Cultural Similarities

[Stygian Overlord]

I am a big Conan fan, but some of my players aren't that familiar with the stories beyond the movie and I must admit...I am not much of a hyborian hystorian...

Does anyone know if there is a "Hyborian Culture" that resembles or corresponds to ancient Greece? Or Rome for that matter?

Some of my players have been asking during character creation which cultures correspond to these historical peoples.

 

[Jason Durall]

I am a big Conan fan, but some of my players aren't that familiar with the stories beyond the movie and I must admit...I am not much of a hyborian hystorian...

Does anyone know if there is a "Hyborian Culture" that resembles or corresponds to ancient Greece? Or Rome for that matter?

Some of my players have been asking during character creation which cultures correspond to these historical peoples.

Argos is a later-period Greece, and Aquilonia is essentially Roman, though they are a more advanced version of either society's heyday.

Most of the Hyborian kingdoms have direct cultural analogs, as Howard was using the notion that cultural patterns from the Hyborian Age reappeared in our own history, epochs later.

 

[Hyborian Apeman]

Part of me wants to say Argos is like a less militant version of Rome with the prevalence of slavery and the Arena and what not. Argos definitely reeks of a pre Renaissance version of Venice and Florence (with the merchant houses prevalence and all).

But the empirish militant dominance of Aquilonia (not to mention all of the names) are definitely Roman in influence.

Corinthia and its city state structure reminded me a lot of Greece culture too. Any seconds on that one?

 

[Tyrant]

Yes, Corinthia seems blatantly based the classic Greek city staes.

Aquilonia has a greater Roman feel than Argos, but I can't see either as a direct corelation. Neither state makes mention of a senate for instance, and I don't recall seeing togas as haute couture in either kingdom
In my opinion, the roman influence of Aquilonia is in the names and in the expansionistic imperial designs of the throne. But in terms of how the interior of the kingdom operates, I would submit that it has a lot more in common with medieval France.

Argos, as has been mentioned earlier, seems more of a theoretical "kingdom" of Venice, centered in Messantia. What with the dominance of the merchant houses and guilds.

 

[Stygian Overlord]

While I'm asking crazy questions...is it just me or does the Vilayet(sp?) Sea seem a little too small/featureless for the amount of Piracy that seems to be going on? I don't have my map here, but there doesn't seem to be enough cities and islands to have that much piracy thriving.

(Again I am no expert on piracy in the real world or in Hyboria, I was just surprised to see on the map that it was a landlocked body of water surrounded by "Arabian" for lack of a better word, or eastern countries.)

 

[Jason Durall]

While I'm asking crazy questions...is it just me or does the Vilayet(sp?) Sea seem a little too small/featureless for the amount of Piracy that seems to be going on? I don't have my map here, but there doesn't seem to be enough cities and islands to have that much piracy thriving.

(Again I am no expert on piracy in the real world or in Hyboria, I was just surprised to see on the map that it was a landlocked body of water surrounded by "Arabian" for lack of a better word, or eastern countries.)

My opinion is that the coast is probably dotted with much smaller cities and villages, perhaps too smal to make the scale on the map. Similarly, there are probably dozens, if not hundreds of tiny islands that again are too small to merit mapping on the scale of the continental map.

Just because Howard never invented much out that way does not mean that it cannot be teeming with other communities in your own campaign.

 

[René]

Part of me wants to say Argos is like a less militant version of Rome with the prevalence of slavery and the Arena and what not. Argos definitely reeks of a pre Renaissance version of Venice and Florence (with the merchant houses prevalence and all).

But the empirish militant dominance of Aquilonia (not to mention all of the names) are definitely Roman in influence.

Corinthia and its city state structure reminded me a lot of Greece culture too. Any seconds on that one?

Corinthia looks to me indeed like Classical Greece, since it is fragmented in different city-states. I don't have RoK at hand, but IIRC Corinthia is compared with Renaissance Italy, which seems correct, too: Greek poleis were often democratic (in a different sense than today-democracy) which is not said of Corinthinan city-states (IIRC), but they are said to be only of the autocratic / aristocratic type, which points more to Renaissance Italy.

 

[René]

While I'm asking crazy questions...is it just me or does the Vilayet(sp?) Sea seem a little too small/featureless for the amount of Piracy that seems to be going on? I don't have my map here, but there doesn't seem to be enough cities and islands to have that much piracy thriving.

(Again I am no expert on piracy in the real world or in Hyboria, I was just surprised to see on the map that it was a landlocked body of water surrounded by "Arabian" for lack of a better word, or eastern countries.)

The map ratio (correct word?) of the official CONAN map is imho undersized: I would at least double all distances (I think there is a thread about this).

The frequency of piracy in spite of the Turanian Empire surrounding the Vilayet Sea isn't a problem imho: the rule of ancient empires was seldom so strict and perfect as we are used to today in Western civilization. Especially a relatively young empire like the Turanian has problably little experience in consolidating his rule (compare the Roman problems with pirates that were - at least in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea - solved as late as Pompeius).

Zamboula e.g. has only a Turanian governor with the original nobility as fundament, but not a real Turanian rule. If the situation around the Vilayet is similar, there are surely a lot of hide-outs for pirates - and even some local nobles / rulers who do some piracy themselves...

 

[Seeker]

Does anyone know if there is a "Hyborian Culture" that resembles or corresponds to ancient Greece? Or Rome for that matter

As stated Argos = Greece. I think Jason and the Argonauts could have quite happily sailed from Messantia in search of the Golden Fleece.

For Ancient Rome though, I would plumb for Nemedia (chariots, slaves and names like Kallian Publico) or possibly even Ancient Acheron (cruelty, slaves, destroyed by Barbarians hordes).

 

[Hadrathas]

I agree, Nemedia from what I can tell seems to be Roman based. Argos can equal Greece but to me with the large port of Messantia and the smaller size of the country, it reminds me more of the city state of Athens.

Aquilonia has more of a feel of medieval France to me with its quantity of Knights in full plate armor...and Poiton has the feel of Provence to me.

I do not have enough info on Corinthia - besides being city states- to make a guess on what culture they are based on. Corinth was a city state in Greece so there is the argument for that culture also...Anyone know other cities in Corinthia?

 

[slaughterj]

I have two lists (at least one came from this site, if not both) of potential equivalences, but I like the way this thread is going, getting a bit more analytical, and it can't hurt to list some areas as hybrids either.

Here's the first list:

Hyborian Age – Real World Equivalents:
Aquilonia: France
Argos: Greece
Corinthia: Greece
Ghulistan: Afghanistan
Hyperborea: Finland
Iranistan: Iran
Khitai: China
Kush: Africa
Nordheim (Vanaheim/Asgard): (Norway and Sweden)
Stygia: Egypt
Vendhya: India
Zamora: Ukraine
Zingara: Spain


Here's the second list:

Aquilonia: Latinized France.

Argos: Heroic (Homeric) Greece.

Corinthia: Classical (City-State) Greece.

Ghulistan: Afghanistan.

Hyperborea: Finland (as inspired by the Kalevala).

Iranistan: Iran, pre-Islamic Persia with a dash of Arab culture.

Khitai: China of the Warring States period (Three Kingdoms).

Kush: An Egyptianized version of various kingdoms of the Sahel and forestlands (sub-Saharan western Africa).

Nordheim (Vanaheim/Asgard): Norway and Sweden, with the applicable mythic additions of the Vanir and Aesir.

Stygia: Egypt, classical pre-Islamic of course.

Vendhya: India, pre-Buddhist.

Zamora: A mix of the Balkans, rather than the Ukraine, specifically the Romanians and Southern Slavs.

Zingara: Spain, pre-1492.

Ophir: Northern Italian city-states (Lombardy) during the time of the mid to late Holy Roman Empire.

Nemedia: Latinized Germany of the time of the Holy Roman Empire (though rather more united than that would seem).

Brythunia: Some non-Howard Conan authors have portrayed it as Poland, others as Wales. I have my Brythunians being similar to the "modern" Bossonians and Ligureans, and thus somewhat of a Welsh/Saxon mix. My Brythunians, like the Bossonians, are a mix of the pre-Acheronian native population with the Hyborians, whereas the Aquilonians, Nemedians, and Ophireans are a mix of Acheronian/pre-Acheronian/Hyborian.

Koth: I see Koth as a mix of the Byzantine Empire, combined with the Hellenic Kingdoms and City-States of the post-Alexander period (Selucids, Ptolemies, etc.), with a very heavy admixture of Canaanite and Phoenician/Punic culture.

Khauran and Khoraja: As Koth, with heavy Canaanite influence.

Shem: The meadowlands of the west are Canaanite, the central cities are Babylonian/Sumerian, and the deserts of the east are Arabic.

Darfar: Various Nigerian tribes with a heavy pulp influence.

Keshan: Ancient Meroe (i.e., "Black Egypt").

Punt: As Keshan, with Abassynian influence.

Zembabwei: Zimbabwe of myth and legend.

Turan: Turkey of the Ottomans.

Kosala: Much like Vendhya, above, only with odd non-historical elements.

Meru: Nepal and Tibet.

Kambuja: Various cultures of Indochina, including Vietnamese, Khmer, Siam, and so forth.

Hyrkania: Mongolia.

Kusan: Western Chinese mountain kingdoms (the kind that were extinguished by Genghis Khan).

Pathenia: Siberia.

 

[Stygian Overlord]

Well after a little light reading I found that there are apparently thousands of cities (hundreds in Zamora alone) dotting the landscape that are not represented on the map so I am sure there are a number of islands not represented either.

 

[Faraer]

Although you can peg some Hyborian countries as more Greek than others, I think it's truer to say that all the Hyborian nations are heavily influenced by ancient Greece and Rome along with medieval Europe.

 

[Bregales]

While I'm asking crazy questions...is it just me or does the Vilayet(sp?) Sea seem a little too small/featureless for the amount of Piracy that seems to be going on? I don't have my map here, but there doesn't seem to be enough cities and islands to have that much piracy thriving.

(Again I am no expert on piracy in the real world or in Hyboria, I was just surprised to see on the map that it was a landlocked body of water surrounded by "Arabian" for lack of a better word, or eastern countries.)

Well, it's supposed to be an enlarged and contained Black Sea-Meditteranean Sea forebear. (I brought several books in to work hoping to finish my adventure for tomorrow's game, but haven't been able to do that (I AM at work after all :lol: ), at least at the end of my lunch break I can write here).

As it says in The Road of Kings (p.133): [it is]a two-thousand-mile long, three hundred-mile wide inland sea patrolled by Turanian war-ships.... Pretty big enough for 100 -200 pirate ships in the fleet of the Red Brotherhood and perhaps another 100 (note that 100 of the RB and most of the independents are small-sized (captured) craft).

 

[Hadrathas]

Well, it's supposed to be an enlarged and contained Black Sea-Meditteranean Sea forebear.

From what I understood, its shape and location I believe it to be the Caspian Sea, not the Black Sea...of course I have been wrong before!

Shem: The meadowlands of the west are Canaanite, the central cities are Babylonian/Sumerian, and the deserts of the east are Arabic.

I was also under the impression that the Sons of Shem were based on Assyrians, with their curled Blue-Black beards. The Asshuri based on the Assyrian city od Assur or Asshur, being the first capitol before Nineveh.

 

[GregLynch]

I see Argos as a Greece/Rome mix, with Messantia having flavors of Hellenic Greece, Imperial Rome and Renaissance Florence/Venice. As others have pointed out, the Merchant Houses are reminiscent of the kind of families found in Renaissance Florence and Venice - I think the Borgias and Medicis would be quite happy there (at least, as happy as the Borgias ever got).

On the other hand, I drew inspiration for a lot of things in the Messantia box from Imperial Rome - things from terms of military service to the crop rotation system in the Farmlands. Others were drawn from ancient Greece and still others were an amalgamation of the two.

Lastly, of course, there are all the things I just made up as I pounded away on the keyboard.

 

[Jason Durall]

I was also under the impression that the Sons of Shem were based on Assyrians, with their curled Blue-Black beards.

Shemite = Semite, at least in Howard's writings.

 

[Bregales]

Well, it's supposed to be an enlarged and contained Black Sea-Meditteranean Sea forebear.

From what I understood, its shape and location I believe it to be the Caspian Sea, not the Black Sea...of course I have been wrong before!

Oops, my bad. Another mis-quote, I'm terrible with proper nouns. Yeah, I was thinking Caspian and wrote Black, I shoulda grabbed an atlas before I replied!

 

[Hadrathas]

Shemite = Semite, at least in Howard's writings

Shem was a son of Noah and was said to be the progenitor of the Semetic Race of which the Hebrews, Babylonians, Assyrians, Arameans, and Arabs belong too. So the Sons of Shem would be these peoples and being a bunch of City States that warred amongst themselves, each city would belong to a different branch..