Damage To Ships From Internal Sources

[Solomani666]

I noticed that magazine hits are not included in the critical hits table.

I would like you all to chime in on the following scenarios and their possible effects on a naval vessel:
1. A bomb is placed in a magazine comprising of standard missiles/tornadoes.
2. A single missile/torpedo in a ships magazine is sabotaged and explodes.
3. A nuclear missile/torpedo is detonated inside of the ship without notice.
4. A nuclear missile/torpedo is detonated inside of the ship with prior notice.
5. A nuclear missile designed to first penetrate the hull of a ship and explode internally is detonated.
(I'm thinking a 10dton missile or a large torpedo with a dual fusion/nuclear charge)

 

[Reynard]

Yes, the magazine blows if only by the amount of explosive charges in that hold. Nuclear weapons detonated this way would be 'dirty bombs' as their method of driving their material to critical mass doesn't occur. You're just vaporizing the radioactive mass.

It would most likely be some sort of automatic Critical Hit with a nasty Severity rating. An internal explosion like that might be a double Critical. If you introduce something like this to the game, I'd say there would also be a Blow-out feature that aids in reducing damage such damage. As it is, I think ammo explosions are integral to the Weapons critical hits.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

A nuke going off unimpeded inside a small metal box (starship) should result in an expanding cloud of plasma with almost no solid matter left.

A Nuclear Damper might save the day.

Getting a nuke to go off when it is not intended to should not be trivial.

 

[Condottiere]

Secondary explosions could include capacitors and batteries for energy weapons.

Like the ones charging up the spinal mount.

 

[-Daniel-]

To be honest, unless my intent was to have a TPK for some reason, I would never allow this to happen. The Plot would fail somehow. Why? Because just what AnotherDilbert said, a nuke going off inside the ship would be the end of everything on and including the ship.

Now having the characters learn of such a plot and trying to stop it could make for an interesting game.

 

[Solomani666]

A nuke going off unimpeded inside a small metal box (starship) should result in an expanding cloud of plasma with almost no solid matter left.

A Nuclear Damper might save the day.

Getting a nuke to go off when it is not intended to should not be trivial.

As far I know, dampers don't work inside of a ship.

 

[Solomani666]

To be honest, unless my intent was to have a TPK for some reason, I would never allow this to happen. The Plot would fail somehow. Why? Because just what AnotherDilbert said, a nuke going off inside the ship would be the end of everything on and including the ship.

Now having the characters learn of such a plot and trying to stop it could make for an interesting game.

Maybe the characters are part of a commando raid or the saboteurs and have a way off the ship...

 

[Solomani666]

As it is, I think ammo explosions are integral to the Weapons critical hits.

This does not seem to be the case.
Example please.

 

[Solomani666]

So what do you think the damage would be for a 10 dton torpedo with a plasma cutting charge to breach the hull followed by a nuclear charge that detonates inside of the ship?

 

[Jeraa]

As it is, I think ammo explosions are integral to the Weapons critical hits.

This does not seem to be the case.
Example please.

A critical hit on a weapons system involves the weapon exploding on a Severity of 4, 5, or 6, dealing additional damage (increasing Hull Severity). Granted, other hit locations also raise Hull Severity, but only the Weapon entry says this is because the target hit explodes.

 

[Solomani666]

A critical hit on a weapons system involves the weapon exploding on a Severity of 4, 5, or 6, dealing additional damage (increasing Hull Severity). Granted, other hit locations also raise Hull Severity, but only the Weapon entry says this is because the target hit explodes.

That's the weapon exploding. Not the magazine.

Take a modern battleship for example.
Compare a loaded turret getting hit as apposed to the magazine getting hit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qalJ9koob2Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdrISbwy_zI

 

[phavoc]

I noticed that magazine hits are not included in the critical hits table.

I would like you all to chime in on the following scenarios and their possible effects on a naval vessel:
1. A bomb is placed in a magazine comprising of standard missiles/tornadoes.
2. A single missile/torpedo in a ships magazine is sabotaged and explodes.
3. A nuclear missile/torpedo is detonated inside of the ship without notice.
4. A nuclear missile/torpedo is detonated inside of the ship with prior notice.
5. A nuclear missile designed to first penetrate the hull of a ship and explode internally is detonated.
(I'm thinking a 10dton missile or a large torpedo with a dual fusion/nuclear charge)

1 - Basically every missile or torp that detonates is an internal damage hit to roll. And that's being very generous by not rolling multiple hits. A magazine design should channel the explosion outwards, but there will always be some that isn't going to make it out. A fully loaded magazine for a small warship will have 10s of dozens of missiles. So for most it's a death sentence.

2 - Same as #1 above.

3 - A nuke would vaporize most of the insides of the ship. Only the most massive of vessels could hope to survive this. The armor and everything else is designed to keep stuff out, and thus it would keep things in as well.

4 - Same as #3 above.

5 - This is a little different. Assuming you mean the forward part of the missile blasts a hole in the hull, then the nuclear device follows and detonates inside, under the armor? In that case it is essentially the same as a nuke detonating inside.

One thing that would affect all these answers is the use of armored bulkheads in the ship. In theory you would also have an armored core. So keeping with that theory, your nuclear blast would decimate the non-armored compartments, and possibly be stopped at the frames to each side of the blast. It would cause massive damage to the section, but might not completely render the ship destroyed. Then again, once you start getting into collapsed matter armor, pretty much all weapons start to become an annoyance rather than a threat. Though the game doesn't quite get into that level of detail or realism.

 

[Solomani666]

So how many xxDD?

 

[Condottiere]

Nuclear warheads probably have failsafes, so they won't blow unless they're supposed to.

On the other hand whatever they're using as propellant could be subject to premature ignition.

 

[JMISBEST]

Reminds me of a similar event from 10 years back when my Dad was teaching me how to be A Traveller GM. The players were up against A Stolen Prototype Navy Ship turned Pirate and had no chance, but my Dad/The GM decided to be kind on them and have a idiot on the bridge accidentally press the detonate, not launch, button for the prototype TL 16 super-misile build by A TL 14 world and the result saved The Pcs Ship, destroyed their enemies ship and careful investment of the reward money allowed The Pcs to retire and live a fairly good life

 

[-Daniel-]

Reminds me of a similar event from 10 years back when my Dad was teaching me how to be A Traveller GM. The players were up against A Stolen Prototype Navy Ship turned Pirate and had no chance, but my Dad/The GM decided to be kind on them and have a idiot on the bridge accidentally press the detonate, not launch, button for the prototype TL 16 super-misile build by A TL 14 world and the result saved The Pcs Ship, destroyed their enemies ship and careful investment of the reward money allowed The Pcs to retire and live a fairly good life

I try to avoid such Dues ex Machina moments but sometimes you just have to do it as a GM. :wink: