Core Rulebook Update 2022 - New Printing, New Cover!

[Lime2K]

So there's a few pieces of errata that still have NOT been fixed in the new update (they are the same in the June '24 release and the September '24 release):

• Page 126-128 - Weapons/Slug Throwers section, there is no text description for the Assault Rifle. It looks like it got missed in the transition to the new layout, as there IS one for it in the 2016/Starter Set version.
• Page 201 - System Defense Boat - No bunk icons in middle three staterooms
• Page 188 - Add a note stating the costs for standard design ships are discounted 10%.

 

[apastuszak]

So there's a few pieces of errata that still have NOT been fixed in the new update (they are the same in the June '24 release and the September '24 release):

• Page 126-128 - Weapons/Slug Throwers section, there is no text description for the Assault Rifle. It looks like it got missed in the transition to the new layout, as there IS one for it in the 2016/Starter Set version.
• Page 201 - System Defense Boat - No bunk icons in middle three staterooms
• Page 188 - Add a note stating the costs for standard design ships are discounted 10%.

None of those are in the Eratta/FAQ document.

 

[apastuszak]

This new cover thing brings up an interesting possibility here. I think a lot of RPG companies go through a 'wash, rinse, repeat" cycle with having to release new editions of games to continue to generate revenue. I think the idea of reprinting rules with a new cover to help sell rulebooks is not a bad route to go.

Dungeon Crawl Classics has been doing this for a while. They've even run successful Kickstarters for the same rules with a new cover. And Castles and Crusades claim their rules are 100% compatible between printings. All that's changed is the layout of the rules and the cover. And Shadowrun Sixth World, has their City Editions, with each new printing getting a multi-page section at the end of the book detailing a city. The current printing has Berlin. The previous printing had Seattle.

I know there are some completionists on here that will scream "but my wallet!', but I think doing occasional cover refreshes while only adding errata and some new source material may be a good thing overall, helping break the endless cycle of new editions. And if you use Kickstarter, GoFundMe, BackerKit or some other crowdsourcing platform as a "group buy" or preorder system, you can judge demand and make sure changing the cover is worth the effort.

Am I crazy here?

 

[-Daniel-]

As long as it is very clear what is new content and what is a re-print with a new cover. I would also worry about the adding new content over time as well. I hear complaints already about rules being spread over so many books now as is, can you imagine if each reprint had new content each time.

 

[apastuszak]

As long as it is very clear what is new content and what is a re-print with a new cover. I would also worry about the adding new content over time as well. I hear complaints already about rules being spread over so many books now as is, can you imagine if each reprint had new content each time.

That's a valid concern. I would hope any unique content that's added to a new printing would not be rules, but some kind of setting material. Maybe add a ship with deck plans or something like that.

I'm just trying to avoid the "new edition" cycle that invalidates all your old books.

 

[Lime2K]

None of those are in the Eratta/FAQ document.

That is true, but they -are- errors that need to be addressed one way or another.

 

[Terry Mixon]

That is true, but they -are- errors that need to be addressed one way or another.

So start an errata thread here where they have a better chance of seeing it.

Feedback

Let us know your thoughts on any of our books and any issues!

forum.mongoosepublishing.com

 

[apastuszak]

That is true, but they -are- errors that need to be addressed one way or another.

I agree. Have you reported them before?

 

[MongooseMatt]

This new cover thing brings up an interesting possibility here. I think a lot of RPG companies go through a 'wash, rinse, repeat" cycle with having to release new editions of games to continue to generate revenue. I think the idea of reprinting rules with a new cover to help sell rulebooks is not a bad route to go.

Well, this is the idea.

The fundamental core rules for Traveller right now are pretty solid and there is nothing we desperately want to change on that fundamental level. Also, we are very, very leery of invalidating previous books - they are just too good to kill in the name of a new edition

So, the idea we are currently proceeding with is that, every so often, a core book (not necessarily the Core Rulebook) will get an update, improving the art and graphics, and introducing some 'course corrections' for the rules. However, in doing this, we make sure nothing gets invalidated, so the 'Update' books are never necessary purchases - if you have the original second edition 'Beowulf' cover Core Rulebook, you will still find you can use it with everything being released now.

Which is why with this latest Core Rulebook release, we actively tell people they do not need to buy it

Looking ahead, I can foresee a 'Ship of Theseus' problem, whereby Core Rulebook Update 2041 has seen a number of sequential changes that, individually, are minor but added together do kinda invalidate that original Beowulf book. At what point do we have a new edition by default?

At this time, I am leaving that one to the philosophers. The current thinking is that your existing rulebooks will not be invalidated by this process... but if it does ever happen, I think it will be over enough years that you might be okay with it? At least to the extent that you are happier picking up one new Core Rulebook than going through an entire new edition change.

As long as it is very clear what is new content and what is a re-print with a new cover. I would also worry about the adding new content over time as well. I hear complaints already about rules being spread over so many books now as is, can you imagine if each reprint had new content each time.

This is something we are taking on board, and I think next year you will see the Traveller Rules Compendium - basically a hardback gathering all of those disparate rules scattered throughout various titles.

With that, you will just need the Core Rulebook and Rules Compendium to cover all of the Traveller fundamental rules, and can then just add Companion, High Guard, Vehicle Handbook and Robot Handbook to taste.

Everything else is just there for you to really drill down into the detail of specific rules areas (such as the World Builder's Handbook, for example).

Does that sound like a good plan to everyone?

 

[Sigtrygg]

Will the rules compendium clearly state which rules are generic and which are setting specific (and for which setting)

When are we getting a book that guides referees in making their own setting, choosing from the vast array of options scattered throughout Traveller, T2300, High Guard, Vehicles, Robots, Companion, the new Compendium...

 

[Terry Mixon]

Well, this is the idea.

The fundamental core rules for Traveller right now are pretty solid and there is nothing we desperately want to change on that fundamental level. Also, we are very, very leery of invalidating previous books - they are just too good to kill in the name of a new edition

So, the idea we are currently proceeding with is that, every so often, a core book (not necessarily the Core Rulebook) will get an update, improving the art and graphics, and introducing some 'course corrections' for the rules. However, in doing this, we make sure nothing gets invalidated, so the 'Update' books are never necessary purchases - if you have the original second edition 'Beowulf' cover Core Rulebook, you will still find you can use it with everything being released now.

Which is why with this latest Core Rulebook release, we actively tell people they do not need to buy it

Looking ahead, I can foresee a 'Ship of Theseus' problem, whereby Core Rulebook Update 2041 has seen a number of sequential changes that, individually, are minor but added together do kinda invalidate that original Beowulf book. At what point do we have a new edition by default?

At this time, I am leaving that one to the philosophers. The current thinking is that your existing rulebooks will not be invalidated by this process... but if it does ever happen, I think it will be over enough years that you might be okay with it? At least to the extent that you are happier picking up one new Core Rulebook than going through an entire new edition change.



This is something we are taking on board, and I think next year you will see the Traveller Rules Compendium - basically a hardback gathering all of those disparate rules scattered throughout various titles.

With that, you will just need the Core Rulebook and Rules Compendium to cover all of the Traveller fundamental rules, and can then just add Companion, High Guard, Vehicle Handbook and Robot Handbook to taste.

Everything else is just there for you to really drill down into the detail of specific rules areas (such as the World Builder's Handbook, for example).

Does that sound like a good plan to everyone?

I like the plan but am curious how often the upcoming rules compendium would be updated. Would it be 2-3 years like we are seeing here, or would the new rules at least either be in the pdf sooner or at least be in a separate, more malleable and updatable pdf for the owners of the compendium could download to tide us over until the main pdf gets updated?

Personally, I think if new rules come out between compendium updates, I’d like to get them at the same time in that annex pdf.

 

[-Daniel-]

This is something we are taking on board, and I think next year you will see the Traveller Rules Compendium - basically a hardback gathering all of those disparate rules scattered throughout various titles.

With that, you will just need the Core Rulebook and Rules Compendium to cover all of the Traveller fundamental rules, and can then just add Companion, High Guard, Vehicle Handbook and Robot Handbook to taste.

Everything else is just there for you to really drill down into the detail of specific rules areas (such as the World Builder's Handbook, for example).

Does that sound like a good plan to everyone?

I vote yes. I love this idea.

 

[Limpin Legin]

the new artwork. It is artwork that looks like it wants to be noticed and take out all the other sci-fi rpgs.

 

[Limpin Legin]

Does that sound like a good plan to everyone?

I am happy without a compendium because it doesn't phase me, and I can routinely work with interleaved books open simultaneously. With everything condensed into one compendium, it would make it formidable to keep sections on vehicles, weapons, and combat open at the same time, when they are needed in the same timeframe.

I like the Traveller trend of a core "Player Character" book (aka Core Rulebook), and a selection of modular (aka "optional") rulebooks, settings books, + adventures book.

Maybe that makes me in the minority of current views. I can make my own lists of items and their book location. This is something I already do with skills and careers, as such summaries helps me show players what the game is about.

What I wouldn't have minded was more referees briefings (or JTAS articles) on, say:

• different universe formations (ie: creationist, other planes of existence, other dimensions of existence, multiverses, parallel universes, big bang evolution, universe-as-a-computer-simulation, universe-as-a-thought-experiment, and so on).
• Also interested in a referees briefing covering how to interpret and prepare Mongoose's "Sandbox" style campaigns
• and more info on where Traveller is going with regards how to handle in-game computerised information.
• Then, something on how to interpret the UWP Government Codes. Like, what are the expected non-judgemental strengths and weaknesses of each polity type, as some of us gamers aren't very politically-minded enough to bring these aspects alive in game sessions. And make the advice scalable from clans, factions, cities, worlds up to sector polities.
• And finally, a referees briefing on Dyson Spheres and Floating Cities could be quite captivating. Or just something on non-moving sci-fi architectures found at higher Tech Levels.

 

[apastuszak]

Well, this is the idea.

The fundamental core rules for Traveller right now are pretty solid and there is nothing we desperately want to change on that fundamental level. Also, we are very, very leery of invalidating previous books - they are just too good to kill in the name of a new edition

So, the idea we are currently proceeding with is that, every so often, a core book (not necessarily the Core Rulebook) will get an update, improving the art and graphics, and introducing some 'course corrections' for the rules. However, in doing this, we make sure nothing gets invalidated, so the 'Update' books are never necessary purchases - if you have the original second edition 'Beowulf' cover Core Rulebook, you will still find you can use it with everything being released now.

Which is why with this latest Core Rulebook release, we actively tell people they do not need to buy it

Looking ahead, I can foresee a 'Ship of Theseus' problem, whereby Core Rulebook Update 2041 has seen a number of sequential changes that, individually, are minor but added together do kinda invalidate that original Beowulf book. At what point do we have a new edition by default?

At this time, I am leaving that one to the philosophers. The current thinking is that your existing rulebooks will not be invalidated by this process... but if it does ever happen, I think it will be over enough years that you might be okay with it? At least to the extent that you are happier picking up one new Core Rulebook than going through an entire new edition change.



This is something we are taking on board, and I think next year you will see the Traveller Rules Compendium - basically a hardback gathering all of those disparate rules scattered throughout various titles.

With that, you will just need the Core Rulebook and Rules Compendium to cover all of the Traveller fundamental rules, and can then just add Companion, High Guard, Vehicle Handbook and Robot Handbook to taste.

Everything else is just there for you to really drill down into the detail of specific rules areas (such as the World Builder's Handbook, for example).

Does that sound like a good plan to everyone?

This sounds similar to SS4, The Lost Rules for Classic Traveller.

I would think this would make the most sense as a "living document" that might get updated as new books get released.

 

[IanBruntlett]

This sounds similar to SS4, The Lost Rules for Classic Traveller.

I would think this would make the most sense as a "living document" that might get updated as new books get released.

How many pages are we talking about here? The constant updates would suggest having a PDF. On the other hand, lots of people (me included) like books.

A Heath Robinson approach would be to publish the living document with blank pages at the back for people to paste in printed updates.

OTOH, I'd prefer a PDF.

 

[apastuszak]

How many pages are we talking about here? The constant updates would suggest having a PDF. On the other hand, lots of people (me included) like books.

A Heath Robinson approach would be to publish the living document with blank pages at the back for people to paste in printed updates.

OTOH, I'd prefer a PDF.

Or sell it as a bunch of pages in an "official" Traveller binder you can add to.

My holy grail of TTRPGs is still some physical product you can update on your own that isn't as bulky as an office binder.

The only way I can think of doing that is to make a custom binder that has 22 or 30 rings, is only as thick as it needs to be to hold the pages plus maybe 10% wiggle room, and, when closed the pages sit close to the edge. So, I'd want as close a clone to a hardback book as possible but with rings inside.

But I'm sure doing that would cost significantly more than just getting a hardback printed.

 

[IanBruntlett]

Or sell it as a bunch of pages in an "official" Traveller binder you can add to.

My holy grail of TTRPGs is still some physical product you can update on your own that isn't as bulky as an office binder.

The only way I can think of doing that is to make a custom binder that has 22 or 30 rings, is only as thick as it needs to be to hold the pages plus maybe 10% wiggle room, and, when closed the pages sit close to the edge. So, I'd want as close a clone to a hardback book as possible but with rings inside.

But I'm sure doing that would cost significantly more than just getting a hardback printed.

TSR went down the custom ring binder route with the Monstrous Compendium (MC). Some people hauled their MC to games and they rapidly fell apart. I simply took pages out of the MC and put them in my pair of DM's A4 ring binders.

 

[apastuszak]

TSR went down the custom ring binder route with the Monstrous Compendium (MC). Some people hauled their MC to games and they rapidly fell apart. I simply took pages out of the MC and put them in my pair of DM's A4 ring binders.

That's not the kind of custom binder I am thinking of. That was just a standard US 3-ring binder with custom artwork printed on the front.

I'd want something something completely custom that's not like any binder you have today:

1. 22 or 30 ring design
2. Locking rings
3. Made of extremely durable material, not just vinyl or paper
4. Custom dimension to make them not much bigger than a hardback book

It's not something you can achieve right now because you can't really make truly custom binders. You're limited by ring sizes.

One thing I did was print out the Core 2022 rulebook and had it spiral bound at an office supply store. When the Core 2022 errata came out, I just cut the coil, printed out the pages with errata, swapped out pages and took it back, and they put a new coil in for just a few dollars.

To get a "stiff" cover, I printed out the front and back covers and glued them onto comic book backer boards and then laminated them. This worked well. The book lied flat on the table when opened and you could fold it back. The only problems I had were:

1. Offset printed paper is significantly thinner than printer paper, so the book comes out thicker.
2. There is no labeled spine, so it's not as easy to know which book on your bookshelf is the book you need.
3. Laser Printers curl paper, so the book is never as flat as it could be.

I tried to find various ways to solve the labeled spine problem, and nothing was ever really satisfactory. If I was doing a commercial product this way, I'd probably sell it in a box. But then you need to deal with opening the box to get the book out.

And printing our your own books is only really cost-effective if you get PDFs in a Humble Bundle or Bundle of Holding deal. At full retail price for a PDF (US $30 for most Mongoose products), it's more cost effective to buy the hardback and get the free PDF.

 

[TrippyHippy]

That's not the kind of custom binder I am thinking of. That was just a standard US 3-ring binder with custom artwork printed on the front.

I'd want something something completely custom that's not like any binder you have today:

1. 22 or 30 ring design
2. Locking rings
3. Made of extremely durable material, not just vinyl or paper
4. Custom dimension to make them not much bigger than a hardback book

It's not something you can achieve right now because you can't really make truly custom binders. You're limited by ring sizes.

One thing I did was print out the Core 2022 rulebook and had it spiral bound at an office supply store. When the Core 2022 errata came out, I just cut the coil, printed out the pages with errata, swapped out pages and took it back, and they put a new coil in for just a few dollars.

To get a "stiff" cover, I printed out the front and back covers and glued them onto comic book backer boards and then laminated them. This worked well. The book lied flat on the table when opened and you could fold it back. The only problems I had were:

1. Offset printed paper is significantly thinner than printer paper, so the book comes out thicker.
2. There is no labeled spine, so it's not as easy to know which book on your bookshelf is the book you need.
3. Laser Printers curl paper, so the book is never as flat as it could be.

I tried to find various ways to solve the labeled spine problem, and nothing was ever really satisfactory. If I was doing a commercial product this way, I'd probably sell it in a box. But then you need to deal with opening the box to get the book out.

And printing our your own books is only really cost-effective if you get PDFs in a Humble Bundle or Bundle of Holding deal. At full retail price for a PDF (US $30 for most Mongoose products), it's more cost effective to buy the hardback and get the free PDF.

Do you remember the first printing of White Wolf’s Æon? It was later renamed ‘Trinity’ because some other company legally challenged them on the original name. Anyway, their original printing was in a high quality, tightly ringbound, sturdy plastic wraparound folder - sort of like a file dump manual. It is similar to what you might be mentioning. Here is a picture:

It didn’t last because not only could they not use the name but, sales were not especially as high as they wanted and, I suspect, the format may have cost a bit. It looked cool though.

And another picture: