Yeah, it's a tricky balance. In this case I've usually gone the route of being aggressive as possible with the tech upgrades, kept the tonnage the same and then looked to see how the relative firepower is vs. the J3, accepting that it will be down a notch for the sake of having the more mobile platform. Of course in this situation having the more mobile platform is a choice of trade off for the same TL and for the Imperial Navy it should have the budget to allow it to drive high tech. What I dislike seeing is the TL 12 ship J3 outfighting the TL15 J4 ship. That's when I think the rules are not all they should be :wink:AnotherDilbert said:
Cruisers!
- Thread starter AnotherDilbert
- Start date
I'll put in the link to this old thread on a torpedo (what is now termed a) cruiser and some of the issues to watch.
http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?f=149&t=117365
http://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/viewtopic.php?f=149&t=117365
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
That is perhaps a simpler comparison.Chas said:
That has always been a problem with CT Bk2 and systems like it (that has minimal TL differences). I agree that it is a problem, and MgT2 suffers from it. Changing that would require major changes to the ship design system and combat system. I guess it's too late...Chas said:
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
The issue remains the same. Mongoose seems to want it that way... Well, it's good news for the Sword Worlds.Chas said:
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Here's another version of the J-3 Particle BB from last page. This time keeping the tonnage constant, upgrading to Fuel efficient J-4 drives. So for I get half the firepower for 110% of the cost, meh. Fuel Efficient jump drives are clearly superior for J-4, but not for J-3.
Light Particle Battleship 135 kT, Crew: 2600, GCr 115
J-4, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: Spinal Particle (5DD), 660 triple particle turret.
Defences: Armour 15, ten 1000 dT modules.
2200 dT free for supplies and small craft.
For defences or special purposes ten 1000 dT modules are provided for. Power is available for all modules. Modules must include living space for any crew.
Modules include:
PD: 55 PD Batteries, Type III, MCr 1210
Meson Screen: 110 Meson Screens, MCr 3328
Nuclear Damper: 110 Dampers, MCr 1678
Fighter Bay: 12 Fighters (35 dT), MCr 188 w/o fighters
Drone Bay: 500 drones (1.8 dT), MCr 2700 w drones
Missile Bay: 426 missiles/attack, MCr 665 + MCr 2300 for the missiles
Boat Bay: 500 dT hangars, 100 staterooms, 100 dT cargo, MCr 150
Flag Bridge: Flag bridge, spacious quarters for 100 officers, 200 dT boat bay, MCr 185
Barracks: Barracks for a light battalion (370 men), MCr 88
Light Particle Battleship 135 kT, Crew: 2600, GCr 115
J-4, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: Spinal Particle (5DD), 660 triple particle turret.
Defences: Armour 15, ten 1000 dT modules.
Code:
TL 15 HullP 90000 114 338
Desired Rat # dTonn Cost Power Hardp Crew
Hull 135000 27000 1350
Config Streamlined 2 2 8700
Hull strength Standard 2 2
Armour Bonded Superdense 20 15 16200 10440
Rad Shielding 1 1 3375
JumpD VAdv,2*FuelEff 4 4 1 13505 25322 54000 386
ManœuvreD VAdv,2*EneEff 9 9 1 12150 30375 60750 347
PowerP 1 7114 14227 142270 203
Drop Tank Collar 4 4 1 216 108
Fuel, Jump 4 4 1 48600
Fuel, Power 4 4 1 711
Fuel Purification 24 h 24 h 1 2430 122
Command Bridge 1 1 80 1013
Holographic 1 1 253
Comp CORE/100 30 100 1 130
Backup Comp CORE/90 19 90 1 30
/fib 1 1 80
Sensors Advanced 9 4 2 10 11 6
Array Distributed 9 3 2 40 42
Extension Net
Signal Processing Enhanced 9 2 2 4 16 2
Countermeasures Military 9 2 2 30 56 2
Staterooms 100% 1421 1421 5684 711
Common Areas 12% 12% 1 682 68
Briefing Room 10 10 40 5
Library 10 10 40 40
Medical Bay 10% of crew 1 53 212 106
Workshop 10 10 60 9
Armoury 1 105 210 53
Brig 10 10 40 3
Low Berths 100 100 50 5 10
Cargo 2232
UNREP
1000 dT Module 10 10 10000 33000 550
Spinal Particle 5 5 1 14000 6500 5000 140 140
Turret Accurate,HYield
Particle HighTechnology 660 TL14 660 660 12540 16500 660 660
Crew 2605
Command 237
Bridge 4
Pilot 3
Astrogator 1
Sensor & EW 122
Engineer 1207
Engineer 936
Maintenance 270
Service 155
Admin 135
Medic 19,56666667
Steward 0
Gunner 880
Flight
Troops 0For defences or special purposes ten 1000 dT modules are provided for. Power is available for all modules. Modules must include living space for any crew.
Modules include:
PD: 55 PD Batteries, Type III, MCr 1210
Meson Screen: 110 Meson Screens, MCr 3328
Nuclear Damper: 110 Dampers, MCr 1678
Fighter Bay: 12 Fighters (35 dT), MCr 188 w/o fighters
Drone Bay: 500 drones (1.8 dT), MCr 2700 w drones
Missile Bay: 426 missiles/attack, MCr 665 + MCr 2300 for the missiles
Boat Bay: 500 dT hangars, 100 staterooms, 100 dT cargo, MCr 150
Flag Bridge: Flag bridge, spacious quarters for 100 officers, 200 dT boat bay, MCr 185
Barracks: Barracks for a light battalion (370 men), MCr 88
Yep. I'm doing a bunch of building around the smaller end seeing what works at the 2 to 10k range for various designs and the Jump 4 true cruiser in approved formal naval parlance "sucks".
Not going to work going small on a cruiser cruiser - a ship that would have a few bells and whistles as well as a Jump 4 able to travel on long voyages with the cargo and other things it will need like a ships boat and marines. It'll need to be big and not a ship of the line type.
Which isn't the end of the world actually. A 50K ship with a weak spinal and all the toys for gun boat diplomacy will have a valid role and be in line with original High Guard.
Not going to work going small on a cruiser cruiser - a ship that would have a few bells and whistles as well as a Jump 4 able to travel on long voyages with the cargo and other things it will need like a ships boat and marines. It'll need to be big and not a ship of the line type.
Which isn't the end of the world actually. A 50K ship with a weak spinal and all the toys for gun boat diplomacy will have a valid role and be in line with original High Guard.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
That's what the more exotic modules are for on my larger ships. When not at war with any major power I assume the larger ships will carry a few marine and boat bay modules, to be able to interface with civilians.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
The "Hakkapeliitta" is a true light cruiser intended for raiding, not pitched battle. Puts mobility first with J-4 and streamlining to be able to refuel quickly everywhere. Excellent sensors and ECM. Extensive onboard storage (900 dT) for long patrols, possibly behind enemy lines. 50 marines and a few small craft. Extra crew in low berths. Backup computer and sensors.
"Hakkapeliitta" class Light Cruiser, 25 000 dT, Crew: 650, GCr 19.5
J-4, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: 20 medium Fusion bays (Long Range, HiYield), 130 triple Particle (Accurate,HiYield) turrets.
Defences: Armour 15, 100 triple Pulse Laser (Accurate) turrets.
50 marines and a few small craft to transport them.
400 Low Berths for frozen watch, prize crews, and prisoners.
"Hakkapeliitta" class Light Cruiser, 25 000 dT, Crew: 650, GCr 19.5
J-4, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: 20 medium Fusion bays (Long Range, HiYield), 130 triple Particle (Accurate,HiYield) turrets.
Defences: Armour 15, 100 triple Pulse Laser (Accurate) turrets.
Code:
TL 15 HullP 12500 19 488
Desired Rat # dTonn Cost Power Hardp Crew
Hull 25000 5000 250
Config Close Structure 4 4 1500
Hull strength Reinforced 3 3
Armour Bonded Superdense 20 15 3000 1800
Rad Shielding 1 1 625
Repair Drones 1 1 250 50
JumpD VAdv,2*RedSize 4 4 1 2004 3758 10000 57
ManœuvreD VAdv,2*EneEff 9 9 1 2250 5625 11250 64
PowerP TL12,3*RedSize 1 1049 1573 22470 30
Drop Tank Collar 4 4 1 40 20
Fuel, Jump 4 4 1 10000
Fuel, Power 4 4 1 105
Fuel Purification 24 h 24 h 1 500 25
Command Bridge 1 1 80 188
Holographic 1 1 47
Comp CORE/100 50 100 1 130
Backup Comp m/15 /bis /fib 3 15 1 4
Evade/3 25 3
AdvFireControl/3 30 18
Point Defence/2 15 12
Sensors Advanced 9 4 2 10 11 6
Array Distributed 9 3 2 40 42
Extension Net 9 1 1 250 250
Signal Processing Enhanced 9 2 2 4 16 2
Countermeasures Military 9 2 2 30 56 2
Staterooms 100% 354 354 1416 177
Common Areas 25% 25% 1 354 35
Briefing Room 2 2 8 1
Library 2 2 8 8
Medical Bay 10% of crew 1 13 52 26
Workshop 2 2 12 2
Armoury 1 36 36 9
Training Facility 10 10 20 4 20
Brig 2 2 8 1
Low Berths 400 400 200 20 40
Cargo 903
Medium Bay
Fusion High Technology 20 TL15 20 2000 480 1600 20 20
Turret
Particle High Technology 130 TL14 130 130 2470 3250 130 130
Pulse Laser Very Advanced 100 TL11 100 100 475 1300 100 100
Craft 35,5 dT 2 2 142 28 8
Crew 648
Command 59
Bridge 24
Pilot 3
Astrogator 1
Sensor & EW 20
Engineer 202
Engineer 151
Maintenance 50
Service 30
Admin 25
Medic 4,8667
Steward 0
Gunner 275
Flight 8
Troops 50400 Low Berths for frozen watch, prize crews, and prisoners.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Chaz makes good points. A scouting/raider should be stealthed. Especially against merchantmen of a few TL lower it would be effective.
When we are far from friendly port I would not want any single point of failure. The drives are too big to backup, but computers and sensors should be duplicated. Especially I'm worried about you single small craft, if it malfunctions or is shot up it leaves you with a big problem.
When we are far from friendly port I would not want any single point of failure. The drives are too big to backup, but computers and sensors should be duplicated. Especially I'm worried about you single small craft, if it malfunctions or is shot up it leaves you with a big problem.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Draft 2, after design review by naval architecture bureau "Chas". Added stealth, added ortillery, squeezed the size, increased cost 20%. The Naval Appropriations Committee will not be amused...
The "Hakkapeliitta" is a true light cruiser intended for scouting and raiding, not pitched battle. Puts mobility first with J-4 and streamlining to be able to refuel quickly everywhere. Good sensors and ECM. Basic stealth and EM masking, stealth jump drive. Extensive onboard storage (500 dT) for long patrols, possibly behind enemy lines. 50 marines and a few small craft. Extra crew in low berths. Backup computer and sensors.
"Hakkapeliitta" class Light Cruiser, 25 000 dT, Crew: 680, GCr 23.8
J-4, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: 16 medium Fusion bays (Long Range, ReducedSize), 2 small Ortillery bays (3*ReducedSize), 132 triple Particle (Accurate,HiYield) turrets.
Defences: Armour 15, 100 triple Pulse Laser (Accurate) turrets.
The "Hakkapeliitta" is a true light cruiser intended for scouting and raiding, not pitched battle. Puts mobility first with J-4 and streamlining to be able to refuel quickly everywhere. Good sensors and ECM. Basic stealth and EM masking, stealth jump drive. Extensive onboard storage (500 dT) for long patrols, possibly behind enemy lines. 50 marines and a few small craft. Extra crew in low berths. Backup computer and sensors.
"Hakkapeliitta" class Light Cruiser, 25 000 dT, Crew: 680, GCr 23.8
J-4, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: 16 medium Fusion bays (Long Range, ReducedSize), 2 small Ortillery bays (3*ReducedSize), 132 triple Particle (Accurate,HiYield) turrets.
Defences: Armour 15, 100 triple Pulse Laser (Accurate) turrets.
Code:
TL 15 HullP 12500 23 741
Desired Rat # dTonn Cost Power Hardp Crew
Hull 25000 5000 250
Config Streamlined 2 2 1500
Hull strength Standard 2 2
Armour Bonded Superdense 20 15 3000 1800
Rad Shielding 1 1 625
EM Shielding 1 1 500 1000
Stealth Stealth 1 1 2500
Repair Drones 1 1 250 50
JumpD VAdv,Stealth 4 4 1 2505 4697 10000 72
ManœuvreD VAdv,2*EneEff 9 9 1 2250 5625 11250 64
PowerP TL12,3*RedSize 1 1037 1556 22231 30
Drop Tank Collar 4 4 1 40 20
Fuel, Jump 4 4 1 10000
Fuel, Power 4 4 1 104
Fuel Purification 24 h 24 h 1 500 25
Command Bridge 1 1 80 188
Holographic 1 1 47
Comp CORE/100 50 100 1 130
Backup Comp CORE/50 fib 10 50 1 45
Evade/3 25 3
AdvFireControl/3 30 18
Point Defence/2 15 12
EW/3 20 24
AutoRepair/2 20 10
Sensors Advanced 9 4 2 10 11 6
Array Distributed 9 3 2 20 21
Extension Net
Shallow Penetration Suite 9 1 2 20 10 1
Signal Processing Enhanced 9 2 2 4 16 2
Countermeasures Military 9 2 2 30 56 2
Staterooms 100% 372 372 1488 186
Common Areas 25% 25% 1 372 37
Briefing Room 2 2 8 1
Library 2 2 8 8
Medical Bay 10% of crew 1 14 56 28
Workshop 2 2 12 2
Armoury 1 38 38 10
Training Facility 10 10 20 4 20
Brig 2 2 8 1
Low Berths 400 400 200 20 40
Cargo 549
Medium Bay
Fusion Very Advanced 16 TL14 16 1440 320 1280 16 32
Small Bay
Mass Driver HighTechnology 2 TL11 2 70 120 30 2 2
Turret
Particle HighTechnology 132 TL14 132 132 2508 3300 132 132
Pulse Laser Very Advanced 100 TL11 100 100 475 1300 100 100
Craft 35,5 dT Full Hangar 1 1 71 14 2
35,5 dT Docking Space 2 2 78 20 4
Crew 682
Command 62
Bridge 24
Pilot 3
Astrogator 1
Sensor & EW 20
Engineer 216
Engineer 165
Maintenance 50
Service 31
Admin 25
Medic 5,11667
Steward 0
Gunner 293
Flight 6
Troops 50AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Draft 3, after our spies told us that a potential enemy had heard of our reliance on fusion weapons and were planning to install nuclear dampers on their ships. Some "Firepower, dammit!" aligned admirals decried the lack of Big Guns which could threat bigger ships. As a result the fusion bays were scrapped and replaced with big "Crit Fisher" Particles. An extended sensor net was snuck back in when everybody else was heatedly arguing about armaments. Storage space was sacrificed.
The "Hakkapeliitta" is a true light cruiser intended for scouting and raiding, not pitched battle. Puts mobility first with J-4 and streamlining to be able to refuel quickly everywhere. Excellent sensors and ECM. Basic stealth and EM masking, stealth jump drive. Onboard storage (300 dT) for long patrols, possibly behind enemy lines. 50 marines and a few small craft. Extra crew in low berths. Backup computer and sensors.
"Hakkapeliitta" class Light Cruiser, 25 000 dT, Crew: 670, GCr 22 in bulk
J-4, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: 3 large particle bays (Accurate, High Yield), 2 small Ortillery bays (3*ReducedSize), 133 triple Particle (Accurate,HiYield) turrets.
Defences: Armour 15, 100 triple Pulse Laser (Long Range, High Yield) turrets.
The Large Particle bays has about 4% (at Very Long Range) chance of hitting and destroying something vital per shot. This will make warships and large merchantmen notice that they are shot at. A CruRon will seriously threaten a battleship.
Very light missile defences, if threatened by missile boats we will have to run away...
The "Hakkapeliitta" is a true light cruiser intended for scouting and raiding, not pitched battle. Puts mobility first with J-4 and streamlining to be able to refuel quickly everywhere. Excellent sensors and ECM. Basic stealth and EM masking, stealth jump drive. Onboard storage (300 dT) for long patrols, possibly behind enemy lines. 50 marines and a few small craft. Extra crew in low berths. Backup computer and sensors.
"Hakkapeliitta" class Light Cruiser, 25 000 dT, Crew: 670, GCr 22 in bulk
J-4, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: 3 large particle bays (Accurate, High Yield), 2 small Ortillery bays (3*ReducedSize), 133 triple Particle (Accurate,HiYield) turrets.
Defences: Armour 15, 100 triple Pulse Laser (Long Range, High Yield) turrets.
Code:
TL 15 HullP 12500 24 420
Desired Rat # dTonn Cost Power Hardp Crew
Hull 25000 5000 250
Config Streamlined 2 2 1500
Hull strength Standard 2 2
Armour Bonded Superdense 20 15 3000 1800
Rad Shielding 1 1 625
EM Shielding 1 1 500 1000
Stealth Stealth 1 1 2500
Repair Drones 1 1 250 50
JumpD VAdv,Stealth 4 4 1 2505 4697 10000 72
ManœuvreD VAdv,2*EneEff 9 9 1 2250 5625 11250 64
PowerP TL12,3*RedSize 1 1007 1510 21576 29
Drop Tank Collar 4 4 1 40 20
Fuel, Jump 4 4 1 10000
Fuel, Power 4 4 1 101
Fuel Purification 24 h 24 h 1 500 25
Command Bridge 1 1 80 188
Holographic 1 1 47
Comp CORE/100 50 100 1 130
Backup Comp CORE/50 fib 10 50 1 45
Evade/3 25 3
FireControl/5 25 10
AdvFireControl/3 30 18
Point Defence/2 15 12
EW/3 20 24
AutoRepair/2 20 10
Sensors Advanced 9 4 2 10 11 6
Array Distributed 9 3 2 20 21
Extension Net
Shallow Penetration Suite 9 1 2 20 10 1
Signal Processing Enhanced 9 2 2 4 16 2
Countermeasures Military 9 2 2 30 56 2
Staterooms 100% 366 366 1464 183
Common Areas 25% 25% 1 366 37
Briefing Room 2 2 8 1
Library 2 2 8 8
Medical Bay 10% of crew 1 14 56 28
Workshop 2 2 12 2
Armoury 1 38 38 10
Training Facility 10 10 20 4 20
Brig 2 2 8 1
Low Berths 340 340 170 17 34
Cargo 502
Large Bay
Particle HiTech:Acc,HiYield 3 TL14 3 1500 540 600 15 12
Small Bay
Mass Driver HiTech:3*SizeRed 2 TL11 2 70 120 30 2 2
Turret
Particle HiTech:Acc,HiYiel 133 TL14 133 133 2527 3325 133 133
Pulse Laser HiTech:LRan,HY 100 TL11 100 100 475 1300 100 100
Screen Meson
Nuclear Damp 3*Size 10 10 70 150 200 10
Craft 35,5 dT Full Hangar 1 1 71 14 2
35,5 dT Docking Space 2 2 78 20 4
Crew 670
Command 61
Bridge 37
Pilot 3
Astrogator 1
Sensor & EW 20
Engineer 215
Engineer 165
Maintenance 50
Service 31
Admin 25
Medic 5,025
Steward 0
Gunner 283
Flight 6
Troops 50 Very light missile defences, if threatened by missile boats we will have to run away...
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
And with better armament the Hakkapeliitta can even take on Chas' T2 destroyer. Well until next beta release when my weaponry will (hopefully) be nerfed...
So this is where I think the Imperial Navy ships of the line will have a sweet spot. I'll call this a 2+2 configuration. It's termed a battle cruiser because it's fast with a full J4 capability. It has jump 2 tanks which go with it, and it is M7 with them on. Still more than enough to get about to refuel and what not if having to make multijump voyages to get somewhere. Before arrival to a battle field the drop tanks get dropped and then the vessel is a true 100,000 ton ship with Jump 2 still on board i.e. it has the Jump 2 in and Jump 2 out capability. Typically the drop tanks get left behind at the last jump location before heading into battle to be recovered later.
I have a bunch of designs to come along in this vein and others using drop tanks which the Imperial Navy will be using to their fullest. This is a good start I think, it is not a true battle wagon, but this ship is definitely something more than a heavy cruiser by a healthy chunk, especially once it tips the scales at the 100K hull point bonus. Serious mobile firepower where a batron of these will be a major strategic element.
***
The Hades Battle Cruiser is an ugly blocky brute of ship that is aptly termed a flying brick.
As an interesting point of design once the spinals do get signed off on, it will be a tough choice with these builds just how much weight to allocate to the scaling spinal. Normally I would include a meson in this I think, but the largest particle is a good point of reference as I doubt it will want to go much more than this. Still have 500 tons spare for amoured bulkheads (jump drives or fuel excepted and let's see the final fall out of the crits) or some redundant systems. Still a couple of tweaks needed in that sheet.
(and where were those updated sensor operator rules again?)
I have a bunch of designs to come along in this vein and others using drop tanks which the Imperial Navy will be using to their fullest. This is a good start I think, it is not a true battle wagon, but this ship is definitely something more than a heavy cruiser by a healthy chunk, especially once it tips the scales at the 100K hull point bonus. Serious mobile firepower where a batron of these will be a major strategic element.
***
The Hades Battle Cruiser is an ugly blocky brute of ship that is aptly termed a flying brick.
As an interesting point of design once the spinals do get signed off on, it will be a tough choice with these builds just how much weight to allocate to the scaling spinal. Normally I would include a meson in this I think, but the largest particle is a good point of reference as I doubt it will want to go much more than this. Still have 500 tons spare for amoured bulkheads (jump drives or fuel excepted and let's see the final fall out of the crits) or some redundant systems. Still a couple of tweaks needed in that sheet.
(and where were those updated sensor operator rules again?)
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
Ingenious use of drop tanks, but operationally risky. One enemy destroyer in the wrong place and your drop tanks are history. Then you have to limp home to a major starport to make new tanks, not instant.
If you are surprised by enemy presence when you jump into a system you have to release your tanks for battle, if you then lose the battle your survivors have to jump out without the tanks.
The spinal rules does not say max 8DD particle, they say max 28000 dT. Guess how big a TL15 10DD particle spinal is?
I think you are light on missile defences. You can kill ~1725 missiles. If you just switched your armament for missile bays you would be able to launch 10000 missiles / attack. You need to be able to stop most of that...
If you are surprised by enemy presence when you jump into a system you have to release your tanks for battle, if you then lose the battle your survivors have to jump out without the tanks.
The spinal rules does not say max 8DD particle, they say max 28000 dT. Guess how big a TL15 10DD particle spinal is?
I think you are light on missile defences. You can kill ~1725 missiles. If you just switched your armament for missile bays you would be able to launch 10000 missiles / attack. You need to be able to stop most of that...
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
I would prefer to do something like this:
We can do J-3 with the tanks attached and arrive with the internal tanks full. We can do another J-2 on the internal tankage or another J-3 if we drop the tanks.
We can do J-4 if we drop the tanks and arrive with the internal tanks full. We can do another J-3 on the internal tankage.
This way we can operate normally with J-3, and if engaged in battle we drop the tanks and we can jump back out again.
Code:
TL 15 HullP 73333 81 969
Desired Rat # dTonn Cost Power Hardp Crew
Hull 100000 20000 1000
Config Close Structure 4 4 5500
Armour Bonded Superdense 20 15 12000 6600
JumpD VAdv,2*FuelEff 3 4 1 10279 19273 41096 294
ManœuvreD VAdv,2*EneEff 9 9 1 9000 22500 45000 257
PowerP 1 4124 8247 82470 118
Drop Tank Collar 3 3 1 148 74
Drop Tank 36986 dT 925
Fuel, Jump 3 3 1 27000
Fuel, Power 4 4 1 412
Fuel Purification 24 h 24 h 1 1350 68We can do J-4 if we drop the tanks and arrive with the internal tanks full. We can do another J-3 on the internal tankage.
This way we can operate normally with J-3, and if engaged in battle we drop the tanks and we can jump back out again.
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
I see that you could save a few GCr at very little cost in tonnage by using a size reduced jump drive, instead of fuel efficient.
(Jump Drives cost 1,5 MCr/ton, not 2).
(Jump Drives cost 1,5 MCr/ton, not 2).
I prefer the 2+2 mix for Hades. It's faster working J4 always in the critical internal repositioning of fleet elements in the Imperium or getting to the battle front in a timely fashion and definitely want to take the extra fire power that it provides, there's over 6000 tons difference in armaments between the two vessels. These are primarily space superiority designs to win a battle. And they won't be surprised by anything, except in some extraordinary circumstance, (which for the most part will be avoidable) not with the sensor drone mesh that all my fleets will be accompanied by :wink: They could be vulnerable to a special sniping run, but again, these are supposed to be a fleet element and will have supporting ships at need.
Take the point about the particle accelerator but what I've fitted in there is about as big as I think I want to put in regardless, though I'm happy to return to that discussion - it will be one of the key points of debate.
I'll wait for the barrage rules on missiles before rebuilding this. I'll come back to it and the balance of nuclear dampers as well. An all missile attack just using advanced missiles rather than nuclear is what I'm hoping will be the way it plays out at TL15 on a fleet scale. Though given the nature of the ship I probably will increase the missile defences but I'd see this ship as specifically being accompanied by PD escorts if these work out. Need to get a design up on that actually.
One other key point for discussion here is crew size. At the 100k level the crew really cut into the tonnage as the size overruns what you can do with software and the 2x gunners/hardpoint becomes a reality. That's actually the reason for the high missile turret numbers on the ship. You can Virtual Crew 0 these and then run your launch solution to get them off, saving a serious chunk of tons of staterooms. Again there's more tactical considerations here in terms of bandwidth available, but I'm seeing the ship launching missiles at very long range and above and then focusing on the spinals etc once in close. The actual balance here needs review, but again it's a very good argument for specialist ships and escort ships filling in niches to get the optimum match of capability. We need to see how this works going to super dreadnought level, but the crew numbers work against a ship from here on up.
Noted on the jump cost, thanks. One day, one cold frozen day in the firey pits of the nether regions, I'll have a sheet without any bugs in it. :evil:
Take the point about the particle accelerator but what I've fitted in there is about as big as I think I want to put in regardless, though I'm happy to return to that discussion - it will be one of the key points of debate.
I'll wait for the barrage rules on missiles before rebuilding this. I'll come back to it and the balance of nuclear dampers as well. An all missile attack just using advanced missiles rather than nuclear is what I'm hoping will be the way it plays out at TL15 on a fleet scale. Though given the nature of the ship I probably will increase the missile defences but I'd see this ship as specifically being accompanied by PD escorts if these work out. Need to get a design up on that actually.
One other key point for discussion here is crew size. At the 100k level the crew really cut into the tonnage as the size overruns what you can do with software and the 2x gunners/hardpoint becomes a reality. That's actually the reason for the high missile turret numbers on the ship. You can Virtual Crew 0 these and then run your launch solution to get them off, saving a serious chunk of tons of staterooms. Again there's more tactical considerations here in terms of bandwidth available, but I'm seeing the ship launching missiles at very long range and above and then focusing on the spinals etc once in close. The actual balance here needs review, but again it's a very good argument for specialist ships and escort ships filling in niches to get the optimum match of capability. We need to see how this works going to super dreadnought level, but the crew numbers work against a ship from here on up.
Noted on the jump cost, thanks. One day, one cold frozen day in the firey pits of the nether regions, I'll have a sheet without any bugs in it. :evil:
AnotherDilbert
Emperor Mongoose
I agree tactical surprise shouldn't be a problem. But if you jump into a system and the enemy jumps into the same system, perhaps a few days earlier, you do have a problem. Your intel of neighbouring systems are at best one week old.Chas said:
No you won't, that doesn't exist. Paranoia is your friend.Chas said:
Of course everything will change with the fleet scale rules. Hopefully the next beta will also fix crew requirements. I admit that I don't include two gunners per turret in my designs, I use one gunner per turret and add 10% to make sure I have enough gunners when I go to battle stations.