We finally finished up Slaver’s Caravan last night, and are starting a new adventure. During the session, one player was complaining loudly about being "railroaded" and that “This would never happen.” Let me give you the details, and then you decide.
As detailed in Slaver’s Caravan, the party was informed by a caravan guard they saved that they were about to be double crossed. As I expected, they ignored his advice to escape, and instead ambushed their would be slavers before they could be double crossed. Their plan was excellent, and went really well. They easily defeated the caravan guards and the men sent from the salt mines to collect them. The merchant, Hadramas, escaped, and everyone else was killed but Hadramas’s slaves, the caravan drivers (non-combatants), the guard who informed them of the double cross (I named him Jonas),and one of the men from salt mines who they let live. They decided to take the caravan to Athos where they would sell the goods, including the slaves, and then return to Messantia (where the adventure started) to search for Hadramas.
Meanwhile, Hadramas, who I had made a sorcerer, used divination to learn that a battalion of 100 armed knights have been given orders by King Milo to hunt down bandits that have been harassing caravans in the area. (The PCs encountered these bandits earlier in the adventure.) He found the battalion quickly (pretty easy to do since he can shape change into an eagle, had knowledge of their location via divinations, and they were in the area already). Hadramas tells the knights that some new caravan guards he hired turned on him, slaughtering his regulars, and stealing his caravan. He barely escaped with his life. They immediately turn in the direction he points, and follow the PCs.
A week after the PCs took the caravan, as they are nearing Athos, they are overtaken by the Knights. The knights approach the caravan, and ask for their names. They give them. The commanding officer makes a signal for Hadramas, hiding behind all the men, to identify them as the thieves. He does. The knights surround the caravan and pull out bows. While this happens, one of the PCs spots Hadramas and charges out after him. He’s made into a pin cushion, and falls dead. The commanding officer calls out that they are under arrest, that they are to put down all weapons and climb off the caravan. Another PC refuses. The knights move in to force him to comply. He pulls a sword and attacks. He’s chopped down, falls unconscious, but lives. The rest submit to being bound.
The knights do a little investigation on the spot, questioning everyone. The PCs tell them their side, with no lies. The slaves and caravan drivers all give their side, with no lies, which confirms Hadramas's story. They saw the PCs plan an ambush, slit as many caravan guard throats as they could while they slept, and when they awoke and raised the alarm, they cut them all down. When asked about the sorcery the PCs spoke of from Hadramas, they say “No, we saw no sorcery from Hadramas. But we did see that Pict Shaman (a PC) casting spells.” Keep in mind sorcery is illegal in Argos. Keep in mind every word they are saying is true. Even if put to the rack, forced to tell the truth, this is what would come out. They asked the guard from the salt mine his story. He said he was there to buy slaves from Hadramas. Again, this is true. Hadramas says “Yes, I was to sell him these slaves” And points to his collection of legitimate slaves. This is not true, he was going to sell him the PCs, but this is the only lie spoke as the NPCs gave their testimony, and it was buy a major villain sorcerer NPC.
The PCs are taken back to Messantia, in manacles, to be tried. Jonas dies on the road there from a mysterious illness. :twisted: There, all of this testimony is drawn out again, and the PCs are convicted of murder, theft, and sorcery. They are sentenced to death. (They are to be fed to lions in the Arena. This of course leads into the next adventure.)
So there are the details. Here are the complaints:
* We were railroaded. From the time Hadramas escaped, no matter what we did we would be hunted down. We had no options.
Umm, no, you had options. Were the good options limited? Yes. Go out and kill 10 people right now, and leave witnesses. From the point, you have many, many options. True, many of them are not good options. Many of them will lead to you being arrested. Once you’re wanted in a land, you’ve given up the option of continuing about your daily life with out getting arrested. Your options are pretty much 1) go somewhere that you’re not wanted, 2) go into hiding, 3) go incognito. (Come to think of it, options 1 and 3 are just variants of option 2.) Anyway, those are your options. Yes, pretty much any other option means you get harassed by the law. Is that railroading?
* But we were defending ourselves! We didn’t murder them!
Were you? One guy told you that they were going to betray you, and then you start slitting throats while they slept. “But then they pulled swords and attacked us!” Come on now, you were trying to kill them! They were defending themselves, not the other way around!
Besides, even if it were true that you were defending yourself, all the witness didn’t see it that way, and their testimony reflected that. If you testify that you didn't kill someone and several witness testify that you did, you're not going to like the results.
* But we’re not Bandits! The Knights were looking for bandits, which we clearly were not!
What’s your definition of bandit? It says here that it’s a robber: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bandit They robbed Hadramas, so how does this not apply? Were they traditional caravan bandits? No. Were they the bandits the knights set out to find, the ones that caused the order to be made by the king? No. Does any of that matter? Not that I can see.
* How could they find us so quickly? They never could have caught up.
First of all, Hadramas is a sorcerer. He can do things not possible with out magic, namely fly and use divinations. He knew where they were going. And even without magic, how hard is it to track a caravan moving down major roads? At any cross roads you ask which way the caravan went, and major cross roads would be very rare. Most roads encountered would be country trails that would be extremely unlikely choices.
* But we had a head start! There is no way they could have caught us. 100 armed men on horseback can not move faster than a caravan moving down a road.
This one I honestly don’t know. Is that a legitimate complaint? My defense was the knights were pushing it, because they were hot on the trail. The players replied back that they too were pushing it, which I called bull shit on. Never once did they say they were moving any faster than normal, and if you don’t say it, the assumption is you follow normal operating procedure, i.e. you move at normal speeds. It did take the knights a week to catch up. It wasn’t like they caught them the next day. It seemed reasonable to me, but perhaps this was not realistic. In my opinion, if I was wrong here it was a pretty minor offense.
* The knights would not have arrested us. At that point, it was Hadramas word verses ours. They would have questioned us and had a mini trial on the side of the road before deciding whether or not to take us into custody.
Hadramas is a well known merchant in Messantia, and was known by at least some of the knights (most of which were nobles). They’re out looking for bandits, and would rather be home drinking wine and chasing tail in their villas. They do not like this assignment, which is taking too long. Hadramas shows up in dirty torn clothes pleading his case. They jump at the chance to finally do something. If this isn’t good enough for you, then write it off as a case of Hadramas, being a sorcerer, charming the pants off the commanding officer. I mean come on, sorcerers in Conan make people jump when they say “boo”, and that’s if they haven’t made them an outright puppet with their arcane skills. Point is it didn’t seem like a stretch that the knights would take Hadramas' word.
Anyway, I don’t see how it’s not beside the point. The knights did in fact have a mini trial on the side of the road, questioning everyone, and then they determined the PCs were to be taken back to Messantia to be tried. The fact that they stated “You’re under arrest” before this is splitting hairs. They had a mini trial. Significantly more people backed Hadramas' story. And they were arrested. Whether they said “You’re under arrest” before or after the questioning, the end result is the same, so does it matter? In my opinion, if this is an offense on my part as a GM, it’s a minor one.
So that’s the long and the short of it. Am I off base?
As detailed in Slaver’s Caravan, the party was informed by a caravan guard they saved that they were about to be double crossed. As I expected, they ignored his advice to escape, and instead ambushed their would be slavers before they could be double crossed. Their plan was excellent, and went really well. They easily defeated the caravan guards and the men sent from the salt mines to collect them. The merchant, Hadramas, escaped, and everyone else was killed but Hadramas’s slaves, the caravan drivers (non-combatants), the guard who informed them of the double cross (I named him Jonas),and one of the men from salt mines who they let live. They decided to take the caravan to Athos where they would sell the goods, including the slaves, and then return to Messantia (where the adventure started) to search for Hadramas.
Meanwhile, Hadramas, who I had made a sorcerer, used divination to learn that a battalion of 100 armed knights have been given orders by King Milo to hunt down bandits that have been harassing caravans in the area. (The PCs encountered these bandits earlier in the adventure.) He found the battalion quickly (pretty easy to do since he can shape change into an eagle, had knowledge of their location via divinations, and they were in the area already). Hadramas tells the knights that some new caravan guards he hired turned on him, slaughtering his regulars, and stealing his caravan. He barely escaped with his life. They immediately turn in the direction he points, and follow the PCs.
A week after the PCs took the caravan, as they are nearing Athos, they are overtaken by the Knights. The knights approach the caravan, and ask for their names. They give them. The commanding officer makes a signal for Hadramas, hiding behind all the men, to identify them as the thieves. He does. The knights surround the caravan and pull out bows. While this happens, one of the PCs spots Hadramas and charges out after him. He’s made into a pin cushion, and falls dead. The commanding officer calls out that they are under arrest, that they are to put down all weapons and climb off the caravan. Another PC refuses. The knights move in to force him to comply. He pulls a sword and attacks. He’s chopped down, falls unconscious, but lives. The rest submit to being bound.
The knights do a little investigation on the spot, questioning everyone. The PCs tell them their side, with no lies. The slaves and caravan drivers all give their side, with no lies, which confirms Hadramas's story. They saw the PCs plan an ambush, slit as many caravan guard throats as they could while they slept, and when they awoke and raised the alarm, they cut them all down. When asked about the sorcery the PCs spoke of from Hadramas, they say “No, we saw no sorcery from Hadramas. But we did see that Pict Shaman (a PC) casting spells.” Keep in mind sorcery is illegal in Argos. Keep in mind every word they are saying is true. Even if put to the rack, forced to tell the truth, this is what would come out. They asked the guard from the salt mine his story. He said he was there to buy slaves from Hadramas. Again, this is true. Hadramas says “Yes, I was to sell him these slaves” And points to his collection of legitimate slaves. This is not true, he was going to sell him the PCs, but this is the only lie spoke as the NPCs gave their testimony, and it was buy a major villain sorcerer NPC.
The PCs are taken back to Messantia, in manacles, to be tried. Jonas dies on the road there from a mysterious illness. :twisted: There, all of this testimony is drawn out again, and the PCs are convicted of murder, theft, and sorcery. They are sentenced to death. (They are to be fed to lions in the Arena. This of course leads into the next adventure.)
So there are the details. Here are the complaints:
* We were railroaded. From the time Hadramas escaped, no matter what we did we would be hunted down. We had no options.
Umm, no, you had options. Were the good options limited? Yes. Go out and kill 10 people right now, and leave witnesses. From the point, you have many, many options. True, many of them are not good options. Many of them will lead to you being arrested. Once you’re wanted in a land, you’ve given up the option of continuing about your daily life with out getting arrested. Your options are pretty much 1) go somewhere that you’re not wanted, 2) go into hiding, 3) go incognito. (Come to think of it, options 1 and 3 are just variants of option 2.) Anyway, those are your options. Yes, pretty much any other option means you get harassed by the law. Is that railroading?
* But we were defending ourselves! We didn’t murder them!
Were you? One guy told you that they were going to betray you, and then you start slitting throats while they slept. “But then they pulled swords and attacked us!” Come on now, you were trying to kill them! They were defending themselves, not the other way around!
Besides, even if it were true that you were defending yourself, all the witness didn’t see it that way, and their testimony reflected that. If you testify that you didn't kill someone and several witness testify that you did, you're not going to like the results.
* But we’re not Bandits! The Knights were looking for bandits, which we clearly were not!
What’s your definition of bandit? It says here that it’s a robber: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=bandit They robbed Hadramas, so how does this not apply? Were they traditional caravan bandits? No. Were they the bandits the knights set out to find, the ones that caused the order to be made by the king? No. Does any of that matter? Not that I can see.
* How could they find us so quickly? They never could have caught up.
First of all, Hadramas is a sorcerer. He can do things not possible with out magic, namely fly and use divinations. He knew where they were going. And even without magic, how hard is it to track a caravan moving down major roads? At any cross roads you ask which way the caravan went, and major cross roads would be very rare. Most roads encountered would be country trails that would be extremely unlikely choices.
* But we had a head start! There is no way they could have caught us. 100 armed men on horseback can not move faster than a caravan moving down a road.
This one I honestly don’t know. Is that a legitimate complaint? My defense was the knights were pushing it, because they were hot on the trail. The players replied back that they too were pushing it, which I called bull shit on. Never once did they say they were moving any faster than normal, and if you don’t say it, the assumption is you follow normal operating procedure, i.e. you move at normal speeds. It did take the knights a week to catch up. It wasn’t like they caught them the next day. It seemed reasonable to me, but perhaps this was not realistic. In my opinion, if I was wrong here it was a pretty minor offense.
* The knights would not have arrested us. At that point, it was Hadramas word verses ours. They would have questioned us and had a mini trial on the side of the road before deciding whether or not to take us into custody.
Hadramas is a well known merchant in Messantia, and was known by at least some of the knights (most of which were nobles). They’re out looking for bandits, and would rather be home drinking wine and chasing tail in their villas. They do not like this assignment, which is taking too long. Hadramas shows up in dirty torn clothes pleading his case. They jump at the chance to finally do something. If this isn’t good enough for you, then write it off as a case of Hadramas, being a sorcerer, charming the pants off the commanding officer. I mean come on, sorcerers in Conan make people jump when they say “boo”, and that’s if they haven’t made them an outright puppet with their arcane skills. Point is it didn’t seem like a stretch that the knights would take Hadramas' word.
Anyway, I don’t see how it’s not beside the point. The knights did in fact have a mini trial on the side of the road, questioning everyone, and then they determined the PCs were to be taken back to Messantia to be tried. The fact that they stated “You’re under arrest” before this is splitting hairs. They had a mini trial. Significantly more people backed Hadramas' story. And they were arrested. Whether they said “You’re under arrest” before or after the questioning, the end result is the same, so does it matter? In my opinion, if this is an offense on my part as a GM, it’s a minor one.
So that’s the long and the short of it. Am I off base?
