Cruisers!

A

AnotherDilbert

Emperor Mongoose
Light Meson Cruiser 33 kT, GCr 28
J-3, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Armament: Spinal Meson (base size), 150 triple particle turret.
Defences: Armour 15, 120 PD Batteries, Type III.
Code: 
TL 15                   Hull 16500                 27792,525      
                           Desired  Rat  #  dTonn   Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                        33000           6600    330  
Config  Streamlined             2    2              1980      
HullStrength Standard           2    2            
Armour BondedSuperdense        15   15       3960   2376      
Rad Shielding                   1    1               825      
Repair Drones                   1    1        330     66      
                  
JumpD Budget,Late               3    3   1   2480   2790    9900           71
ManœuvreD  VAdv,2*EneEff        9    9   1   2970   7425   14850           85
PowerP                                   1   1491   2981   29810           43
                  
Fuel, Jump                      3    3   1   9900        
Fuel, Power                     4    4   1    149        
Fuel Purification            24 h 24 h   1    495     25      
                  
Command Bridge                  1    1         80    248      
    Holographic                 1    1                62      
Comp         CORE/100          30  100   1           130      
Backup Comp  m/35               7   35   1            30 
    /fib                        1    1                80      
                  
Sensors Advanced                9    4   2     10     11       6    
Array Distributed               9    3   2     40     42      
Extension Net                   9    1   1    330    330      
Signal Processing Enhanced      9    2   2      4     16       2    
Countermeasures Military        9    2   2     30     56       2    
                  
Staterooms                   100%  384 384   1536    192      
Common Areas                  25%  25%   1    384     38      
Cargo                                         501        
                  
Spinal  Meson                   1    1   1   6000   2600    1000     60    60
Turret                  
Particle HiTech:Acc,HiYield   150 TL14 150    150   2850    3750    150   150
                  
Point Defence Type III, 3D    120      120   2160   2640    3600    120  
                  
                  
Crew                703              
  Command            64              
  Bridge              4              
      Pilot                 3            
      Astrogator            1            
  Sensor & EW        50              
  Engineer          265              
      Engineer            198            
      Maintenance          66            
  Service            39  
      Admin                33
      Medic                 5,275
      Steward               0
  Gunner            231  
  Flight    
  Troops             50
Basic meson spinal ship. Heavy missile defences. 150 turrets to at least be able to hurt smaller ships and fighters.

I haven't specified medical bays and workshops but I left 500 dT free for such, supplies, or small craft.

It's a very basic design used to benchmark other designs in the simulator.
 
Light Missile Cruiser 25 kT, GCr 37 including full load of nuclear missiles
J-3, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Armament: 55 medium missile bays, 75 missile turrets.
Defences: Armour 15, 120 PD Batteries, Type III.
Code: 
TL 15                   Hull 13750                 36701,45      
                           Desired  Rat  #  dTonn   Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                        25000           5000    250  
Config  Streamlined             2    2       2125      
Hull strength  Reinforced       3    3            
Armour  Bonded Superdense      15   15       3000   2550      
Rad Shielding                   1    1               625      
Repair Drones                   1    1        250     50      
                  
JumpD Budget,Late               3    3   1   1880   2115    7500           54
ManœuvreD VAdv,2*EneEff         9    9   1   2250   5625   11250           64
PowerP                                   1   1024   2049   20485           29
                  
Fuel, Jump                      3    3   1   7500        
Fuel, Power                     4    4   1    102        
Fuel Purification            24 h 24 h   1    375     19      
                  
Command Bridge                  1    1         80    188      
    Holographic                 1    1                47      
Comp         CORE/100          30  100   1           130      
Backup Comp  m/35              29   35   1            30      
    /fib                        1    1                80      
                  
Sensors  Advanced               9    4   2     10     11       6    
Array  Distributed              9    3   2     40     42      
Extension Net                   9    1   1    250    250      
Signal Processing  Enhanced     9    2   2      4     16       2    
Countermeasures  Military       9    2   2     30     56       2    
                  
Staterooms                   100%  322 322   1288    161      
Common Areas                  25%  25%   1    322     32      
Cargo          532        
                  
 
Medium Bay                  
Missile  HiTech,3*RedSize      55 TL10  55   3850  16319     550     55   110
Turret                  
Missile  HiTech,3*RedSize      75 TL10  75     53   1543      75     75    75
                  
Point Defence  Type III, 3D  120    120  2160  2640  3600  120  
               
                  
                  
Crew             590              
  Command         54              
  Bridge           4              
      Pilot              3            
      Astrogator         1            
  Sensor & EW     50              
  Engineer       198              
      Engineer         147            
      Maintenance       50            
  Service         30  
      Admin             25
      Medic              4,425
      Steward            0
  Gunner         204  
  Flight    
  Troops          50
Basic missile ship. Heavy missile defences. Can launch 1545 missiles per attack step.

I haven't specified medical bays and workshops but I left 500 dT free for such, supplies, or small craft.

It's a very basic design used to benchmark other designs in the simulator.
 
To illustrate the point of the thread "Modular Spinal Mount?":

Light Modular Cruiser 34 kT, GCr 24.5
J-3, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Armament: One 6000 dT module, 145 triple particle turret.
Defences: Armour 15, two 1000 dT modules.
Code: 
TL 15                    HullP 17000           24229,725    
                       Desired  Rat  #  dTonn   Cost   Power  Hardp
Hull                                    34000           6800    340
Config  Streamlined         2    2              2520    
HullStrength Standard       2    2          
Armour BondedSuperdense    15   15       4080   3024    
Rad Shielding               1    1               850    
Repair Drones               1    1        340     68    
                
JumpD Budget,Late           3    3   1   2555   2874   10200  
ManœuvreD VAdv,2*EneEff     9    9   1   3060   7650   15300  
PowerP                               1   1568   3136   31355  
                
Fuel, Jump                  3    3   1  10200      
Fuel, Power                 4    4   1    157      
Fuel Purification        24 h 24 h   1    510     26    
                
Command Bridge              1    1         80    255    
    Holographic             1    1                64    
Comp         CORE/100      30  100   1           130    
Backup Comp  m/35           7   35   1            30    
    /fib                    1    1                80    
                
Sensors  Advanced           9    4   2     10     11       6  
Array  Distributed          9    3   2     40     42    
Extension Net               9    1   1    340    340    
Signal Processing Enhanced  9    2   2      4     16       2  
Countermeasures  Military   9    2   2     30     56       2  
                
Staterooms               100%  506 506   2024    253    
Common Areas              25%  25%   1    506     51    
Cargo          351      

6000 dT Offensive Module    1    1       6000           2320     85
1000 dT Defensive Module    2    2       2000           3300    110
                
Turret                
Particle HiTech,Acc,HiYi  145 TL14 145    145   2755    3625    145

    
    
Module Meson Spinal                  1   6000   2600    1000     60
SUM                                      6000   2600    1000     60
                
Module Particle Spinal               2   5600   2600    2000     56
    Med Fusion Bay                   4    400     96     320      4
SUM                                      6000   2696    2320     60
                
Module Missile Large Bay            17   5950  14204     850     85
SUM                                      5950  14203,5   850     85
                
                
                
Module PD  PD Battery               55    990   1210    1650     55
SUM                                       990   1210    1650     55
                
Module Meson Screen                100   1000   2000    1500    100
SUM                                      1000   2000    1500    100
                
Boat Bay  35 dT Fighter Hangar      14    980    196             70
SUM                                       980    196             70
                
                
                
Crew              927  
  Command          85  
  Bridge            4  
      Pilot               3
      Astrogator          1
  Sensor & EW      50  
  Engineer        274  
      Engineer          205
      Maintenance        68
  Service          41  
      Admin              34
      Medic               6,95833
      Steward             0
  Gunner          473  
  Flight    
  Troops            0
Basic cruiser. 145 turrets to at least be able to hurt smaller ships and fighters.

Offensive 6000 dT modules include:
Meson spinal: Basic meson spinal, 1000 Power, 60 Gunners, MCr 2600
Particle spinal: Double spinal spinal, 4 Medium Fusion Bay, 2320 Power, 60 Gunners, MCr 2700
Missile: 17 Large Missile Bay, 850 Power, 17 Gunners, MCr 14200 with missiles

Defensive 1000 dT modules include:
PD: 55 PD Batteries, 1650 Power, 0 Gunners, MCr 1210
Meson Screen: 100 Meson Screens, 1500 Power, 100 Gunners, MCr 2000
Boat Bay: 14 fighters à 35 dT, 70 Flight Crew, MCr 750 with fighters
Missile: 14 Medium Missile Bays, 14 Gunners, 140 Power, MCr 2340 with missiles

I haven't specified medical bays and workshops but I left 400 dT free for such, supplies, or small craft.
 
And for comparison a battleship, but is basically the same as my cruisers but bigger.

Light Particle Battleship 135 kT, Crew: 2500, GCr 105
J-3, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: Spinal Particle (10DD), 520 triple particle turret.
Defences: Armour 15, ten 1000 dT modules.
Code: 
TL 15             HullP 90000                104 305      
                      Desired  Rat  #   dTonn   Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                   135000          27000   1350  
Config Streamlined        2     2               8700      
HullStrength  Standard    2     2            
Armour BondedSuperdense  15    15       16200  10440      
Rad Shielding             1     1               3375      
                  
JumpD Budget,Late         3     3   1   10130  11396   40500          289
ManœuvreD  VAdv,2*EneEff  9     9   1   12150  30375   60750          347
PowerP                              1    7189  14377  143770          197
                  
Drop Tank Collar          3     3   1     162     81      
Fuel, Jump                3     3   1   40500        
Fuel, Power               4     4   1     689        
Fuel Purification      24 h  24 h   1    2025    101      
                  
Command Bridge            1         1      80   1013      
    Holographic           1         1            253      
Comp         CORE/100    30   100   1            130      
Backup Comp  CORE/90     19    90   1             30      
    /fib                  1         1             80      
                  
Sensors  Advanced         9     4   2      10     11       6    
Array  Distributed        9     3   2      40     42      
Extension Net                  
SignalProcessing Enhanced 9     2   2       4     16       2    
Countermeasures  Military 9     2   2      30     56       2    
                  
Staterooms             100%  1364 1364   5456    682      
Common Areas            12%   12%   1     655     65      
Briefing Room            10        10      40      5      
Library                  10        10      40     40      
Medical Bay 10% of crew   1        50     200    100      
Workshop                 10        10      60      9      
Armoury                   1       100     200     50      
Brig                     10        10      40      3      
Low Berths              100       100      50      5      10    
Cargo                                     501        
                  
1000 dT Module           10        10   10000          33000    550  
                  
Spinal  Particle         10   10    1   28000  13000   10000    280   280
Turret Accurate,HYield              
Particle HiTechnology   520 TL14  520     520   9880   13000    520   520
                  
Crew              2500              
  Command          228              
  Bridge             4              
      Pilot                3
      Astrogator           1
  Sensor & EW      130  
  Engineer        1104  
      Engineer           833
      Maintenance        270
  Service          154  
      Admin              135
      Medic               18,775
      Steward              0
  Gunner           880  
  Flight    
  Troops             0
500 dT free for supplies and small craft.

For defences or special purposes ten 1000 dT modules are provided for. Power is available for all modules. Modules must include living space for any crew.

Modules include:
PD: 55 PD Batteries, Type III, MCr 1210
Meson Screen: 110 Meson Screens, MCr 3328
Nuclear Damper: 110 Dampers, MCr 1678
Fighter Bay: 12 Fighters (35 dT), MCr 188 w/o fighters
Drone Bay: 500 drones (1.8 dT), MCr 2700 w drones
Missile Bay: 426 missiles/attack, MCr 665 + MCr 2300 for the missiles
Boat Bay: 500 dT hangars, 100 staterooms, 100 dT cargo, MCr 150
Flag Bridge: Flag bridge, spacious quarters for 100 officers, 200 dT boat bay, MCr 185
Barracks: Barracks for a light battalion (370 men), MCr 88
Code: 
                                    #   dTonn   Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
                  
Module PD   PD Battery, Type III   55     990   1210    1650     55  
SUM                                       990   1210    1650     55  

                  
Module Meson Screen               110     770   3300    3300          110
       Staterooms                  55     220     28      
SUM                                       990   3328    3300          110
 
 
Module Nuclear Damper             110     770   1650    2200          110
       Staterooms                  55     220     28      
SUM                                       990   1678    2200          110

                  
Fighter Bay  Fighter Hangar 35 dT  12     840    168                   60
             Staterooms            40     160     20      
SUM                                      1000    188                   60
 
 
Boat Bay  Boat Hangar                     500    100      
          Staterooms                      400     50      
          Cargo                           100        
SUM                                      1000    150   
 
 
Drone Bay  Docking space          500    1000    200      
           1.8 dT Drones          500           2500      
SUM                                      1000   2700 
                  
Missile    Large Bay                2     700    375     100     10     2
           Medium Bay               2     140     75      20      2     2
           Small Bay                1      35     18       5      1     1
           Turret                  42      29    185      42     42    42
           Staterooms              24      96     12      
           Missiles              5112           2300      
SUM                                      1000   2965     167     55    47 
                  
Flag Bridge  Command Bridge         1      80    100      
             Briefing Room         30     120     15      
             Staterooms           100     400     50      
             Common Areas         50%     200     20      
             Boat Bay                     200        
SUM                                      1000    185      
                  
Barracks Bay  Barracks            350     700     35      
              Staterooms           12      48      6      
              Armoury              75      75     19      
              Briefing Room         5      20      3      
              Medical Bay           4      16      8      4    
              Traning Facility     40      80     16     40    
              Brig                  6      24      2      
              Cargo                        37        
SUM                               374    1000     88     44 
                  
Extended Ops Collaps Fuel Tank   1000      10      1      
             Cargo                        990        
SUM                                      1000      1
 
Watching this with interest. I've done a series of these but the sheets are all mucked up and I'll wait for the rules to firm up a bit before finalizing. Though I'm working around with some designs where I see the final ship design options going.

Just one point AnotherDilbert, any chance to ask to leave out the particle turrets and the other stuff from the High Technology chapter? It'll be easier to compare and if you start including one thing then meson bays etc might all get thrown in and the whole relative balance gets shot down.

I think it's also quite informative that you are making everything Jump 3. For this edition of Mongoose this is where I think ships will standardize for the Imperial Navy. There'll be longer cruise variants at Jump 4. And other specific variants which I'll bang up a few on, but for day to day space build J3 is where it is at.
 
Chas said:
Just one point AnotherDilbert, any chance to ask to leave out the particle turrets and the other stuff from the High Technology chapter? It'll be easier to compare and if you start including one thing then meson bays etc might all get thrown in and the whole relative balance gets shot down.
Click to expand...
I have thought about it, but currently they are available, and the alternatives (Missile turret, Fusion barbette) are not enticing.
Chas said:
I think it's also quite informative that you are making everything Jump 3. For this edition of Mongoose this is where I think ships will standardize for the Imperial Navy. There'll be longer cruise variants at Jump 4. And other specific variants which I'll bang up a few on, but for day to day space build J3 is where it is at.
Click to expand...
Yes, J-4 is very expensive. I have even played with J-2 missile boats, in an effort to make them more economical.

Since missiles are so expensive it might make more sense with J-4 missile boats, but they will fail against even half-hearted PD.
 
The same battleship but with J-4

Particle Battleship 345 kT, Crew: 6500, GCr 265
J-4, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: Spinal Particle (10DD), 1795 triple particle turret.
Defences: Armour 15, 25 1000 dT modules.
Code: 
TL 15                  HullP 230000               263 784      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                       345000          69000   3450  
Config  Streamlined          2     2               22200      
HullStrength  Standard       2     2            
Armour BondedSuperdense     15    15        41400  26640      
Rad Shielding                1     1                8625      

JumpD  Budget,Late           4     4    1   34505  38818  138000          986
ManœuvreD  VAdv,2*EneEff     9     9    1   31050  77625  155250          887
PowerP                                  1   18082  36165  361645          517

Drop Tank Collar             4     4    1     552    276      
Fuel, Jump                   4     4    1  138000        
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1    1808        
Fuel Purification         24 h  24 h    1    6900    345      
                  
Command Bridge               1          1      80   2588      
    Holographic              1          1            647      
Comp  CORE/100              30   100    1            130      
Backup Comp  CORE/90        19    90    1             30      
    /fib                     1          1             80      
                  
Sensors  Advanced            9     4    2      10     11       6    
Array  Distributed           9     3    2      40     42      
Extension Net                  
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2    2       4     16       2    
Countermeasures  Military    9     2    2      30     56       2    
                  
Staterooms                100%  3531 3531   14124   1766      
Common Areas               12%   12%    1    1695    169      
Briefing Room               10         10      40      5      
Library                     10         10      40     40      
Medical Bay 10% of crew      1        130     520    260      
Workshop                    10         10      60      9      
Armoury                      1        259     518    130      
Brig                        10         10      40      3      
Low Berths                 100        100      50      5      10    
Cargo                                         657        
                  
1000 dT Module              25         25   25000          82500   1375  
                  
Spinal  Particle            10    10    1   28000  13000   10000    280   280
Turret Accurate,HYield                   
Particle  HighTechnology  1795  TL14 1795    1795  34105   44875   1795  1795    
  
  
Crew              6472  
  Command          589  
  Bridge             4  
      Pilot                3
      Astrogator           1
  Sensor & EW      122  
  Engineer        3080  
      Engineer          2390
      Maintenance        690
  Service          394  
      Admin              345
      Medic               48,6167
      Steward              0
  Gunner          2283  
  Flight    
  Troops             0
So, 250% the size and cost to deliver the same spinal to battle... J-4 is problematical.
 
And the same battleship at J-2

Light Particle Battleship 100 kT, Crew: 1800, GCr 77
J-2, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: Spinal Particle (10DD), 335 triple particle turret.
Defences: Armour 15, seven 1000 dT modules.
Code: 
TL 15              HullP 66666                     76 883      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                       100000           20000   1000  
Config  Streamlined          2     2                 6420      
HullStrength  Standard       2     2            
Armour BondedSuperdense     15    15        12000    7704      
Rad Shielding                1     1                 2500      
                  
JumpD Budget,Late            2     2    1    5005    5631   20000         143
ManœuvreD  VAdv,2*EneEff     9     9    1    9000   22500   45000         257
PowerP                                  1    5325   10650  106495         152
                  
Drop Tank Collar             2     2    1      80      40      
Fuel, Jump                   2     2    1   20000        
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1     532        
Fuel Purification         24 h  24 h    1    1000      50      
                  
Command Bridge               1          1      80   2588      
    Holographic              1          1            647      
Comp  CORE/100              30   100    1            130      
Backup Comp  CORE/90        19    90    1             30      
    /fib                     1          1             80      
                  
Sensors  Advanced            9     4    2      10     11       6    
Array  Distributed           9     3    2      40     42      
Extension Net                  
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2    2       4     16       2    
Countermeasures  Military    9     2    2      30     56       2    
                  
Staterooms                100%  1002 1002    4008    501      
Common Areas               12%   12%    1     481     48      
Briefing Room               10         10      40      5      
Library                     10         10      40     40      
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1         37     148     74      
Workshop                    10         10      60      9      
Armoury                      1         74     148     37      
Brig                        10         10      40      3      
Low Berths                 100        100      50      5      10    
Cargo                                6544        
                  
1000 dT Module    7    7  7000    23100  385  
                  
Spinal  Particle            10    10    1   28000  13000   10000    280   280
Turret Accurate,HYield                   
Particle HighTechnology    335  TL14  335     335   6365    8375    335   335

                  
Crew              1837  
  Command          167  
  Bridge             4  
      Pilot                3
      Astrogator           1
  Sensor & EW      122  
  Engineer         753  
      Engineer           552
      Maintenance        200
  Service          114  
      Admin              100
      Medic               13,8
      Steward              0
  Gunner           677  
  Flight    
  Troops             0
It should be 87 kT and GCr 70.5, but that would lose too many Hullpoints.

So, generally a J-3 ship is 150% the cost of a J-2 ship with the same spinal.
 
The same ship in light cruiser size:

Light Particle Cruiser 30 kT, Crew: 680, GCr 24
J-3, 9G, Armour 15, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: Spinal Particle (2DD), 134 triple particle turret.
Defences: Armour 15, two 1000 dT modules.
Code: 
TL 15               HullP 15000            23 516      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                        30000            6000    300  
Config  Streamlined          2     2                 1920      
HullStrength Standard        2     2            
Armour BondedSuperdense     15    15         3600    2304      
Rad Shielding                1     1                  750      
                  
JumpD  Budget,Late           3     3    1    2255    2537    9000          64
ManœuvreD VAdv,2*EneEff      9     9    1    2700    6750   13500          77
PowerP                                  1    1573    3147   31465          45
                  
Drop Tank Collar             3     3    1      36      18      
Fuel, Jump                   3     3    1    9000        
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1     157        
Fuel Purification         24 h  24 h    1     450      23      
                  
Command Bridge               1          1      80     225      
    Holographic              1          1              56      
Comp         CORE/100       30   100    1             130      
Backup Comp  CORE/90        19    90    1              30      
    /fib                     1          1              80      
                  
Sensors  Advanced            9     4    2      10     11        6    
Array  Distributed           9     3    2      40     42      
Extension Net                  
Signal Processing  Enhanced  9     2    2       4     16        2    
Countermeasures  Military    9     2    2      30     56        2    

Staterooms                100%   371  371    1484    186      
Common Areas               12%   12%    1     178     18      
Briefing Room                5          5      20      3      
Library                      5          5      20     20      
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1         14      56     28      
Workshop                     5          5      30      5      
Armoury                      1         28      56     14      
Brig                         5          5      20      1      
Low Berths                  50         50      25      3        5    
Cargo                                 441        
                  
1000 dT Module               2          2    2000            6600    110  
                  
Spinal  Particle             2     2    1    5600   2600     2000     56   56
        
TurTurret Accurate,HYieldret                  
Particle HighTechnology    134  TL14  134     134   2546     3350    134  134


                  
Crew               680  
  Command           62  
  Bridge             4  
      Pilot                3
      Astrogator           1
  Sensor & EW      122  
  Engineer         247  
      Engineer           187
      Maintenance         60
  Service           36  
      Admin               30
      Medic                5,1
      Steward              0
  Gunner           209  
  Flight    
  Troops             0
 
And the same cruiser at TL 12:

Light Particle Cruiser, TL 12, 30 kT, Crew: 800, GCr 17
J-3, 7G, Armour 12, streamlined and fuel purification for wilderness refuelling.
Drop tank collar included for occasional rift passing.
Armament: Spinal Particle (2DD), 237 triple pulse laser turrets.
Defences: Armour 12, 237 triple pulse laser turrets.
Code: 
TL 12                  HullP 15000                 16 928      
                         Desired  Rat   #   dTonn    Cost   Power  Hardp  Crew
Hull                                        30000            6000    300  
Config  Streamlined          2     2                 1800      
Hull strength  Standard      2     2            
Armour  Crystaliron         20    12         4500    1080      
Rad Shielding                1     1                  750      
                  
JumpD  Budget,Late           3     3    1    2255    2537    9000          64
ManœuvreD                    9     7    1    2100    4200   21000          60
PowerP                                  1    2140    2140   32093          61
                  
Drop Tank Collar             3     3    1      36      18      
Fuel, Jump                   3     3    1    9000        
Fuel, Power                  4     4    1     214        
Fuel Purification         24 h  24 h    1     450      23      
                  
Command Bridge               1          1      80     225      
    Holographic              1          1      56      
Comp         CORE/70        14    70    1              80      
Backup Comp  CORE/60        13    60    1              30      
    /fib                     1          1              55      
                  
Sensors  Improved            9     3    2       6       9       4    
Array  Distributed           9     3    2      24      34      
Extension Net                  
Signal Processing  Improved  9     1    2       2       8       1    
                  
Staterooms                100%   444  444    1776     222      
Common Areas               12%   12%    1     213      21      
Briefing Room                5          5      20       3      
Library                      5          5      20      20      
Medical Bay  10% of crew     1         17      68      34      
Workshop                     5          5      30       5      
Armoury                      1         33      66      17      
Brig                         5          5      20       1      
Low Berths                  50         50      25       3       5    
Cargo                                 388        
                  
Spinal  Particle             2     2    1    6300    2200    2000     63   63

Turret                  
Pulse Laser HighTechnology 237  TL12  237     237    1304    3081    237  237

                  
                  
Crew               813  
  Command           74  
  Bridge             4  
      Pilot                3
      Astrogator           1
  Sensor & EW      122  
  Engineer         246  
      Engineer           186
      Maintenance         60
  Service           37  
      Admin               30
      Medic                6,1
      Steward              0
  Gunner           330  
  Flight    
  Troops             0
Surprisingly, it came out the same size as the TL 15 version.

The TL 15 version is 50% more expensive for the same weapon and Hull, ouch. GCr 5 of the difference is cheaper low performance hull and drives, the TL15 ship can do that too. So, no problem...
 
This is fascinating and I'm sure completely not intentional.

It is in-line with imperial history and fleet effectiveness. Pound for pound they seem to lose and as the frontier wars are any indication, the battles go as follows:

A) War starts
B) Imperium losing
C) Imperium moves up more fleets
D) Imperium warmachine triumphs/forces ceasefire

This is exactly what happened with the solomani rim war too.
It kind of reminds me of 40k "imperial guard" - sure they may suck on a point for point value comparison vs other armies... but it doesn't matter because the Imperium has a ton of more "points".

This also further supports the reality of why it is non-trivial to simply invade and annihilate any smaller polity they run into.
 
The Admiralty likes big jump-drives. Having bigger jump-drives than anyone else is the ultimate prestige. The Imperium have always won with battleships with big jump-drives and spinals, so it must be a superior strategy. Bigger battleships must obviously be better, look at the Tigress!

The Core fleet likes big battleships because commanding a 300 kT battleship is more prestigious than commanding a 100 kT battleship.

The frontal fleets like big battleships, because when the Admiralty sends you a BatRon it sends you a BatRon, whatever the cost of the ships.

The Imperial defence industry likes big jump-drives, the entire ship costs a lot more. Bonuses all around.

The Imperial Moot doesn't care; When the Navy orders a few hundred battleships the cost is insignificant compared to the Imperial budget, and the lobbyists are forthcoming with "campaign contributions" and people back home in the constituencies are happy with military orders to local shipyards.
 
The Imperial Navy likes big jump ships because it can't run a vast empire without high jumping vessels. Somehow these ships have to be spread all over the immense 3rd Imperium and then if there is a flash point, they have to be able to bring their fighting units together to face it. Without high jump vessels the Imperial Navy just gets scattered like sand on a beach and an enemy can choose where ever they want to focus their attentions in a far more effective manner.

There are multiple reasons why the Imperium might initially lose a war, not least because the enemy has specifically planned for how to defeat what is in front of them.

Cost is a good benchmark but as Matt has said not necessarily the bottom line. However I'm very interested to see the TL12 vs TL15 match ups. Don't want to get into too much discussion now but I do hope when the fleet battles come out the more expensive TL15 same jump ships soundly rout the TL12 same jump versions, for whatever reason.
 
One of the key points as well AnotherDilbert is the Jump distance requirements. J4 is the strategic jump distance required to cover outliers and assist fleets in quicker movement across the ridiculously large (but cool imperium).

Meanwhile, you look at the Zhodani Consulate and it seems J-3 is standard. Perhaps even less for the k'kree with their decentralized style and massively dense empire.

I like how you articulate the political aspects though :)
You don't care about having competitive pound-for-pound designs when your budget is possibly magnitudes higher.
 
:lol: :p

There's also an important tactical aspect as well. Jump 4 is Jump 2 in and Jump 2 out. Which opens up a lot more 'safe' battle opportunities. The line of retreat is critical.
 
Rationally I cannot get over that you get more than twice as many ships with J-3.

The Imperium can have as many ships "not all that far away" with J-3 as they can have ships in the entire Imperium with J-4. That way it would actually be quicker to concentrate a fleet, and when that ginormous fleet is defeated you have another one (at the other end of the Imperium).

From Capital there are rough estimate 120-150 parsec to either Spinward Marches or Solomani Rim, that is about 50 jump-3 or 35 jump-4, so that is 9 months instead of 12 months transport time. Those 3 months may be important but will not make up for having half as many ships.

Chas said:
There's also an important tactical aspect as well. Jump 4 is Jump 2 in and Jump 2 out. Which opens up a lot more 'safe' battle opportunities. The line of retreat is critical.
Click to expand...
This is a much better argument for J-4.
 
If you want the absolute best bang for the buck look at someone with their back to the wall, who has used their army recently, and expects to NEED their army to survive in the near future. If I wanted to benchmark "bang for the buck" I would look at the Israelis, not the big, fat, and happy Western armies. I have not looked at any actual numbers, so that is nothing but a WAG, of course.
 
AnotherDilbert said:
Rationally I cannot get over that you get more than twice as many ships with J-3.
Click to expand...
What basis are you using AnotherDilbert? Getting equivalent firepower into a J4 vs. J3 cruiser? That you can build J3 at budget while you are using all tech upgrades for J4?
 
Chas said:
What basis are you using AnotherDilbert? Getting equivalent firepower into a J4 vs. J3 cruiser? That you can build J3 at budget while you are using all tech upgrades for J4?
Click to expand...
The same spinal (so firepower), the same tech upgrades, just bigger to accommodate more jump fuel. Basically I seem to be getting X tons + 80% overhead (J3) versus X tons + 90% overhead (J4).

Maybe I should be more aggressive with tech upgrades to shrink the J4 ship?
 
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