Discipline skill?
- Thread starter Lyrell'e
- Start date
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
What did it do?
Grognardia
Cosmic Mongoose
Terry Mixon
Emperor Mongoose
Thanks.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
It got dropped.
The skill was designed to prevent suppressive fire and was very cinematic /'gun fu' in practice. Very 'Rambo', if you take my meaning.
There is a long discussion with ground force veterans about this skill and others like it. It's seen as not very realistic in a genre with plasma guns by some folks and very heroic by others.
What I do is somewhat similar to the old Striker Morale statistic. Modifying it for MgT2e it looks like this:
- Base Morale is 5. Everyone gets this.
- Add one for a career Basic Training that includes Gun or Melee skill.
- Add one for every term in a career where combat occurs on the Events table
- SUBTRACT one for every time the character is injured or wounded in combat on either the Event or Mishaps tables
- Add one for every level of Tactics the character has
- Add half the Leadership skill of the highest skill level present in the party/team/squad.
In play, it works like this:
When called for by the referee, roll 2d for under your Morale. If successful, the character can act normally in this combat round. If failed, the character will take cover. The character can return fire from cover if possible, but will not move from out of cover until they make a Morale roll in subsequent rounds. If you roll a 12, you are stunned and can take NO action this round... if you're in the open, you stay there, if you're in cover you hunker down and stay there.
The skill was designed to prevent suppressive fire and was very cinematic /'gun fu' in practice. Very 'Rambo', if you take my meaning.
There is a long discussion with ground force veterans about this skill and others like it. It's seen as not very realistic in a genre with plasma guns by some folks and very heroic by others.
What I do is somewhat similar to the old Striker Morale statistic. Modifying it for MgT2e it looks like this:
- Base Morale is 5. Everyone gets this.
- Add one for a career Basic Training that includes Gun or Melee skill.
- Add one for every term in a career where combat occurs on the Events table
- SUBTRACT one for every time the character is injured or wounded in combat on either the Event or Mishaps tables
- Add one for every level of Tactics the character has
- Add half the Leadership skill of the highest skill level present in the party/team/squad.
In play, it works like this:
When called for by the referee, roll 2d for under your Morale. If successful, the character can act normally in this combat round. If failed, the character will take cover. The character can return fire from cover if possible, but will not move from out of cover until they make a Morale roll in subsequent rounds. If you roll a 12, you are stunned and can take NO action this round... if you're in the open, you stay there, if you're in cover you hunker down and stay there.
Last edited:
-Daniel-
Emperor Mongoose
Just to clarify, any injury or those caused by combat?
If my character was injured by a car wreck would they still subtract 1?
Regardless, nice idea. If I want to force the players to a level of realistic reaction to being shot at, I like your system.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
So, I'm looking at this from two angles... one is just as a gamer and the other as a veteran.
I think for game balance and ease of play, let's just say 'wounded in a combat situation'.
Also, I intend that for both the Event Table and the Mishap Table as well.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Here is a cut-and-paste of the corrections, for those interested.
COMBAT MORALE:
Compute Morale as follows:
- Base Morale is 5. Everyone gets this.
- Add one for a career Basic Training that includes Gun or Melee skill.
- Add one for every term in a career where combat occurs on the Events table
- SUBTRACT one for every time the character is injured or wounded in combat via either the Event or Mishaps tables
- Add one for every level of Tactics [Military] the character has
- Add half the Leadership skill of the highest skill level present in the party/team/squad.
In play, it works like this:
When called for by the referee, roll 2d for under your Morale. If successful, the character can act normally in this combat round. If failed, the character will take cover. The character can return fire from cover if possible, but will not move from out of cover until they make a Morale roll in subsequent rounds. If you roll a 12, you are stunned and can take NO action this round... if you're in the open, you stay there, if you're in cover you hunker down and stay there.
COMBAT MORALE:
Compute Morale as follows:
- Base Morale is 5. Everyone gets this.
- Add one for a career Basic Training that includes Gun or Melee skill.
- Add one for every term in a career where combat occurs on the Events table
- SUBTRACT one for every time the character is injured or wounded in combat via either the Event or Mishaps tables
- Add one for every level of Tactics [Military] the character has
- Add half the Leadership skill of the highest skill level present in the party/team/squad.
In play, it works like this:
When called for by the referee, roll 2d for under your Morale. If successful, the character can act normally in this combat round. If failed, the character will take cover. The character can return fire from cover if possible, but will not move from out of cover until they make a Morale roll in subsequent rounds. If you roll a 12, you are stunned and can take NO action this round... if you're in the open, you stay there, if you're in cover you hunker down and stay there.
Geir
Emperor Mongoose
It's an interesting idea, and well laid out and I would certainly use it for a solo campaign, but for players, I guess it depends on how much they're into actual role-playing versus game mechanics.
Different game, but I once had a brigand character, who in the middle of a campaign decided: "This is stupid. There's no treasure on this quest and we're probably all going to get killed." So he ran away and didn't come back. (They didn't all get killed, but it was more a 'save the world' sort of thing than a treasure reward and there were causalities and whole villages wiped out along the way.)
Maybe not the most useful example, but the morale roll isn't something I would want to substitute for the role role, if you get my drift. Now some players, you might HAVE to force that mechanic on them (or use more lethal encounters), but that's a bit less fun in my book.
(And just one thing, having only been shot at once and once minorly stabbed*, but maybe the wound thing could go either way from PTSD to 'What? You can't scare me with that. I already had the other leg blown off (it got better)' - so maybe a 1D-4 (a bit severe - D3-2 ? 2D3-4?) for the wounded Event or Mishap might be more appropriate. )
*Life Lessons: #1 In a knife fight, it helps to have the knife. #2 Drummers have really strong fingers; you're not going to get him to let go. (And somewhat related: #2a Don't sublet your apartment to a guy who stopped taking his lithium.)
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
1. In a knife fight, it helps to have a gun, and sufficient distance between you and the guy with a knife.
2. Sounds like the suicidal guy a coworker tried to escort to a nurse... by the arm that was not holding the razor blade... and he wouldn't listen to me telling him the situation, while I tried to secure the other arm and pry the fingers apart - WHILE the bigger coworker was dragging both of us to the nurse.
3. Better yet, don't sublet to someone on lithium, then you don't have to worry about them going off it. (I know... who volunteers that information up front?)
2. Sounds like the suicidal guy a coworker tried to escort to a nurse... by the arm that was not holding the razor blade... and he wouldn't listen to me telling him the situation, while I tried to secure the other arm and pry the fingers apart - WHILE the bigger coworker was dragging both of us to the nurse.
3. Better yet, don't sublet to someone on lithium, then you don't have to worry about them going off it. (I know... who volunteers that information up front?)
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
The basic idea was to have an easily understood mechanic that quickly deals with concepts like suppression fire, coolness under fire, OODA, and other such concepts that appear in other games. And in Traveller, these concepts were handled pretty haphazardly in various editions.
What I was trying to do was have a simple system to handle both the reality of fear in combat while still maintaining player agency over their characters.
I keep certain standards about when to call for rolls. Examples include:
- Party member gets wounded
- Party member get KO'd
- Every two allies getting KO'd
- Clear firepower advantage
And so on.
The logic is: Even John Wayne takes cover and nobody wants to get shot.
What I was trying to do was have a simple system to handle both the reality of fear in combat while still maintaining player agency over their characters.
I keep certain standards about when to call for rolls. Examples include:
- Party member gets wounded
- Party member get KO'd
- Every two allies getting KO'd
- Clear firepower advantage
And so on.
The logic is: Even John Wayne takes cover and nobody wants to get shot.
That even makes more sense on Naval starships. Loss of discipline and crew integrity can get a ship vaporized. I mention combat starships since it was first mentioned (AFAIK) in 1e High Guard. But it works for any military situation or unit.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Well, there's a lot of differences too...
I agree that some sort or Crew Quality mechanic needs to be worked out... it takes a lot of discipline to keep working your damage control station instead of bugging out for a safer spot, after all... But I think that the one I've worked out here may not work well in a naval situation.
I'll think on it some and get back with a possible work up.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
Keep in mind that if people are at damage control stations, all compartment accesses are going to be sealed to limit any depressurizations. At a higher tech than today's, those doors are going to be remotely sealed so that permission from the bridge/command center is needed to get a hatch/iris valve open. So the places for such a person to hide, once on station, are limited.
Basically, if you don't get sucked out of a hole, you need to work with the team to patch that hole so you can get permission to evacuate the area without voiding the next compartment.
Basically, if you don't get sucked out of a hole, you need to work with the team to patch that hole so you can get permission to evacuate the area without voiding the next compartment.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Sgt Rocksoff "Ok Jim, see that nazi MG nest overlooking the hill? It'll mow down our boys. I want you to take these two grenades, run at the nest and off those nazis"
PC Jim, "yes sarge - all I have to do is is roll a new toon, charge"
recruit JIm - <rapid mg fire>, Sarge, "ok next"
regular jim - sod off do it yourself
veteran jim - sneaks off to flank the nest, next seen on a beach in Tehuana some years later
elite jim - calls up mortar team and shoots sarge.
One of the problems in rpgs is players not liking morale rules applying to their character. I've seen the four tier (above) used, I've seen coolness under fire, I've seen stress tracks.
PC Jim, "yes sarge - all I have to do is is roll a new toon, charge"
recruit JIm - <rapid mg fire>, Sarge, "ok next"
regular jim - sod off do it yourself
veteran jim - sneaks off to flank the nest, next seen on a beach in Tehuana some years later
elite jim - calls up mortar team and shoots sarge.
One of the problems in rpgs is players not liking morale rules applying to their character. I've seen the four tier (above) used, I've seen coolness under fire, I've seen stress tracks.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
There is some synchronicity between drives, emotions, ethics, and training.
The expectation is that orders given are carried out, though stuff like morale, skill, intelligence, experience, will effect as to how they are carried out.
Malicious compliance does occur.
The expectation is that orders given are carried out, though stuff like morale, skill, intelligence, experience, will effect as to how they are carried out.
Malicious compliance does occur.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
Fair point. I will comment that I think the Damage Control Center aboard ship might take many of those permissions functions so that the bridge crew and fight the ship, but that really is minor.
I still maintain that the drives crew has zero idea what the over all tactical situation is beyond simply 'More power!!!' orders from the bridge.
My point is that naval combat is fundamentally different than ground combat. While their goals are largely the same, the methods they use to achieve those goals within a ship's company and combat arms battalion are apples and oranges. This is why I think my simple morale table may not work well in a naval battle.
ottarrus
Emperor Mongoose
I see your point here, Sig. I think my system strikes a good balance between player agency and 'Rambo'-style non-tactical games. One of the reasons why I use this system is to give players a chance to learn that combat in Traveller isn't some d20 'warm up fight'. I'd rather the PCs learn that cover is their friend before I have to kill one of them just to prove the point. I'm not afraid of killing a PC, but it's been my experience that if you do that in the very first firefight you'll never see that player again.
