Core vs. Books

[Azgulor]

Are the Traveller Books (0-?) basically subsections/breakouts of the core rulebook or all-new expansion material separate from the core?

 

[tneva82]

Are the Traveller Books (0-?) basically subsections/breakouts of the core rulebook or all-new expansion material separate from the core?

Expands the core rulebook adding new careers, equipment and rules to the game.

 

[Baron_Vulk_Morden]

They're mostly expansions to the core, although some careers and equipment (Mystical Order, Temporal Agency, Transdimensional Agency, Psionic Energy Sword) are obviously for non-Third Imperium campaigns.

 

[Sturn]

They're mostly expansions to the core, although some careers and equipment (Mystical Order, Temporal Agency, Transdimensional Agency, Psionic Energy Sword) are obviously for non-Third Imperium campaigns.

I like and own several MGT Traveller books, but this kinda scares me.

I have no problem at all if scifi sourcebooks come out based on MGT. I appluad it. What irks me is when a book with the Traveller design (black with the stripe across the front) comes out with obviously non-Traveller stuff inside. It will eventually make it difficult to decide which parts in these books are actually Traveller universe and which are generic scifi.

For those that have no plans to play in the actual Traveller universe this is of course not a problem. But for those of us that do play in the setting also, not just use the rules, it muddles and confuses things. Which parts are meant for the Traveller setting? Which parts aren't?

Please come out with generic scifi books or scifi books based on other settings (I eagerly await 2300AD). But, also please obviously seperate them.

 

[iainjcoleman]

They're mostly expansions to the core, although some careers and equipment (Mystical Order, Temporal Agency, Transdimensional Agency, Psionic Energy Sword) are obviously for non-Third Imperium campaigns.

I like and own several MGT Traveller books, but this kinda scares me.

I have no problem at all if scifi sourcebooks come out based on MGT. I appluad it. What irks me is when a book with the Traveller design (black with the stripe across the front) comes out with obviously non-Traveller stuff inside. It will eventually make it difficult to decide which parts in these books are actually Traveller universe and which are generic scifi.

For those that have no plans to play in the actual Traveller universe this is of course not a problem. But for those of us that do play in the setting also, not just use the rules, it muddles and confuses things. Which parts are meant for the Traveller setting? Which parts aren't?

Please come out with generic scifi books or scifi books based on other settings (I eagerly await 2300AD). But, also please obviously seperate them.

non-OTU =/= non-Traveller.

As far as I recall, all the non-OTU bits in these books are explicitly described as such, and the rules that don't fit with the OTU are flagged as optional. So I wouldn't worry particularly.

 

[BP]

Afraid there is no clear seperation either way - the core books also occasionally refer to OTU elements.

However, the Open Content (SRDs) strip all this out - so that helps in that direction.

Core books expanding past OTU - so far, most of these exceptions seem to be fairly isolated - in Core they are in their own boxed (non-Jump FTL, etc). Other items are typically listed at TLs above the (typical) OTU.

It is not perfect either way, but, to be fair, MGP has done a decent job of it. Special classification notations would have been nice - but, would have placed an extra burden of expectation that it was right - and proofing has been getting better, but still has room for improvement.

 

[tneva82]

They're mostly expansions to the core, although some careers and equipment (Mystical Order, Temporal Agency, Transdimensional Agency, Psionic Energy Sword) are obviously for non-Third Imperium campaigns.

I like and own several MGT Traveller books, but this kinda scares me.

I have no problem at all if scifi sourcebooks come out based on MGT. I appluad it. What irks me is when a book with the Traveller design (black with the stripe across the front) comes out with obviously non-Traveller stuff inside. It will eventually make it difficult to decide which parts in these books are actually Traveller universe and which are generic scifi.

But what is traveller? Original meaning for traveller was rules, not 3I setting...

 

[Treebore]

All of the Traveller books are non OTU until I declare them to be part of OTU.

What can I say? I am a GM who has allowed my power to go to my head.

 

[BP]

But what is traveller? Original meaning for traveller was rules, not 3I setting...

Original meaning. Like so many other terms in RL it has taken on alternate meanings for different folks.

One could argue technicality - but we are talking about a word - an artificial construct designed to convey meaning. What it means is decided by the interpreter.

MGT does try to seperate setting from rules - but there are blurred areas.

(Personnally, I define traveller as a SciFi roleplaying game - so I don't consider that it a setting - that is the 3I/OTU and with MGT Hammer's Slammers, Judge Dred, etc.).

 

[Sturn]

But what is traveller? Original meaning for traveller was rules, not 3I setting...

(my bolding of "Original")

This has been discussed over and over with many opinions and many of us will never be swayed one way or the other.

There are several game systems that have been called Traveller since the original. The only thing they have in common is....the setting. So, it apparently isn't the rules. Mongoose called it Traveller for a reason, not MUSRG (Mongoose Universal Scifi Roleplaying Game). Of course the system can be altered and used for many, many settings, but "Traveller" does refer to a setting as a large part of its name.

Seven different game systems, one setting, called Traveller. Some people play "Traveller" with the GURPS rules system. They don't say we are going to play Gurps tonight, they say we are going to play Traveller or maybe Gurps Traveller. It isn't just the rules.

 

[iainjcoleman]

Mongoose called it Traveller for a reason, not MUSRG (Mongoose Universal Scifi Roleplaying Game).

Indeed, MUSRG would have sold an order of magnitude fewer copies.

It seems very strange to insist that a game is essentially about a particular setting when that same game gives rules for randomly generating your own setting.

 

[rust]

For me all this is more a matter of "terminology economy" than ideology.

If "Traveller", "Original / Official Traveller Universe" and "Third Imperium
Setting" all have the same meaning, then at least two of these terms are
superfluous, while a term for the rules system is missing.

Therefore I use "Traveller" for the rules system, which seems reasonable
because Babylon 5, Judge Dredd and so on use the same system, and I
do not know of any other good name for their common system.

"Original / Official Traveller Universe (OTU)" does not make any sense for
me. The original Traveller system started without a setting, and as far as
I know there are neither a "Traveller Office" nor any "Traveller Officers",
which makes "official" sound somewhat silly.

This leaves "Third Imperium Setting" as the term for the ... Third Imperium
Setting. A very precise term, and difficult to confuse with anything else, I
think.

 

[tneva82]

There are several game systems that have been called Traveller since the original. The only thing they have in common is....the setting. So, it apparently isn't the rules.

Yet for Mongoose core books contain non-OTU stuff. So for them clearly Treaveller is more than just a setting.

 

[Treebore]

I think its rather obvious "Traveller" is the rules system, and the "Third Imperium" is clearly a setting.

At least for me, I use Traveller to run whatever flavor sci fi game I wish. When I want to run the Third Imperium I look at its setting history, not the rules.

Seems pretty distinct to me, but like has been already mentioned, not likely to get universal agreement.

 

[Matian]

GDI, are we doing this again?

The Mongoose model is this (and I find they've been quite clear on it): black cover = Traveller rules system, compatible with all other black cover books, include/exclude whatever fits your game setting.
Third Imperium books (hard to miss, what with the fancy art covers) = Third Imperium setting, compatible with MOST of the black cover books, but with necessary GM intervention to weed out things that don't fit YTU.
Strontium Dog = See above
Judge Dredd = See above

As for what you "need" to play, you need the core book. The career books are helpful and I enjoy them, but you don't need them, same with everything else. They also keep power creep down better than CT, but that's been covered in previous threads and I'm not doing it again.

You can disagree with the Mongoose business model, but they make it very clear what is Traveller rules set, and what is 3I (or JD or Dog) setting. I mean, seriously, the 3I books have "THE THIRD IMPERIUM" in 72pt font on the cover. It doesn't get much more obvious than that.

/GD kids get off my lawn

 

[Baron_Vulk_Morden]

GDI, are we doing this again?

The Mongoose model is this (and I find they've been quite clear on it): black cover = Traveller rules system, compatible with all other black cover books, include/exclude whatever fits your game setting.
Third Imperium books (hard to miss, what with the fancy art covers) = Third Imperium setting, compatible with MOST of the black cover books, but with necessary GM intervention to weed out things that don't fit YTU.
Strontium Dog = See above
Judge Dredd = See above

As for what you "need" to play, you need the core book. The career books are helpful and I enjoy them, but you don't need them, same with everything else. They also keep power creep down better than CT, but that's been covered in previous threads and I'm not doing it again.

You can disagree with the Mongoose business model, but they make it very clear what is Traveller rules set, and what is 3I (or JD or Dog) setting. I mean, seriously, the 3I books have "THE THIRD IMPERIUM" in 72pt font on the cover. It doesn't get much more obvious than that.

/GD kids get off my lawn

As a Traveller greybeard (but not grognard) I second this sentiment.

 

[danbuter]

They're mostly expansions to the core, although some careers and equipment (Mystical Order, Temporal Agency, Transdimensional Agency, Psionic Energy Sword) are obviously for non-Third Imperium campaigns.

I like and own several MGT Traveller books, but this kinda scares me.

I have no problem at all if scifi sourcebooks come out based on MGT. I appluad it. What irks me is when a book with the Traveller design (black with the stripe across the front) comes out with obviously non-Traveller stuff inside. It will eventually make it difficult to decide which parts in these books are actually Traveller universe and which are generic scifi.

You do realize original Traveller had no setting? I'm really glad Mongoose does not feel trapped by grognards who insist that something that did not really exist for a year or two after the rules were published be used as a straitjacket for the game.

 

[Baron_Vulk_Morden]

For a moment there, danbuter, I thought you were addressing me.

Sturm, take it from someone who's been playing since the original little black books came out, danbuter is entirely correct, the Third Imperium (aka the OTU) was not "the" Traveller setting for the original iteration of the game. IIRC, the OTU didn't appear for two years, then the first modules started being produced, appearing first in the JTAS (Journal for the Travellers Aid Society) before The Traveller Adventure was collected and published as a standalone supplement/game module.

It got cemented as the "Official" setting when Traveller was upgraded to MegaTraveller, but before then, it was just an optional setting. Mongoose's return to that is simply a return to the CT (Classic Traveller) roots that started it all.