[CONAN] Interesting Weapon & Combat Model

[Supplement Four]

I bought a copy of Hot Pursuit and Hot Pursuit on Foot, two very good d20 supplements that cover chases.

I was thinking that galloglaich's dice pool idea would be a neat element for chase rules. You manage your resources for the run, putting them all into speed, or saving some for maneuvers and obstacles.

 

[galloglaich]

Is that any similarity to the 'chase' rules we just added recently to the Mounted Combat section?

G.

 

[Supplement Four]

Is that any similarity to the 'chase' rules we just added recently to the Mounted Combat section?

I don't see any chase rules in the mounted combat section--only examples of warhorses.

Have you ever seen the chase rules in Spy Craft? The Hot Pursuit rules are generic but very similar.

 

[galloglaich]

Make sure you have the updated version, I think it's 25.008

G.

 

[Supplement Four]

Make sure you have the updated version, I think it's 25.008

G.

Naw, crap. Drive Thru RPG gave me v. 25.004.

How do I get updated versions? I bought the bundle. Weapons of the Ancient World v. 1.74FF, and Part II v. 1.62.

Are the other two books updated, too?

 

[LucaCherstich]

Yesterday, in my game, I tried the triple stats (double Dex dodge variant) with the 2.5 ft grid.

It's been fantastic!

Basically, it is still the same old Conan rpg, but weapon choice is much more fine!.

Games start to be more fluid, with AoO, 2.5 and 5ft steps becoming more and more important.

A manoeuvres like "pressing attack" become very good to put back an enemy which get too close, maybe to melee range, and you want to punt him back farther.

The feat "Drive you enemy before you" has a similar importance.

Combat Reflexes become a very important Feat.

I'm thinking about a review of Pressing Attack (from "Aquilonia").
It allows a free "5ft step" to follow somebody who is going "outside a square that you threaten".
But if we use the 2.5 ft scale & the triple stats, and since I converted a 5ft step in two possible 2.5 ft half-steps, I like to interpret the feat as also "somebody going out of the range you like the most", so you can make a half-step (2.5 ft).

For example I'm attacking with my scimitar (3/4/2) and my enemy is attacking with a Hewing spear (7/1/3).
We are in melee range (which is much better for me).
Then my enemy in his turn takes a 2.5 ft to go from Melee to Onset (where it is better for him).
I think that, if I have "Pressing Attack" feat, I'm allowed to do a free 2.5 ft and keep my enemy inside my melee range where the combat is better for me.

 

[Supplement Four]

Games start to be more fluid, with AoO, 2.5 and 5ft steps becoming more and more important.

If/when you switch to the facing rules, it all becomes important as the PCs jockey for position against the NPCs. Shields only protect the front and left flank (if the shield is on the left arm). Foes get +2 attack to flanks, +4 to the back. Characters attack -5 to flanks and -10 to rear.

Footwork becomes very important. And, sometimes, you have to think a few steps ahead.

 

[LucaCherstich]

But if you add the 2.5 ft scale to that "facing", you can take visual record of Onset and Melee range too!!
And really, a whole new tactical world open to you eyes!
Or at least, that's what we have seen last night.

 

[galloglaich]

Make sure you have the updated version, I think it's 25.008

G.

Naw, crap. Drive Thru RPG gave me v. 25.004.

How do I get updated versions? I bought the bundle. Weapons of the Ancient World v. 1.74FF, and Part II v. 1.62.

Are the other two books updated, too?

Go on there and under "My Accounts" near the middle of the upper half of the page, look for a link which says "Products which have been updated since last download" or something similar.

I think only the Core Rules have been updated.

G.

 

[galloglaich]

But if you add the 2.5 ft scale to that "facing", you can take visual record of Onset and Melee range too!!
And really, a whole new tactical world open to you eyes!
Or at least, that's what we have seen last night.

Glad it worked out. This matches what I have found in using these rules. Maybe later you can introduce more elements

G.

 

[LucaCherstich]

I've given another look at you "Weapon of the Ancient World", which is the book I like the most among your three.
This time I get interested in the "Grapple Bonus".
I would like to use it as a further level or differentiation among weapons.
I would like to use it as a bonus to Trip & disarm.
In Conan Core rules, thus far, you can trip only with weapons which are SPECIFICALLY designed for trips. Bills, for example.
But not Battleaxes.
However, I've just realized how good are axes at tripping enemies or disarming them.
Sometimes ago I've even seen a video on Saxon Huskarls with great axes tripping enemies and the attacking them while they are prone!
This is clearly a wonderfull use of the grp bonus +(maybe) the Improved Trip feat!
In a few words, I'm thinking to declare "TRIP WEAPONS" each weapon which in the Codex has a Grapple Bonus, even if they never been trip weapons in Conan.
Here is my adaptation of Grp bonus to Conan rules:

Name:
I prefer to call it "Manoeuvre Bonus, in order to not confuse it wih Conan grapple tules.

Conan Manoeuvres affected by the Bonus:
- Disarm (you can do it with any weapon, even with those without a Grapple bonus)
- Trip (You can do it only with weapons with a grapple bonus)
- Sunder (NOT SO SURE ABUT THIS)

Effects:
GENERAL RULE: the Grp bonus goes only to the opposed rolls.

- Disarm: the bonus goes to the opposed attack rolls TOGETHER with the triple stat bonus...so it is much easier to disarm a spear-wielder (8/0/2)
when he is at short range (bonus 0) than whe he is at onset range ( 8 )
Note on disarm:
The bonus is added to BOTH the attacker and the Defender. So, using a Batle Axe (grp + 2 to disarm) to disarm somebody with a broadsword (grp +) will be much easier than to disarm somebody with an halberd (grp+ 3 ).

- Trip: the bonus does NOT go to the initial melee attack (There you use ONLY the triple stat according to the range) but it goes to the opposed Str roll like the bonus for the Improved Trip feat.
(I WANT YOUR thoughts ABOUT IT! Since I was not sure wether to add the bonus to the initial atk or to the opposed roll)
Note on trip: Victims of trip attempts do not use the Grp bonus of their weapons.

- Sunder: NOT SO SURE ABOUT IT since Hewing Spears (grp +2) should not be better than longswords (grp +0) when one sunders.

 

[galloglaich]

The main advantage of weapons with hooks etc. is that you can grapple without having to get into grapple range and do the AoO.

Historically, one of the other main uses of the hook on a bill or a halberd was to hook shiled rims to negate the shield before attack. Not sure how to model that in Conan though.

What does sunder mean again? Destroy the other weapon? Knock it out of their hand?

G.

 

[LucaCherstich]

"Sunder", as in normal d20, is a manoeuvre to smash another weapon into pieces.

The "shield Hook" can be easily done with a new Conan manoeuvre.
If I well understood, this is not something you can do with just a hook, you can do it even with a axe.
I give here a try:

NEW MANOEUVRE: SHIELD HOOK
This manoeuvre needs the use of Codex' triple stats and Grapple Bonus.
Action: standard, or one attack in a full-attack if one has more than one atk
Prerequisite: BAB +1
Circumstance: The character is attacking a shield-bearer with a weapon with a Grapple Bonus (in the Codex rules) like Axes, Bills, etc...
Effect: One of the attacks is converted in a shield-hook attack. This attack is made using both the Onset or Melee bonus AND the Grp. Bonus.
If this attack is succesful against somebody parrying with as shield, the attacks does not deal any damage, but that shield is considered to be made useless for this round.
All other attacks against this enemy (by others or by the one who did the Shield Hook) can ignore the shield bonus.
When the turn of the shield-bearer comes, he can free the shield with a Free action.

 

[galloglaich]

Yes that looks good to me. And yes the axe is used to hook shields too.

Instead of the sunder rule, in the Codex each weapon has hardness and HP, so you can strike the weapon (or when using active defense, whenever you get a tie)

This is where a weapon like a mace has a big advantage against say, a staff, and it also works well against shields.

G.

 

[galloglaich]

the whole idea of all this is that if you just mapped out the actual real features of real weapons and armor and fighting techniques, you'll find that they all interlock together in really, really interesting and dynamic ways. It's a superior alternative to just "reinventing the wheel" with all kinds of convoluted, and artificial rules.


G.

 

[Supplement Four]

I think only the Core Rules have been updated.

G.

Thanks. Did it. Got the updated version now.

 

[LucaCherstich]

Yes that looks good to me. And yes the axe is used to hook shields too.

Instead of the sunder rule, in the Codex each weapon has hardness and HP, so you can strike the weapon (or when using active defense, whenever you get a tie)

This is where a weapon like a mace has a big advantage against say, a staff, and it also works well against shields.

G.

YOu should be surprised by what is ALREADY in Conan:

Weapon stats:
Weapons had HD & Hp in Conan too!
The only problem is that often their Value range is higher than in the Codex (higher dmg rates too). Converting weapons from teh COex must be done "ad hoc", reasoning one every weapon


tie=possibility of weapon breakage: Conan has a similar optional rule (Conan Core Rules 2e p. 174) when the attack roll is EXACTLY the same number as the parry value.
Furthermore, if the weapon survives, it also can let a "weapon lock" happen (Conan Core Rules 2e p. 209)

Attacking the weapon: You can do that (without waiting for the tie) using the Sunder Manoeuvre.

 

[LucaCherstich]

Galloglaich, I'm still working to get as much as possible for Conan rpg from your Codex.
I wanted to ask you about hand-and-half weapons.
What are their game effects?
Can they be wield one-handed with a shield in the other hand?
My consideration regards especially a few of your HH weapons (e.g. Battle Axe) which I think should have been used one-handed with a shield.

In Conan the issue is quite odd.
The only two weapons which are considered hand-and-half, warsword (bastard sword) and sabre (longer scimitar) are used in a odd way.
They are considered Martial Weapons if used two-handed on foot or one-handed while mounted.
They are considered Exotic weapons if used two-handed mounted or one-handed on foot.
Does it make sense to you?

 

[galloglaich]

Not really, but which weapons are 'exotic' and which are 'martial' is a complicated question, I think it would vary by culture for example; in Australia maybe a boomerang isn't exotic, in Medieval England it probably is. And some weapons are quite useful even with a little training but much more useful with more training. That is why for example I made the speed slow on the longsword unless you have certain Martial Feats. If you know how to use it is an extremely fast weapon. It's similar for the katana... pretty effective but much better with training specific to the weapon. Whereas some like the rapier are almost useless without a lot of training and very good if you are trained; which is why I made the rapier exotic. Some of the others are really kind of questionable. I don't really like the Simple / Martial / Exotic paradigm that much but I didn't want to stray too far from SRD standard without compelling reasons.

The way I handle a hand and a half weapon is used one handed you get +1 reach and -1 speed, and damage steps down by one step, so for example 1-10 becomes 1-8 and etc. This matches my real life experiences.

As far as max damage goes, in the Codex we used Dynamic Criticals so with a Four-Die attack a dagger can for example cause 30 points of damage with a single piercing critical hit or 54 damage with a slash. So maybe one way to emulate this with the Codex weapons is to just bump up the critical damage or critical threat range for some of them.

G.

 

[Supplement Four]

Not really, but which weapons are 'exotic' and which are 'martial' is a complicated question, I think it would vary by culture for example; in Australia maybe a boomerang isn't exotic, in Medieval England it probably is.

The Conan game covers this point. An exotic weapon is a weapon that is usually exotic in most places in the world. But, if your character is from a place that would use the weapon regularly, then it is not considered exotic for your character.

In other words, the boomerang would be on the Exotic weapon chart, but a character from Australia could use it as a normal Martial or Simple weapon.