted then theres no reason a teshlan cannot do the same thing.
the teshlan has beams which is where this comes from, the hyperion doesnt have stealth.
giving this sort of tactical flexibility to the younger races is the ridiculous idea as it makes them better then the supposedly more advanced races.