Are we done with the "update" books?

[apastuszak]

We have:

Core Rulebook 2022 Update
High Guard 2022 Update
Central Supply Catalog 2023 Update
Traveller Companion 2024 Update
Referee Screen 2024 Update

Will any of the other rulebooks get these "year" updates?

 

[Condottiere]

Would depend on potential sales.

One candidate would be Vehicles.

 

[Sigtrygg]

And then someone can begin the task of reading them all, noting the contradictions, and begin the task of writing a third edition that uses consistent rules, technology paradigms, and hopefully streamlines the game.

Hopefully ready for a 50th birthday just around the corner (Traveller not me)

 

[MongooseMatt]

Vehicles will be next, but it will be a while - we have not even started that project yet.

There is also the idea that we could do the same for Pirates of Drinax... but that would be an exercise in insanity, I fear...

 

[mad_djg]

Vehicles will be next, but it will be a while - we have not even started that project yet.

There is also the idea that we could do the same for Pirates of Drinax... but that would be an exercise in insanity, I fear...

I have this theory that sanity should be measured on a circular scale not a linear one. This means that total sanity = total insanity, and thus the most sane you can be, is actually being half mad. Well that’s my excuse.

 

[CordwainerFish]

I have this theory that sanity should be measured on a circular scale not a linear one. This means that total sanity = total insanity, and thus the most sane you can be, is actually being half mad. Well that’s my excuse.

In the kingdom of the lunatics, it is the sane person who has the real problems.

 

[tytalan]

Vehicles will be next, but it will be a while - we have not even started that project yet.

There is also the idea that we could do the same for Pirates of Drinax... but that would be an exercise in insanity, I fear...

Vehicle desperately need a rewrite. The core concept was good but there are so many broken and counter dictations in it.

Fusion Power Plants are a great example they are treated like a upgrade to fission plants with a ludicrous duration (if you do the numbers well over 95% of the space it takes up is fuel) and only TL8 and TL 10. It cast extra space yet is supposed to ubiquitous starting TL 12. The fusion power plant doesn’t even make sense when compared to other portable fusion power plants. Shoot it makes more sense to install a starship power plant and that’s completely overkill
TL 8 Starship fusion plant 1ton (10pp) 1ton fuel (10 month duration)
TL 12 starship fusion plant 1ton (15pp ) 1 ton fuel (10 month duration)
TL 15 Starship fusion plant 1 ton (20pp) 1 ton fuel (10 month duration)
Any one of those only take 8 spaces and greatly over power the power needs for any vehicle. Even if you felt you needed enough power for a beam ship laser at TL 8 .5 tons for 5pp and .05 tons for fuel for 1 month a reasonable duration that would be just over 2 spaces and even that makes no sense because you would be removing the existing power system so you just freed up space. No I could see a minimum size of vehicle possible 5 ton worth to qualify for fusion power. But it shouldn’t take up any space tho it should have a credit cost. Also I would say if you wanted to put a ship weapon that requires power on a vehicle it should take say 2 extra spaces for power systems.

Armor also needs an overhaul plus most of the options need at least a little tweaking and expanding. Shoot even other books like the field catalogue don’t follow the vehicle construction rules in the handbook.

The vehicle options need expanding too

I would suggest putting Geir on the project and making it more consistent with the other book especially Robots and Highguard. Drones really require this level of compatibility. I would also put rewrites of most of the major vehicles like the imperial Tank & APCs there if the fusion and armor rule are fixed the Astrin and Trepida would be brought back down to 10 ton which not only makes sense but fit cannon better. Dont be afraid of increasing the book size to the same as Robots it really needs it

 

[Sigtrygg]

This is how the mess that was the MT design sequence took shape. Try to shoehorn disparate design sequences.

FF&S has the great advantage that it scales from butter knives to meson spinals, and had all the alternate universe tech written to the same standards.

I have the pdfs, what I lack is the software to edit FF&S TNE and T4 into a whole and then describe MgT tech.

I can do it in word...

 

[Geir]

A completely consistent rewrite is a MgT v3 sort of deal. It affects every piece of equipment and has to fix band-aids like vehicle damage. I was pretty much told not to try to make CSC weapons work with the Mercenary rules and my attempt to rationalise Armour based on a background mechanic just didn't work (without changing prices and masses for just about everything).

By the time FF&S came out for TNE and T4, I was too busy with life to spend any time trying to design Traveller equipment, so though I have the documents (dead tree and electronic), I don't feel qualified to comment on it right now. The design rules in T5 made me cross-eyed, but that might just be a formatting issue.

The thing that's a challenge is to make it simple enough for a casual user and interesting and consistent enough for those few of us who are out there on the spectrum (As I raises a hand and wave without making eye contact)

 

[Spirit of 1977]

This is how the mess that was the MT design sequence took shape. Try to shoehorn disparate design sequences.

FF&S has the great advantage that it scales from butter knives to meson spinals, and had all the alternate universe tech written to the same standards.

I have the pdfs, what I lack is the software to edit FF&S TNE and T4 into a whole and then describe MgT tech.

I can do it in word...

Risking beating the dead horse that is MegaT, I have a very cleaned up and edited version of the MegaT vehicle/spaceship/robot design system that sings. Having a consistent fictional theory of energy/power in real SI units creates a level of consistency across all devices that is very satisfying. Yes, High Guard and Striker were not compatible, but I think the changes made in MegaT were fine.

 

[tytalan]

A completely consistent rewrite is a MgT v3 sort of deal. It affects every piece of equipment and has to fix band-aids like vehicle damage. I was pretty much told not to try to make CSC weapons work with the Mercenary rules and my attempt to rationalise Armour based on a background mechanic just didn't work (without changing prices and masses for just about everything).

By the time FF&S came out for TNE and T4, I was too busy with life to spend any time trying to design Traveller equipment, so though I have the documents (dead tree and electronic), I don't feel qualified to comment on it right now. The design rules in T5 made me cross-eyed, but that might just be a formatting issue.

The thing that's a challenge is to make it simple enough for a casual user and interesting and consistent enough for those few of us who are out there on the spectrum (As I raises a hand and wave without making eye contact)

I’m not sure you need to do a massive rewrite of the whole design system. Just fixing the vehicle handbook so it’s at least vaguely consistent with Highguard and Robots would be a major fix. Robots in general works well with Highguard it’s the fact that Vehicle is so far outside of the both of them and itself that’s the problem. I know fixing vehicles is a major undertaking but keeping it as it is now makes The vehicle Handbook beyond useless and in fact worthless since not even mongoose is using it in general to design vehicles in its supplements.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Vehicles will be next, but it will be a while - we have not even started that project yet.

There is also the idea that we could do the same for Pirates of Drinax... but that would be an exercise in insanity, I fear...

How could I assist in this exercise in insanity?

 

[ottarrus]

We have:

Core Rulebook 2022 Update
High Guard 2022 Update
Central Supply Catalog 2023 Update
Traveller Companion 2024 Update
Referee Screen 2024 Update

Will any of the other rulebooks get these "year" updates?

There are some pretty significant rule changes in the Core Rulebook, it's essentially Mongoose Traveller 2nd edition.
These rule changes were significant enough to warrant updating all the primary rule books. And the production values went from black and white line drawing of mediocre quality at best to full color artwork and a lot of improvements in the way that information is presented.
While YMMV, I personally think I got my money's worth in the update books and I'm seriously considering taking my older MgT1e stuff to the used book store.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Umm, the update books update the second edition of the rules.
1e
2e
2e update

 

[apastuszak]

There are some pretty significant rule changes in the Core Rulebook, it's essentially Mongoose Traveller 2nd edition.
These rule changes were significant enough to warrant updating all the primary rule books. And the production values went from black and white line drawing of mediocre quality at best to full color artwork and a lot of improvements in the way that information is presented.
While YMMV, I personally think I got my money's worth in the update books and I'm seriously considering taking my older MgT1e stuff to the used book store.

Don't do that. If you're in the US, PM me and I'll find them a home on my bookshelf.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Incidentally, to answer the thread's title more fully... after the VHB, sort of.

The Plan, such as it is, is to revisit these core books to refresh the art and make any little tweaks we think are beneficial - the idea being, we can keep Traveller evolving without actually doing a brand new edition and invalidating all the books you currently have.

So, there may come (say) Traveller Core Rulebook Update 2027, but your current Core Rulebook Update 2022 will still be valid and useable (and its predecessor, for that matter), and still be compatible with all new supplements and sourcebooks that get released in the future.

Even if there are more substantial changes, we will endeavour to keep those past rulebooks current and useable. For example, we have been tinkering with the Initiative system, but even if that were implemented, it won't invalidate the previous rulebooks (because all it is deciding is who goes first in a firefight, and you can choose precisely which mechanic you prefer - and if we are really clever, you will be able to use both, simultaneously at the same table, but I digress).

Now, being games designers, there is always the temptation to make more fundamental changes. For example, we are also considering Project Combat Evolved (that name will have to change, obviously) which makes some deeper changes in the way damage is handled. If we were to go forward with that in a new Core Rulebook, we would also provide a free PDF that updates the previous ones to remain compatible.

I suppose this is a way to turn Traveller into the Ship of Theseus...

That, at least, is The Plan. Basically, we want to keep Traveller fresh and relevant but not overturn the cart and invalidate huge swathes of your gaming library by doing a completely new edition.

Thoughts on this welcomed!

 

[Sigtrygg]

The very first thought
damage scaling character-vehicle-starship
there are much better ways to do this (MT, TNE, T4), the D, DD, DDD system reminds me of bra sizes rather than damage scaling...

Second thought, make authors use the rules as they are rather than making up new stuff that contradicts the core rules, contradicts other rules written by the same author, and often have unforeseen consequence.

Finally, decide if MgT is Traveller or The Third Imperium rpg because of late your authors have been introducing CRB tech that has no place in the OTU

Consider a new setting just in case.

 

[apastuszak]

As someone who just bought a bunch of hardbacks to supplement my PDFs, I obviously don't like books I paid good money for not be current. That's always the challenge with printed material. It's hard to keep it current as it's a static product.

But I admit, I am "THAT GUY" that wants to keep his books current.

I've always wondered about ways to keep printed books current. With errata updates I have had success with printing relevant pages in updated PDFs, cutting out sections of pages, and gluing in the updates. That's why I wish newer PDFs came with release notes on what was changed.

I have printed out books and use them in binders, but I really don't like that solution because binders are big and unwieldy. In my perfect world, a rulebook would be in a custom designed binder that's the same size as the hardback and uses a 22 ring binder mechanism with very small hole punches. Then you could swap pages in and out as needed. This would make an "updatable" rulebook. But I'm sure that would cost more than printing hardbacks.

I think the idea of a Core Rulebook 2027 update is a good one, as it keeps the rules current without invalidating everyone's old copies. But if the changes are more subtle, then it would be nice if the "2027 update" just had page changes instead of a completely new layout.

 

[Spirit of 1977]

Finally, decide if MgT is Traveller or The Third Imperium rpg because of late your authors have been introducing CRB tech that has no place in the OTU

What does this sentence mean? I assume CRB means Core Rulebook, but how does that differ from the OTU?

 

[Vormaerin]

There are non standard tech in the rules books. The most obvious example I can think of is the personal energy shield. It's in the central supply catalogue, which is fine because that's a general rulebook. Just like high guard has techs that are not in the Charted Space setting.

But those personal energy shields are ALSO in Third Imperium, which is a Charted Space specific book. And they literally get mentioned no where else in any book. No NPCs have them. They don't stop the Emperor from getting assassinated, even though they are extremely powerful. They aren't scaled up to vehicles or starships. It's just a mess.

There's lots of great Sci fi that use personal energy shields, so having rules for it in Traveller is fine if you distinguish between Traveller and Charted Space (which I prefer that people do). But it isn't a thing in Charted Space. Or, if it is intended to be a thing in charted space now, they need to actually do something with it. Because it is a pretty paradigm shifting technology given how effective it is.