Cost of Mongoose PDFs

[Imajica]

Love Traveller, would love to get the PDFs... But.

Traveller core rulebook, £18.99 at www.iguk.co.uk
Traveller Pocket rulebook, £9.49, same site.
Traveller core PDF, £18.62

So why do I buy the PDF? Where's the saving for not having dead tree? Can't really justify a saving of 37p as a good reason for not having a hardcopy, can I?

The price difference is small on the rest of them as well - £14.19 for the hardcopy versus £13.96 for 760 Patrons and Spinward Marches, but better for Mercenary, High Guard and Gunboats & Traders at £11.63.

I know the pound is comparatively weak against the dollar right now but this does seem almost Wizards of the Coats-esque in pricing.

And I know this sounds like a rant or a dig but I do prefer these days to get the PDFs where possible.

 

[AKAramis]

Those prices are roughly commensurate to the US$ prices I just paid...

Given that £1 is roughly $1.55...

It was $26 and $17

 

[Myrm]

Well, this is a bit apples and oranges on the comparison, the list price on Mongoose's website for the main rulebook print edition is 25 quid and the pocket edition is 15quid list. My rulebook says 39.95USD on the back - in the current market thats 26quid or so....so this isnt a problem of the pdf people selling high - its an issue of IGUK cutting the price of the print product below RRP thus appearing good compared to a competitor in the same market place (the PDF seller). I would expect to see that in some areas - particularly those places without a street retail outlet who might have a bit more ability to cut prices. You are not comparing the items from the same supplier - thus they are subject to competition factors.

A brief search of my favourite UK suppliers offers a range of prices for the main rulebook between 20 and 25GBP plus delivery for the product. I found no-one else as low as the price you quote at IGUK.

Compared to list price on Mongoose (the manufacturer) you are saving 25% for not having dead tree on the item cost alone.

Second that price includes 2nd Class UK delivery, 1st class adds 1.50 and One day delivery adds over 5quid. Costs that are not necessary for the PDF and you get the PDF - now (well time to download).

I think all this shows is that currently iguk are giving fine deals on Traveller stuff....not that PDF suppliers are stiffing you.

 

[lastbesthope]

I think all this shows is that currently iguk are giving fine deals on Traveller stuff....not that PDF suppliers are stiffing you.

The publishing equivalent of Days of Thunder :lol:

LBH

 

[AKAramis]

Considering that cover prices are typically 400% to 800% of manufacturing cost, and e-pubs drop the distributor from the publisher-retailer-distributor chain...

Most Retailers pay just over half cover to distributors for books. Most distributors mark up between 50% and 150%. Most companies add 10% to 100% over cost to produce when selling to distributors.

Charging 60% of cover is excessive IF the goal is simply elimination of printing costs; 25-35% is far more appropriate given publishing cost norms.

I paid $3 for a PDF of a $9.95 book; I feel that was fair, and I know that the author made just as much off of me.

I paid $5 for a PDF of a $45 book; bit low, but the book is large and has a small run, and the profit margin is probably similar.

BTVS, I paid $28 for a PDF of a $40 book. I felt it was excessive, but I couldn't get the physical book anyway.

 

[vertigo25]

You need to also take in to account that there is no supply cost for PDF.

Each time you sell a printed book, that's one less book you have to sell… one *more* book you have to pay to get printed to sell again.

The PFD, on the other hand, has an infinite supply. Some PDF retailers may charge you some kind of hosting fee, but most just take a bit off the top when they sell.

There's really no comparison of print sales models to digital sales models.

Mongoose's PDF prices are ridiculous.

 

[MongooseMatt]

There's really no comparison of print sales models to digital sales models.

The content is the same, and content is what you are really paying for - overall, content takes up a far greater percentage of the costs than printing alone.

 

[vertigo25]

There's really no comparison of print sales models to digital sales models.

The content is the same, and content is what you are really paying for - overall, content takes up a far greater percentage of the costs than printing alone.

I agree that content has an implicit value. No doubt. But when it comes to print publication, that is decidedly *not* what you are paying for. The hardback of Shadow Country by Peter Matthiessen is roughly the same price as the latest Harry Potter book. Now we could argue all day which is better, or more important, etc… but the point is that they're similarly priced only because they are similarly formatted.

Also consider that you *can* get some of Mongoose's rules completely for free by downloading the SDK.

Simple supply and demand says that a PDF should be *significantly* less than a printed version of the same thing.

Which is why, in short, I'll own the unformatted SDK (and possibly format it myself… I should put that graphic design training to *some* use ), but will most likely not buy any Mongoose PDFs until the price comes down greatly.

 

[dorward]

I just placed an order with Big Finish, and six double CDs will be winging their way towards me very shortly (well, five will, the sixth hasn't been released yet, I just got to this subscription late).

One that that I wasn't expecting, and worried me for a bit before I got the order conformation email which explained, was that they bundled the mp3 subscription with the order.

So I thought I had the choice between MP3 (for £60) and CD (for £70), but it turned out that I was getting content (£60) in MP3 format with copies on CD for an extra £10.

I was rather impressed by this approach, its a very good deal. It also means that having forked out for the hard copy, I could get the content in electronic format immediately and start enjoying it without waiting on the royal mail (or International shipping if I didn't live in the UK).

I wonder if Mongoose might consider bundle deals of the hard copy and electronic versions of their projects?

 

[Lt. Cmdr. Jim]

So I thought I had the choice between MP3 (for £60) and CD (for £70), but it turned out that I was getting content (£60) in MP3 format with copies on CD for an extra £10.

I was rather impressed by this approach, its a very good deal. It also means that having forked out for the hard copy, I could get the content in electronic format immediately and start enjoying it without waiting on the royal mail (or International shipping if I didn't live in the UK).

I wonder if Mongoose might consider bundle deals of the hard copy and electronic versions of their projects?

I'd say the key issue is distributing the unique authorisation with the book. Big Finish is selling direct to you, so they know who to give files to. Mongoose is selling hardcopy via several retailers, so it becomes harder to work out who should get a PDF. It might be easier to just ship a disc along with the book.

Presuming the implementation could be solved, I think this is an excelent way of adding value and giving MGP a good rep with their customers, and at little cost (I'm assuming that distribution of the PDF is cheap, and that there's not much of a market in selling PDFs to book owners).

 

[Burger]

A unique "download code" printed in each book would be a good way of allowing book owners to have the PDF for free.

I agree though, to buy the PDF should cost significantly less than to buy the book. I guess it is because Mongoose want to encourage the hobby and support the retailers by encouraging you to buy the book.

 

[AndrewW]

A unique "download code" printed in each book would be a good way of allowing book owners to have the PDF for free.

Though then you have the problem of some just flipping through the book in a store and getting the code, you buy the book and find it already used.

 

[Burger]

A unique "download code" printed in each book would be a good way of allowing book owners to have the PDF for free.

Though then you have the problem of some just flipping through the book in a store and getting the code, you buy the book and find it already used.

Scratch panel?
Shrink-wrap?

There are many ways to overcome such things.

 

[AndrewW]

A unique "download code" printed in each book would be a good way of allowing book owners to have the PDF for free.

Though then you have the problem of some just flipping through the book in a store and getting the code, you buy the book and find it already used.

Scratch panel?
Shrink-wrap?

There are many ways to overcome such things.

Not saying it couldn't be overcome just saying something to consider.

 

[Mr Evil]

i blame the price of tin !!!! hang on this isnt a thread about the cost of minatures !!! my god people are complaining about prices on somthing else now !!!!!!

i blame gamers they like to complain about prices... and maybe points values... some times both.

yes i know its not constructive but it has a point.. well i feel anyway.

 

[MongooseMatt]

I agree though, to buy the PDF should cost significantly less than to buy the book. I guess it is because Mongoose want to encourage the hobby and support the retailers by encouraging you to buy the book.

That is certainly a factor.

They are also priced at a level that makes PDFs worth us supporting - any less, and they would not be. This was the great 'revelation' of Drivethru over RPGNow, in that it encouraged people to think of PDFs as having greater value than before. With RPGNow, it was rare for a PDF to be over $5, which was just plain not worth the extra work for a larger publisher. However, with a better pricing structure, especially on larger products, the more sizeable companies could take part as well - in this, you at least get better choice of PDFs. Put another way, WotC would not be releasing their books on PDF if they could only get $5 for each one!

There is also the argument of the worth of content, and this is something I will prattle on about at great length. Content _is_ worth something and, for us, it is considered the lion's share of the deal.

Linked to this is the idea that, one day, _all_ books will be sold this way, and there will be very few paper-products. Publishers are not going to be willing to 'devalue' now what might be our main product in the future.

Put another way, if we reduced the price of our Traveller rulebook PDF to, say, $9.95, the day people switched to PDFs as their main format would be the day we go out of business. In other words, such pricing would be unsustainable for us.

As such, the pricing of PDFs is exactly where it needs to be, especially for publishers taking the long term view. Anything else would risk us losing a great deal.