Confused about how Gunner skills interact with weapon mounts

[MarcusIII]

Irrelevant.

Wrong, 100% relevant. By not answering the question you unequivocally cede the point in question which put quit to the assertion of no gunnery training needed. Period

 

[MasterGwydion]

Fire Control takes away the penalty to the pilot which almost all fighters have.


Irrelevant. The pilot needs to move the plane to make the cannon hit, the cannon is not moved independently from the airframe. We can argue over 21st Century semantics applied to XX century technology another time.

RAW does say the pilot has a -2 modifier when using fixed mounts or turrets pointing forward. That makes sense on anything that isn't a "fighter" which is how I would house rule that. As I mentioned above, Fire Control is going to negate that most if not all of the time in the "fighter" situation.

My issue is this. Knowing how to aim a weapon by aiming the craft is a way different skillset than operating a turret.

 

[Arkathan]

Or you could argue that the controls could be configured to operate in exactly the same way that the craft is controlled, especially with holographic controls, or Star Trek-like touch panels.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Or you could argue that the controls could be configured to operate in exactly the same way that the craft is controlled, especially with holographic controls, or Star Trek-like touch panels.

They totally could. You are right, but that wouldn't change the fact that it is two different skillsets, aiming by flying the craft and aiming by pointing a turret. One seems to be more about your ability to pilot the craft and the other seems more about the ability to use a turret.

 

[Arkathan]

They totally could. You are right, but that wouldn't change the fact that it is two different skillsets, aiming by flying the craft and aiming by pointing a turret. One seems to be more about your ability to pilot the craft and the other seems more about the ability to use a turret.

Yes. Two skill sets. Pilot and Gunner (Turret)
DM-2 for multiple actions.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Yes. Two skill sets. Pilot and Gunner (Turret)
DM-2 for multiple actions.

Is it a Task Chain? First the Pilot roll and then a modified Gunner roll at a -2 penalty for multiple actions?

It still seems weird. The pilot can only fire the turrets in a forward-facing position, like the fixed mounts, or can they be fired in any direction as is normal for turrets? It seems like if the turrets are not locked facing forward, then it wouldn't be a Task Chain, since the Pilot roll would be irrelevant to the Gunner roll.

 

[Arkathan]

Two actions same turn.in second example, relevant if pilot uses action to stabilize for gunner

 

[Condottiere]

You have a six minute window, at default.

Essentially, about the same for the spinal mount.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Two actions same turn.in second example, relevant if pilot uses action to stabilize for gunner

This would mean that the pilot would always be making a Task Chain Pilot roll to add to the Gunner checks of his crewmates. Is that stated somewhere and I missed it?

 

[swordtart]

Fire Control takes away the penalty to the pilot which almost all fighters have.

Irrelevant. The pilot needs to move the plane to make the cannon hit, the cannon is not moved independently from the airframe. We can argue over 21st Century semantics applied to XX century technology another time.

RAW does say the pilot has a -2 modifier when using fixed mounts or turrets pointing forward. That makes sense on anything that isn't a "fighter" which is how I would house rule that. As I mentioned above, Fire Control is going to negate that most if not all of the time in the "fighter" situation.

Fire control/1 can either assist a gunner (or the Pilot in this case) by giving them +1 on their Gunner skill check or it can control the weapons itself as a Gunner-0. In the case of a single seat ship this is almost certainly going to be the better use as it allows the pilot to concentrate on just flying the ship.

 

[swordtart]

This would mean that the pilot would always be making a Task Chain Pilot roll to add to the Gunner checks of his crewmates. Is that stated somewhere and I missed it?

CRB p166 "Aid Gunners"

 

[MasterGwydion]

CRB p166 "Aid Gunners"

Thank you!

 

[swordtart]

Yes. Two skill sets. Pilot and Gunner (Turret)
DM-2 for multiple actions.

DM-2 for is for using a turret as a Pilot not for multiple actions.

Multiple action would increase the difficulty of the Pilot Action and the Gunner action. Lining up the shot is considered part of the combat (no pilot check required), but if a Pilot were to using a point of thrust to improve his own Gunner Skill check then he is required to make the Pilot check and this would be at one level more difficult and the Gunner check one level more difficult in addition to suffering the -2 for operating a turret from the Pilot seat.

I don't think that firing a weapon in a fixed mount incurs the -2 however. CRB p166 gives.

"...a pilot may fire any weapons in a single turret at DM-2 to the attack roll or weapons noted as being in fixed mounts"

The -2 seems to only apply to the first clause of the sentence. If the -2 were to apply to fixed mounts as well the sentence would read

"...a pilot may fire any weapons in a single turret or weapons noted as being in fixed mounts at DM-2 to the attack roll"

That makes Pilots firing fixed weapon mounts a bit less rubbish and I think covers the "aiming with the ship" argument. They still need to use Gunner, but at least they are at no additional penalty. Anyone who underwent Navy Basic Training will have Gunner-0 by default.

 

[MasterGwydion]

DM-2 for is for using a turret as a Pilot not for multiple actions.

Multiple action would increase the difficulty of the Pilot Action and the Gunner action. Lining up the shot is considered part of the combat (no pilot check required), but if a Pilot were to using a point of thrust to improve his own Gunner Skill check then he is required to make the Pilot check and this would be at one level more difficult and the Gunner check one level more difficult in addition to suffering the -2 for operating a turret from the Pilot seat.

I don't think that firing a weapon in a fixed mount incurs the -2 however. CRB p166 gives.

"...a pilot may fire any weapons in a single turret at DM-2 to the attack roll or weapons noted as being in fixed mounts"

The -2 seems to only apply to the first clause of the sentence. If the -2 were to apply to fixed mounts as well the sentence would read

"...a pilot may fire any weapons in a single turret or weapons noted as being in fixed mounts at DM-2 to the attack roll"

That makes Pilots firing fixed weapon mounts a bit less rubbish and I think covers the "aiming with the ship" argument. They still need to use Gunner, but at least they are at no additional penalty. Anyone who underwent Navy Basic Training will have Gunner-0 by default.

Now I am back to being confused again.

 

[Arkathan]

I don't think that firing a weapon in a fixed mount incurs the -2 however. CRB p166 gives.

"...a pilot may fire any weapons in a single turret at DM-2 to the attack roll or weapons noted as being in fixed mounts"

... because flying and shooting are separate actions.

 

[Condottiere]

Fixed Weapons Mounts: Solomani ships may have fixed weapons mounts (as opposed to turret mounted weapons). Fixed weapons mounts allow up to two weapons to be attached per each hardpoint on the ship and do not require fire control tonnage or a turret. Weapons in fixed weapons mounts are operated by a gunner on the bridge and are subject to an attacker's DM -2 in space combat. A ship is allowed fixed weapons mounts equal to the model number of the computer installed on the ship (Model/2 computer allows two hardpoints to have fixed weapons mounts).

Alien Module Six - Solomani page forty two