Darrians News

[Lord High Munchkin]

However, in the final analysis you could still argue that you have:

Space Smurfs/Elves
Space Dwarfs
Space Centaurs
Space Lizards/Newtlings
Space Lions
Space Doggies
Space Starfish
Space Spocks
... and not forgetting Space Flipper.

But there again I never liked the 3rd Imperium as a 'Traveller' setting....

 

[rust]

Nothing wrong with Space Flipper, it is the only plausible one of all those
Third Imperium species you listed ... :wink:

 

[Ector]

I agree with you otherwise, but the Genoee weren't changed by other humans, they were picked up by the Ancients from Terra just like the Darrians and most of the other minor human races.

Damn it, I've thought he meant Acherons! Having read just GURPS Traveller Humaniti, all the minor races are mixed in my head Acherons are also "dwarf-like"...
Nevertheless, Geonee aren't "dwarves". Yes they are shorter and stronger, but according to the mentioned book, they are more agile than average Human, but have Reduced Hit Points. Both features contradict with the traditional dwarven image - dwarves aren't very dextrous, but extremely sturdy. I've also never heard that dwarves treated women as property. Even duergars

 

[hdan]

Nevertheless, Geonee aren't "dwarves". Yes they are shorter and stronger, but according to the mentioned book, they are more agile than average Human, but have Reduced Hit Points.

So, Gnomes then? (D,RFC)

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

However, in the final analysis you could still argue that you have:

Space Smurfs/Elves
Space Dwarfs
Space Centaurs
Space Lizards/Newtlings
Space Lions
Space Doggies
Space Starfish
Space Spocks.

Yes, you can, or you can decide, in the initial analysis let alone the first, to be a lot more creative in thinking through the difference/similarities of what are highly advanced races, and how their biology might interact with their nurture and technology.

Actually, the one I really object to is vargr = orc, really very lazy thinking.

Egil

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

However, in the final analysis you could still argue that you have:

Space Smurfs/Elves
Space Dwarfs
Space Centaurs
Space Lizards/Newtlings
Space Lions
Space Doggies
Space Starfish
Space Spocks.

Yes, you can, or you can decide, in the initial analysis let alone the first, to be a lot more creative in thinking through the difference/similarities of what are highly advanced races, and how their biology might interact with their nurture and technology.

Actually, the one I really object to is vargr = orc, really very lazy thinking.

I agree, that's why I said "Doggies".

Actually my real problem is that the '3rd Imperium' setting isn't "alien" enough (OK, the Hivers are sort of OK). The races' cultures are similarly too "Earth-like"... heck, there are/have been far more weirder cultures on Earth than those of 'Traveller'.

I know it was all a product of the 1970's, but it's just all slightly too close to "men-in-rubber-suits" for my tastes (and North American thespians at that).

 

[hdan]

Actually my real problem is that the '3rd Imperium' setting isn't "alien" enough (OK, the Hivers are sort of OK). The races' cultures are similarly too "Earth-like"...

No argument here, though I've heard (and somewhat agree with) an argument that any aliens that we have meaningful interactions with will by necessity be similar to us in some way, at least psychologically. Otherwise, how or why would we be interacting with them?

At some level, all "major" races are going to be scientifically curious and probably stubborn enough to force their will upon the universe, or they would have never invented technology and the ability to travel to the stars. It's also reasonable to assume that they would natively have some concept of commerce or value, at least between groups if not between individuals, as long as they require materials that are limited in availability.

Non-major races could be so for a number of reasons, including not having been around long enough yet, missing intellect, curiosity or problem solving skills (or maybe just a good reason to use those skills), physical difficulties with tool use or habitat requirements or a host of other reasons. This is where you can encounter some *really* alien aliens.

Though at the core of things is the fact that Traveller is an RPG, and someone (usually the GM) is going to have to role-play these aliens. So there are practical limits on how weird they can be.

 

[rust]

While I have no problems to accept the Droyne and the Hivers, all the
other Traveller major races tend to destroy my suspension of disbelief.

There are Solomani, Vilani and Zhodani who are still interfertile after
300,000 years of separate evolution, K'kree with an attitude towards
carnivores that would cause them to ruin the ecosystem of each pla-
net inhabited by them, Aslan with a mentality that is all too obviously
a copy of that of a human culture, Vargr who behave like fantasy dog-
people ...

 

[Cyphr]

Space Spocks
... and not forgetting Space Flipper.

Space Spocks?


Space Flipper, tastes like chicken.

 

[Ishmael]

imo, the problem with traveller aliens is that one or two stereotypical charact.characteristics are applied to the entire race with a horribly broad brush such that these one or two stereotypes define the entire race.

For the most part, the differences between the aliens and humans amount to differences in cultures anyways, so just use humans and be done with.

But if aliens have to be in the game, at least make their culture multi-dimensional and not as flat, plain and uniform as a sheet of cardboard.....

I'd rather have an interesting and well thought out, consistent human-in-rubber-suit than a cardboard and flan 'alien' thats weird, just to avoid being called a human-in-rubber-suit.

 

[rust]

I'd rather have an interesting and well thought out, consistent human-in-rubber-suit than a cardboard and flan 'alien' thats weird, just to avoid being called a human-in-rubber-suit.

Agreed, although I would still enjoy aliens with an obviously non-terres-
trial biology and culture and no obvious similarity with any terrestrial animal.

As Stanislaw Lem once put it, an encounter with an alien would probab-
ly be somewhat like a discussion between a squirrel and a snail, and for
my taste almost all Traveller aliens lack this "strangeness feel" that I
would expect.

True, it would be a lot more difficult to roleplay, and such aliens would
not make plausible player character species, but in my view a convin-
cing science fiction universe should have at least as many of this kind
as of the "human-in-rubber-suit"-kind.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

The aliens being in "rubber suits" and low dimensional cultures is certainly true in Traveller, but what alternatives would you have within a RPG context? Since OTU deals with primarily with a "human" empire, the other rubber suits have to be "human" enough to understandable to be governed by that human empire and still be playable in an RPG

Make them too human and you have Republic/Empire in Star Wars. Those are best rubber suits CGI can buy!

Make the aliens too different and interaction on a regular basis becomes limiting then. Alien of the Week at best, and at worst nemesis empire. In the first case once you understand the motiviation they are not longer mysterious, in the second they are so different there is no interaction or it can only be competitive. Well at least from the limited human understanding of them.

Some great Aliens of the Week were in the 2300 game, Eber and Pentapods come to mind. Once you know how they tick, they are not that alien you can play them, perhaps, but not in mixed company.
Some rarely/never find peaceful interaction, like Kafers in 2300, Genestealers in 40K, Symbiotes and the Vau in Fading Suns, the Borg. Well you can talk to last three, but the will likely not care to listen.

 

[rust]

I think what would be needed for a really good science fiction roleplaying
game would be a good mix of all kinds of aliens, some "rubber suit" ones
as well as some more difficult ones as well as some completely incompre-
hensible ones.

In my view David Brin created a good mix of that kind for his Uplift uni-
verse, he just went a bit too far for my taste by introducing too many ali-
en species overall - a total of a about a dozen species would seem more
plausible to me than hundreds of them.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

I suppose it also depends on the length of star-spanning capacity.

If one or another (or even many) species have developed interstellar civilisations over, say a few billion years, there might be quite a number (as if a culture is capable of FTL, then anti-ageing medicine/technology might be quite widespread).

Many species and cultures will have wandered off to other places, or died out, or evolved... but there again, yet others will have been uplifted, or developed on their own, to make up the numbers.

On the other hand, if star travel is quite a recent (relatively so) development, there could be only a few species.

I tend to prefer an "oldish" universe, but with far fewer "men-in-rubber-suits" and more weirdness.

 

[Cleon the Mad]

imo, the problem with traveller aliens is that one or two stereotypical charact.characteristics are applied to the entire race with a horribly broad brush such that these one or two stereotypes define the entire race.

For the most part, the differences between the aliens and humans amount to differences in cultures anyways, so just use humans and be done with.

But if aliens have to be in the game, at least make their culture multi-dimensional and not as flat, plain and uniform as a sheet of cardboard.....

I'd rather have an interesting and well thought out, consistent human-in-rubber-suit than a cardboard and flan 'alien' thats weird, just to avoid being called a human-in-rubber-suit.

One thing to consider, the descriptions given in the various alien modules/books for each edition of Traveller along with other canon articles are basically stereotypes and guidelines. Consider this, what if you were a Traveller alien and you decided to write a pencil & paper RPG, including "generic humaniti" as a race. You'd need a set of stereotypes and guidelines to go with so the person playing this alien's game could have an idea of how to roleplay them. Of course, said player in the alien's hypothetical game could then add quirks and other unique aspects to the personality of his or her "generic humaniti" character in order to make it unique.

Or to put it another way, sure the aliens might seem "cardboard and flat" to a degree, but most descriptions for most non-human races in most RPG's tend to IMO to some degree. It's up to the player to look at the template presented and then figure out how to make said character unique.

As an aside, since this is in one of the Darrian threads, I once had a Darrian Navy character in a MegaTraveller game. The concept was someone in an Exploration corps/branch of their Navy who was working jointly with the IISS. Or otherwise, the Darrian equivelent of a scout, but in the Navy since they like most non-Imperial governments don't have a seperate scout service. Anyway, I had him pick up a lot of atypical (to a Darrian) quirks and habits due to hanging out with these rough and tumble scout guys (I made him of all things a chain smoker for instance, he had some oddball for a Darrian personality quirks too) but yet he still had some Darrian traits as well. So yes, he still was a Darrian, but he wasn't cookie cutter or a stereotype.

Anyway, rambling done. I'm looking forward to this book, hoping it isn't delayed again (but if it needs to be to make sure the best possible product is out, so be it) and I'm very much kicking around rerolling a character like him for a new campaign I might be joining.

 

[rinku]

It's always a problem with aliens - if you make them too human they're just guys in rubber suits; if you make them too alien they become almost unplayable, or at least too hard to describe.

At least with Darrians they *aren't* truly alien. Their physiological quirks aren't much more than between a Koi bushman and a Masai. They breed true with the other humans. Almost all the differences are cultural, and I'd rate Darrian vs Imperial as roughly the difference between Imperial China and modern USA (not implying any specifics here, btw).

In any case, modern Darrians are a blend of original and Terran genes and culture.

Of course, ultimately, everyone outside your head is alien

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

I'd rate Darrian vs Imperial as roughly the difference between Imperial China and modern USA (not implying any specifics here, btw).

I don't think it's even that diverse... they still both just seem 1970-1980's North Americans to me. Sort of the difference between a New Yorker and a Florida "Snow Bird" from Iowa.

It does need bearing in mind that stereotypes are stereotypes precisely because most are very close to the general image—it's only the odd individual that adds some major difference.

 

[Cleon the Mad]

I'd rate Darrian vs Imperial as roughly the difference between Imperial China and modern USA (not implying any specifics here, btw).

I don't think it's even that diverse... they still both just seem 1970-1980's North Americans to me. Sort of the difference between a New Yorker and a Florida "Snow Bird" from Iowa.

It does need bearing in mind that stereotypes are stereotypes precisely because most are very close to the general image—it's only the odd individual that adds some major difference.

Really? It's been my experience that stereotypes are as generally wrong as they are generally right. At best a stereotype is a guideline.

 

[Lord High Munchkin]

Yes, if one only compares two individuals that probably is correct, but even in that scenario 50% is still quite a large amount.

 

[justacaveman]

Statistical averages are useless when applied to individuals. Everything is a bell curve.

What many people refer to as stereotypes, are actually derogatory parodies, not stereotypes. A stereotype is just an average snapshot of a group, and is rarely an accurate representation of a single group member.