Conan Plans Unveiled - Deepest Apologies

[Darrin Kelley]

...'has been'...being the operative words to describe Conan's relationship with OGL as far as I am reading d'em bones. Paradoc gut said they are ope to a new system but wnat that choice/decision to occur with a renewal of the license to ensure some longevity with the new game. A new Conan rpg game will come, it won't be OGL.

Thats just the way of it mate. It WILL be Savage worlds, RQ, an adaptation of Song of Fire and Ice engine by Green Ronin, adaptation of Warhammer 3rd ed by FFG (as long as that does well) or something else. Thats what d'em bones are saying...

You might well get a 'swan song' of OGL releases from Mongoose over the next year tho so buck up.

Mongoose hasn't announced a discontinuation of the Conan OGL line yet. And they got the rug pulled out from under them for Runequest and Savage Worlds.

I'm going to keep enjoying Conan OGL as long as it is produced, and for as long as I own the books already do.

 

[Ravelli]

CPI I think made it plain as day. That they thought the switch to Runequest was a massive disservice to the fans who already plunked down a couple of thousand US dollars for the OGL Conan books. That they would be essentially left flailing in the dust.

System debates aside, this assertion is not entirely correct. CPI only stated that a switch of system in the next twelve months was unfair to customers. After that, it's open season and Conan may well switch to Runquest, D&D4E, Bunnies and Burrows, hell, anything as long as CPI likes the pitch.

A system change is not ruled out. We are neither bound to d20, nor opposing any other system for a future Conan RPG. From a business and player perspective, we feel a system change this close to the expiration of the license would be unfair to customers as there is a risk the new system would be abandoned a year from now, if a new licensee is selected. Until their license expires, Mongoose may continue to develop d20 supplements.

It's also worth considering that, even if Mongoose secure the license again, it's unlikely that they'd continue using the d20 system for Conan. If you read between the lines of Matt's initial post he seems to be intimating that the abortive plans didn't entail any new d20 books.

This would have pleased a great many RQ players, but we knew there would be many who would want to stick to the 2nd, or even 1st, edition. So, we had commissioned Vincent Darlage to write a 13 volume atlas to Conan's world - systemless or near systemless, so _all_ Conan players could use them.

So, d20'ers would have been stuck with the old editions and if they wanted new material they'd have to settle for the systemless atlases.

Runequest (and Traveller for that matter) has always been a niche game. It hasn't sold anywhere near as widely as OGL games have. And being a niche game means that support of it would bring quite a bit less of a profit margin to Mongoose and CPI. And yes, that's a serious concern for a company like CPI. A simple matter if, on the business level, it would be worth CPI's time and resources to allow to exist.

The 'goose are the only ones who know how profitable their different lines are. They have demonstrated in the past that they're ruthless enough to cut them adrift when they're no longer viable (cf. Babylon 5), so they wouldn't be attempting to change Conan horses if it didn't offer them a better bottom line. As an aside, from what Mongoose have told us, Traveller is turning a very tidy profit. It seems to be their number one, grain-fed cash cow.

 

[Scorpion13]

Ill believe that theyre moving away from d20 when I see Matt come on the boards and announce it. No reading between the lines, no assumptions, no nothing. We THOUGHT we were getting atlases and other stuff like that, and we aint.

So until we hear it from the horses mouth, Im not assuming anything.

 

[Darrin Kelley]

That's not stopping me from buying Cimmeria and whateverr other major Conan book I don't have at the beginning of next month.

I'm quite happy with my OGL Conan books. I'll be keeping my eye out for anything new that may arise for it. I'm still committed to it as a Mongoose customer. As long as Conan OGL is still around, I'm a loyal customer.

 

[Turanil]

I didn't know about the Savage Worlds option. That is awesome (well, it was awesome. Gone now).

I was in the middle of the third volume of the Atlas when this news came. Brand new research, brand new text... I've been working my tail off. I hope the license holders reverse their decision. D20, Runequest, Savage Worlds and a systemless Atlas that could be used with any or all of it (or just as a reference set for those who just love atlases of fantasy worlds)...

I feel very shattered right now. I probably put too much of my heart into the Hyborian age, but I feel it deserves it. Please show your support!

Well, thirteen (!!) books in real leather detailing Conan's world, all of this systemless?! Man, that would have been AWESOME, I would have bought them immediately. Plus a Savage World version?! I would have bought that too (at least if this is a complete Savage World game tweaked for Conan, not an expansion requiring to look at previous SW rulebooks to play).

Actually, if I didn't know much about rpgs, I'd be tempted to go with the newest version of the market leader's established rpg, if I could get a deal with them (which means 4th ed D&D Conan...) or I'd want to go with a purpose built film tie-in game.

My suspicion is that once the Mongoose license is up CPI will pull the license and give it to someone who will produce a pen & paper version of that wretched Age of Conan MMO with its Cimmerian bear shamans, mammoth riders and tiger riding Khitans.

This on the other hand, would NEVER see my money!

Mongoose should produce the Atlases using only the public domain material from Howard. They can then strip the explicit Conan references from the RQ & Savage Worlds books and release them with that favorite tagline from innumerable 70s Sword & Sorcery paperbacks...."In the tradition of Conan!"

Good idea! Please, bring back the 13 leather bound books and the SW version!

 

[malric]

The problem i see with new system books, is that most (not saying all) people woulnt buy the geographical supplements if they already own D20. So my humble opinion is that unless the conan movies draws legions of people to pen and paper RPG, the new line will have less sales overall, and the suplements will have way lower sale rates than current d20. If the start of the line wont be succesful, no sane publishers would waste too much resources in such lines. But as i said, thats just my personal opinion. Im just afraid, with the (very) possible end of d20 conan, we may as well see the end of it, after couple of corebooks in different systems.

I know there are many people, who would say "i would buy them all", but you have to understand, not everyone who is buying the books is on the forums. Hell i owned the atlantean version for years, and didnt register until last week, when i noticed that my favourite line is propably going to shut down.

 

[rabindranath72]

The problem i see with new system books, is that most (not saying all) people woulnt buy the geographical supplements if they already own D20. So my humble opinion is that unless the conan movies draws legions of people to pen and paper RPG, the new line will have less sales overall, and the suplements will have way lower sale rates than current d20. If the start of the line wont be succesful, no sane publishers would waste too much resources in such lines. But as i said, thats just my personal opinion. Im just afraid, with the (very) possible end of d20 conan, we may as well see the end of it, after couple of corebooks in different systems.

I know there are many people, who would say "i would buy them all", but you have to understand, not everyone who is buying the books is on the forums. Hell i owned the atlantean version for years, and didnt register until last week, when i noticed that my favourite line is propably going to shut down.

Well, there is also people who did not buy the books because they are d20-based (I know some of them), and we do not know how many of these visit the boards, and we do not even know how many of them there are. It's reasonable to assume (just seeing how many lines Mongoose sells) that the internet population of gaming fans is a very, very small subset of the whole gaming population.
I had hoped for a multi-system implementation of Conan, or that at least some more non-crunch supplements were produced (campaigns for example). Oh well.

 

[Hervé]

It's reasonable to assume (just seeing how many lines Mongoose sells) that the internet population of gaming fans is a very, very small subset of the whole gaming population.

Indded, that's what we are. One would be wrong to think every gamer browses internet forums. Actually only a very small part do it.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

It's reasonable to assume (just seeing how many lines Mongoose sells) that the internet population of gaming fans is a very, very small subset of the whole gaming population.

Indded, that's what we are. One would be wrong to think every gamer browses internet forums. Actually only a very small part do it.

That certainly used to be the case, but I think the numbers are increasing on average.

 

[Hervé]

PrinceYyrkoon wrote:

That certainly used to be the case, but I think the numbers are increasing on average.

Probably, but let's hope that Mongoose have more customers than the dozen of geeks lurking on these boards! :wink:

 

[Bygoneyrs]

Well what I want to know for sure, Is Mongoose going to continue to produce anything more for d20 Conan ver2 or not. They should step forward and tell us that or not. If they don't ok, if they plan to ok.

 

[Ravelli]

Well what I want to know for sure, Is Mongoose going to continue to produce anything more for d20 Conan ver2 or not. They should step forward and tell us that or not. If they don't ok, if they plan to ok.

Matt posted this in another thread:

Okay enough time has passed and it's time for a response dude.

Well, dude, you have to understand that just a few days have passed since we found out about this ourselves. You also have to understand that we don't just pull out plans for entire lines out of our backsides on a whim.

To change the course of a line is a very long and very exacting process, involving the writers and editors, discussing what works and what doesn't, and building an exciting set of books that does the property credit.

Then we have to work out what is likely to sell, and what fans are really after. All that then has to be integrated into both a release and production schedule, without disrupting everything else we are doing.

This takes time. Today, I have to make sure certain Paranoia products go to print, account for an editor's schedule as they prepare to take a week off work, help out with a flood of mail orders we have had, find some time to continue development of a new game we have coming out early next year, and make sure a certain distributor upholds their end of a bargain that was made some time ago. That is on top of explaining our actions on the forums.

You want some pressure? Whatever we do with Conan will _not_ be rushed. It will be weighed and considered, and I would hope to have some answers around the end of November - right about the time of the State of the Mongoose, dude.

 

[zozotroll]

Sooner or later we will find out something. But in the mean time, we seem to like to post so Matt does not thing we have all gone away.

 

[centerfire]

I'm kind of in the same place as Darrin. Love Conan; loathe the BRP engine with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns. It's the sole reason I long ago stopped buying Call of Cthulhu, as well as games based on the Moorcock family of licenses, despite my affinty for those worlds; it's also why, despite my love of all things Fritz Leiber, Mongoose will never see a nickel from me for any of its Lankhmar books. It's absolutely incomprehensible to me that Greg Stafford is celebrated as an industry visionary for BRP -- which, boiled down, is little more than 1e D&D with a D% skill system half-assedly bolted on; it was revolutionary for about five minutes in 1981, and has sucked noisily ever since -- while his far more pathbreaking innovations in Pendragon fly largely beneath the radar.

Unlike Herve I don't feel that I have some moral duty to support licenses even though they're using systems I hate. In fact I think the opposite is true: I have an obligation not to support licenses that use systems I hate, to avoid artificially inflating sales numbers for those games and thus helping sustain the great-license-craptacular-engine marriage. Mongoose has done not-perfect-but-still-pretty-great work with OGL Conan. I'd be happy to see that continue. If Conan goes to Savage Worlds, well, I'll be disappointed at losing support for the OGL line, but I'll give the game a try if it doesn't suck (all due respect to Shane, but Pinnacle's ouvre is kind of hit and miss). Hell, convert it to AEG roll-and-keep or WOD D10, for all I care. And system-neutral sourcebooks? Bring 'em on.

But BRP and all its spawn should be packed into a rocket and shot into the sun. Do it for the children.

</rant>

 

[crazy_cat]

.....But BRP and all its spawn should be packed into a rocket and shot into the sun. Do it for the children.

</rant>

truth.

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

I'm kind of in the same place as Darrin. Love Conan; loathe the BRP engine with the white-hot intensity of a thousand suns. It's the sole reason I long ago stopped buying Call of Cthulhu, as well as games based on the Moorcock family of licenses, despite my affinty for those worlds; it's also why, despite my love of all things Fritz Leiber, Mongoose will never see a nickel from me for any of its Lankhmar books. It's absolutely incomprehensible to me that Greg Stafford is celebrated as an industry visionary for BRP -- which, boiled down, is little more than 1e D&D with a D% skill system half-assedly bolted on; it was revolutionary for about five minutes in 1981, and has sucked noisily ever since -- while his far more pathbreaking innovations in Pendragon fly largely beneath the radar.

Unlike Herve I don't feel that I have some moral duty to support licenses even though they're using systems I hate. In fact I think the opposite is true: I have an obligation not to support licenses that use systems I hate, to avoid artificially inflating sales numbers for those games and thus helping sustain the great-license-craptacular-engine marriage. Mongoose has done not-perfect-but-still-pretty-great work with OGL Conan. I'd be happy to see that continue. If Conan goes to Savage Worlds, well, I'll be disappointed at losing support for the OGL line, but I'll give the game a try if it doesn't suck (all due respect to Shane, but Pinnacle's ouvre is kind of hit and miss). Hell, convert it to AEG roll-and-keep or WOD D10, for all I care. And system-neutral sourcebooks? Bring 'em on.

But BRP and all its spawn should be packed into a rocket and shot into the sun. Do it for the children.

</rant>

Does this count as opinion?!

Come on, lets keep it civil. Sounds like you have some sort of unreasonable gripe. :roll:

 

[Hervé]

BRP is far from being a perfect system, but it has the merit to simple, logical, fluid and modular.

All those things D20 desperately lacks.

 

[Scorpion13]

Does this count as opinion?!

Come on, lets keep it civil. Sounds like you have some sort of unreasonable gripe. :roll:

Yeah, we should all get back to ragging on d20. Lets not get off topic here, guys....

 

[PrinceYyrkoon]

Does this count as opinion?!

Come on, lets keep it civil. Sounds like you have some sort of unreasonable gripe. :roll:

Yeah, we should all get back to ragging on d20. Lets not get off topic here, guys....

Maybe keep the matches in the box? :wink:

 

[Nagisawa]

However, I will say this. Although I had great fun with D20, even with the multi-classing rules, I found the class system too limited for 'real' sword and sorcery. S&S Heroes (And I'm not talking just Conan) tend to be skilled and capable generalists that work alone or in groups of no more than three people. While D20 is for making hyper-successful specialist that need support from three others in to a well oiled machine. D20 is GREAT for team play, but sadly isn't good for mimicking Sword and Sorcery.

IN MY OPINION.