Combat Question

Jak Nazryth

Mongoose
It has been exactly 1 week since my first game. We finished rolling up characters and I made them play their last mission of their last term.
The main reason for doing this was to get everyone used to the game system (including me) and to allow all the players to know each other in advanced because they were all crew members aboard the Leviathan. I am an experienced GM in Fantasy, Sci-fi, Supers, etc.. over the years, but this is my first game at running Traveller using the new Mongoose Rules. I do have one person in the group who has been using Mongoose for almost a year now in his group. He is brand new to my group, having met him for the very first time last week. The "real" game starts in full next Tuesday and I want to double check some of the "corrections" he made during the combat phase of the intro mini-adventure.
He claims that for each point of success a character gets above 8, or the adjusted target, your weapon does that much more damage. For instance....
He was using a gauss rifle. He would role an adjusted 14 (needing an 8 ) to hit. He would roll his guass rifle damage, then add 6 more points of damage, because he surpassed his target number by 6. Is this correct? I did not argue with him at the time because I did not want to interrupt play. But I cannot find that specific rule in the core book. The only thing I can find is the effects chart on page 50, but there is nothing about increased damage. The only special effect I know of for effects is that laser weapons can blind a target if you roll a 6+ on effect. Neither can I find that rule under DAMAGE on page 65. Am I missing something or is this guy just plain wrong? Maybe he's bringing over a rule from a different game system?

Also, he got into a big argument with me in front of all my friends about jump distance and jump masking.
I am designing a J-3 and M-3 ship. I explained the 100 diameter rule, and gave an example of taking off from earth, the players would need to travel for "a few hours" to reach safe jump distance. This other guy broke in and said it would take much more than that, it would take around 30 hours at least. Later I consulted the chart and calculated about 245 minutes at M-3 and an earth sized planet... just over 4 hours. I'm not sure where he is getting his info. He also claimed that we needed to travel several millions of km "rimward" from earth another several million miles, because the orbit of the earth itself falls within the 100 diameter bubble of our sun. He also stated that most 'earth like" planets would fall within it's starts 100 diameter bubble. The example on page 141 gives the Suns "jump safe zone" at 140 million km, but on page 145 gives 1 AU at 150 million km (a 10 million km safe zone) Does anyone know where he is getting his information? I was granting him all his "corrections" since he's played Mongoose for a year, but I'm not sure he's correct in everything. Maybe he's one of those annoying guys who tries to prove other GM's wrong all the time. Anyway my friends tonight were complaining about all his arguing. If he corrects a MAJOR mistake I might be making with the Mongoose game mechanics I'm fine. But if he continually knit picks every single detail during the game, I'll just kick him out of my apartment. :)

Based on our jump safe bubble "conversation", that got me thinking. Under the world creator section, it gives all the charts for creating a planet, but nothing for creating it's host star, or the orbital range. Do any of the other traveller rule books cover this? If not has anyone ever tried creating a "star builder" or "solar system builder"? How close is the planet / moon / asteroid belt to it's host star where Jump Masking might actually come into play? anyone?

I want to clear all this up before next week when the "real" game begins.
Thanks.
 

locarno24

Cosmic Mongoose
He claims that for each point of success a character gets above 8, or the adjusted target, your weapon does that much more damage. For instance....
He was using a gauss rifle. He would role an adjusted 14 (needing an 8 ) to hit. He would roll his guass rifle damage, then add 6 more points of damage, because he surpassed his target number by 6. Is this correct?

Damage, first line:
Each weapon lists the damage it inflicts as a number of d6. Add the Effect of the attack roll to this damage.

'Effect' is a universal term for the amount your roll exceeded the target number (usually 8 or more). It means a really good shot - i.e. the universal disembodied Unreal Tournament voice going 'Headshottttt'.
Against oposition in good-quality body armour, it can often be the only thing allowing you to hurt them. Note that it doesn't apply in space combat, where precision aiming isn't possible.


I am designing a J-3 and M-3 ship. I explained the 100 diameter rule, and gave an example of taking off from earth, the players would need to travel for "a few hours" to reach safe jump distance. This other guy broke in and said it would take much more than that, it would take around 30 hours at least. Later I consulted the chart and calculated about 245 minutes at M-3 and an earth sized planet... just over 4 hours. I'm not sure where he is getting his info. He also claimed that we needed to travel several millions of km "rimward" from earth another several million miles, because the orbit of the earth itself falls within the 100 diameter bubble of our sun. He also stated that most 'earth like" planets would fall within it's starts 100 diameter bubble. The example on page 141 gives the Suns "jump safe zone" at 140 million km, but on page 145 gives 1 AU at 150 million km (a 10 million km safe zone) Does anyone know where he is getting his information? I was granting him all his "corrections" since he's played Mongoose for a year, but I'm not sure he's correct in everything.

Solar diameter (mean) = 1.392×10^6 km, which makes 100D 1.392×10^8 km

Earth orbit is 1.496×10^8 km, which is just outside it.
That data from NASA: http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/factsheet/sunfact.html


To get to 100D limit from an earth-equivalent world, using the same data source for radius:

Earth equatorial radius - 6378.1 km (avg)
100D limit = 200 x 6378.1 km = 1,275,620 km

Pulling off the interplanetary transit times table, that's somewhere between 1,000,000 km (3hrs @ 3g) and 10,000,000 km (10 hours @3g), and much closer to the former.

Quick check:

S=UT+1/2AT^2, assuming U=0 (at rest on a landing pad)
S=1/2AT^2
2S=AT^2
2S/A=T^2
SQRT(2S/A)=T

SQRT ([2x1,000,000x1,000m]/[3x9.81m/s/s])=8244s=~2 1/2 hours.

Obviously thats a simplification - assuming you're accelerating outwards continously the whole time, and no atmospheric or orbital shenannigans are involved, and that you're not trying to come to a relative stop at the 100D limit before you jump. But it serves to show that you are looking at the correct order of magnitude.



In short, yes, you're right on the orbital stuff, he's right on the damage thing.
 

Stainless

Mongoose
Jak Nazryth said:
He claims that for each point of success a character gets above 8, or the adjusted target, your weapon does that much more damage.

Correct. See Page 65 of the Core Rule Book, the first line in the Damage section;

"Each weapon lists the damage it inflicts as a number of d6. Add the Effect of the attack roll to this damage."

Jak Nazryth said:
Am I missing something...

Yes, see above. :oops:

Download a copy of my Traveller Combat Flowchart, that should help you.
 

rust

Mongoose
Jak Nazryth said:
Also, he got into a big argument with me in front of all my friends about jump distance and jump masking.
"Jump Masking" is only a real problem when the jump route to the desti-
nation system would lead through the 100D limit of one of the stars of the
two systems. In such a case the ship would first have to travel to a point
where the jump route does no longer touch the 100D limit of one of the
two stars, and this point can be quite some distance from the planet the
ship took off from, while the reentry point can be quite some distance
from the planet the ship intends to land on. Since planets as well as entire
systems are constantly "on the move", the actual relative positions and
distances keep changing, and with them the delays caused by jump mas-
king.

However, I would ignore this entire problem unless I want to use is as a
plot device. To calculate the actual positions and travel times is a nice
game for a bored mathematician, which I am not, and to arbitrarily deter-
mine where the jump shadows are at any one time is, well, arbitrary -
and usually completely unimportant for the story.

If your player really intends to pick that nit, promote him to the ship's as-
trogator, give him a calculator and the data of the relative positions and
orbital motions of the two systems in question, and keep him out of the
game until he has calculated the flight path. If he cannot do this, which I
consider as almost certain, it is obviously time for him to shut up and lea-
ve this to the referee's decision.
 

steelbrok

Banded Mongoose
I use this to quickly decide any jump shadowing and/or masking issues:

To check whether the World is shadowed: Roll 1d6-2 x 100 million km for Shadow
If the modified roll is 0 or less then only the jump diameter of the world is an issue
 

GJD

Mongoose
Politely ask him to quit arguing the toss all the time and if he insists on calling you on inconsequential details, have him eaten by lions. In game or real world, your choice, and subject to availability of trained, man-eating lions.
 

GJD

Mongoose
DFW said:
GJD said:
and subject to availability of trained, man-eating lions.

I've found that trained or not, lions will eat humans. :D

Well, yes, but trained lions can be directed to eat only those humans who have invoked your wrath, rather than whichever one is slowest and/or closest.

G
 

Jak Nazryth

Mongoose
Stainless said:
Jak Nazryth said:
He claims that for each point of success a character gets above 8, or the adjusted target, your weapon does that much more damage.

Correct. See Page 65 of the Core Rule Book, the first line in the Damage section;

"Each weapon lists the damage it inflicts as a number of d6. Add the Effect of the attack roll to this damage."

Jak Nazryth said:
Am I missing something...

Yes, see above. :oops:

Download a copy of my Traveller Combat Flowchart, that should help you.


I did read that part about adding the effect to the attack damage. But on the effect chart, it simply said "Above average hit" between +1 and +5, and “superior effect” with +6 and more… or something to that effect... I'm at work so I can't read the rulebook verbatim.
Anyway, I guess I was looking for a specific chart or specific language that stated... "Add 1 point of damage for each point you roll above the target number…” Something like that…, very specific and unambiguous. The phrase (adding the effect to the attack damage) referring back to the effect chart simply threw me, since there is nothing in the effect chart which specifically describes more damage.
Now I can see how people interpret “more damage” with the effect chart.
Thanks for clearing that up for me. 
 

BP

Mongoose
Effect is used in several different ways: alternately referring to 'degree of success' as points away from 8 (+/-); points over eight (as in combat damage); and 'margin of success' ranges (minimum, average, exceptional...) for task checks...
 

Jak Nazryth

Mongoose
Ok the first two points have been answered, thanks everyone!
Now lets talk about the third.
Has anyone seen or developed a star construction chart, or a solar system construction chart? I think I remember something 10 or 12 years ago, around the time when T20 came out, of a web site that helped build solar systems, including size and type of star, number of planets, gas giants, and where the "system prime" was located, be it on a small planet, moon of a gas giant, asteroid belt, etc...

I am creating scenario which involves a long lost ship in a decaying orbit around a brown dwarf. The player discover the endangered ship and have to fly danger close to the brown dwarf in order to discover the secrets of the long lost vessel. But I just need a simi-accurate description, size, etc... of brown dwarves. Other types of stars would be kinda nice as well when I want to create specific solar systems... like a Red Giant as part of a Yellow, or Red zone system. That kind of thing.

Anyone have any info on star or solar system creation charts?

Thanks
 

SSWarlock

Mongoose
Jak Nazryth said:
Based on our jump safe bubble "conversation", that got me thinking. Under the world creator section, it gives all the charts for creating a planet, but nothing for creating it's host star, or the orbital range. Do any of the other traveller rule books cover this? If not has anyone ever tried creating a "star builder" or "solar system builder"?
Yes. See the Download section of the "Heaven & Earth" software at
http://www.downport.com/wbd/HEAVEN_&_EARTH.htm

It was designed using some of the rules from MT and T4. Some people like it, some don't, but I've found it useful in generating details that were convenient to have in past campaigns.

I was on the beta testing team for this 'way back when it was being developed and though it's no longer supported by the developer (or anyone else), I'll try to help out with general use issues if you have any questions.
 

rust

Mongoose
Jak Nazryth said:
Anyone have any info on star or solar system creation charts?
Sorry, no charts, but if you are looking for scientifically accurate informa-
tion about world building, including information about brown dwarfs, this
would be a very good place to go:

http://evildrganymede.net/rpgs/worldbuilding/
 

hdan

Mongoose
If you don't care too much about scientific rigor, the Scouts supplement has rules for building out systems with many planets, including which orbits are within the star's jump mask.

But unless you want a special main world that takes a long time (relatively) to get to, I'd just rule that all main worlds are outside their star's jump mask.

In fact, you could explain away the occasional nearly unlivable main world with a high population as being the only barely usable rock outside the primary's jump mask, and have most of the population living on a nicer world inside the mask. The Imperium wouldn't interact with the "deep world" frequently, and would use the "main world" as effectively a very large high port.

Aside: I consider the "social" parts of the UWP (pop, gov, tech, law) to apply to the system, but the "physical" parts (size, atmo, hydro) to apply to the world that has the starport. In very many cases, the UWP all refers to the same world, but in some cases (higher TLs and higher POPs) you might have colonies scattered throughout the system. For high POP, high TL systems with small, barren rocks as their main worlds, I generally assume that there's a nicer planet down in the sun's jump mask where people actually live, and the rock is their interface with interstellar society.
 

Jak Nazryth

Mongoose
Stainless said:
Jak Nazryth said:
He claims that for each point of success a character gets above 8, or the adjusted target, your weapon does that much more damage.

Correct. See Page 65 of the Core Rule Book, the first line in the Damage section;

"Each weapon lists the damage it inflicts as a number of d6. Add the Effect of the attack roll to this damage."

Jak Nazryth said:
Am I missing something...

Yes, see above. :oops:

Download a copy of my Traveller Combat Flowchart, that should help you.
I'm giving a copy to each player during the game.
Great work, thank you! :)
 

Stainless

Mongoose
Imeanunoharm said:
Stainless said:
Download a copy of my Traveller Combat Flowchart, that should help you.

Nice!

Is there a starship one of these?

Sorry for the delay, I've been away on holiday for a week.

As a matter of fact, I have been working on one at the request of Don McKinney. I have a page done, but to get all the info in, it needs two pages. It takes a slightly different form to the Combat flowchart. It should be ready soon.
 

Solomani666

Mongoose
Never let a player argue with you about the rules during a game.

Protests should be looked into and corrections made if you see fit, but you are the referee and you have the final say.

You are the evil dictator with Machiavellian conspiracies they face, and also their angel of mercy.

You are their benevolent king when they succeed and their grand inquisitor when they fail.

The bestower of riches and of wrath.

They are not your equals, for you are the GM, lord of your Traveller universe and your die are the clotho, lachesis, and atropos of their characters fate.



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