Combat Question

rust

Mongoose
Old timer said:
Just my opinion, but that sounds like a rather confrontational way of being a Traveller ref.
Well, it is perfect for those who want to get rid of that job. :twisted:

The players of our group would accept an approach like this one for about
ten seconds, and would then tell such a wannabe dictator where to find the
door and how to ensure that he never comes back. :lol:
 

Stainless

Mongoose
Old timer said:
Just my opinion, but that sounds like a rather confrontational way of being a Traveller ref.

+1

I'd soon have no players if I behaved/thought that way. But regardless of that, it's not the way I work.
 

SSWarlock

Mongoose
Old timer said:
Just my opinion, but that sounds like a rather confrontational way of being a Traveller ref.
+2

One caveat..I do allow a player to bring up a rule they can document from my books. I admit my memory isn't the greatest and is getting worse. But if they don't like a ruling I make, I remind them that any such ruling also applies to NPCs and I have no problem in reversing a ruling if it later proves to be wrong or reduces Maximum Game Fun(tm).

But if they keep arguing, they're out of the campaign. I put a lot of work into my campaigns and GM for my enjoyment as well as that of my players (i.e. friends).
 

Jak Nazryth

Mongoose
I've been GM'ing since around 1983ish.
Since I'm learning the new Mongoose rules I don't mind people pointing out minor parts of the rules I'm not up to speed on, but I won't let things slow down my game unless it's a life or death for a player.
But I'm pretty firm on being upstaged in my own games. The second game went much smoother since I had greater command of the specifics, but most of it is GM'ing style. The player in question is a "typical" engineer in real life who loves travellers foundation in real physics to the point it binds his abilitly to treat it like a fun game. He will argue over things like "you can't make a fusion power sources small enough to fit in a star wars sized "blaster pistol" (plasma pistol) and that's why there are no "blasters" in Traveller because it just can't be created using all know physics.... but will ignore that a Traveller ship can rip a hole in reality, create a pocket universes, and jump several parcecs in a week's time! I love the fact that Traveller is based in real science more so that other sci-fi games, but I also treat Traveller like a sci-fi GAME I play for fun.
But...
No worries. I know how to handle troublesome players.
I just asked a question about the extra damage you get since the rules are so vague. When the rule says " add the effect from the effect chart" and when the chart simply says "above average hit" or "spectacular success" that leaves a lot of wiggle room for interpretation. No where does it specifically say in the rules... "for each point above 8 you do 1 more point of damage"... that's why I wanted to ask the group here. I have agreed that the rules suggest that rule, so I have adopted it as has everyone else.
:D
 

Solomani666

Mongoose
Old timer said:
Just my opinion, but that sounds like a rather confrontational way of being a Traveller ref.

1. Taking 20 minutes to argue over an interpretation of the rules is not fun for everyone, just an ego trip for a single gear-head player.
2. You chose to ignore the first few sentences.
3. You mistakenly interpreted the rest as some sort of 'attitude' that I think the GM should have towards the players.
4. Your glass is obviously half empty.


.
 

WhittD

Mongoose
Jak, I was having a hard time with that ruling also (I was a recreation major, not a mathematician or enginner) so I did some digging myself.

Here's the quote (page 50): "This margin of success is referred to as the Effect. For example, if a player rolls a 4 and 3, and has a +3 DM for a total of 10, then his Effect is 10 – 8 = 2."

So, if you need an 8 to hit, and you subtract 8 to get the effect, then all positive dice modifiers and extra points on the roll equal "The Effect", which is added to the damage. Did not realize that.

Also, there's this from page 66 (Armor): A hit with Effect 6+ always inflicts at least one point of damage, regardless of the target’s armour.

Looks like the fights just got meaner!

Does/should this apply to vehicle and space combat also? In the case of missiles (space combat, pg. 148-149), which could potentially have a to hit roll of 6 (based upon the result of the launch roll) you could be doing an extra 2 points of damage. Reasoning being, effect is based off of a base to hit of 8, and since a to hit of 6 is "better", there would be a +2 bonus. What do you think? Sounds like a house rule to me.

Thanks,
Whitt
 

BP

Mongoose
The editing was poor - and on a rather important point... :roll:

The first paragraph on pg 50 is actually rather explicit - though it refers to Effect with unnecessary phrases of 'degree of success' and 'margin of success'.
  • Effect is the value of the roll plus DMs minus 8. [1st sentence rephrased.]
It is a number and thus quantitative in nature. The word 'success' being a poor choice in defining Effect, because it really is just a value that can (like in combat) be used for other things.

In the table following that first paragraph, different 'Effect Totals' (sigh - the Effect isn't summed) are defined to provide descriptive qualities separated into Success/Failure categories.

Unfortunately, no term was established independently for this. So the phrase 'Effect' has been used to refer to both the numeric value and the descriptive quality. Given an Effect value one can get to the description - but, it obviously does not always work the other way around, so the two concepts are definitely not interchangeable and should have been given unique terms...

Personally, I simply use the term Outcome to mean the descriptive 'degree of success or failure'. Thus, as a referee, I would provide the result/consequence of the Outcome of the task check.
 

SSWarlock

Mongoose
WhittD said:
Also, there's this from page 66 (Armor): A hit with Effect 6+ always inflicts at least one point of damage, regardless of the target’s armour.

Looks like the fights just got meaner!

Does/should this apply to vehicle and space combat also?
The rules don't state this specifically but some of us on the forum do apply Effect to vehicle/space combat. IMO, if a PC's skill can modify how successful an attack is, then the Effect is added to damage.

This helps speed up combat and makes fighters only armed with lasers still capable of getting the attention of target ships with an armor factor of 12+. You may need a large flight of fighters to get odds good enough to do damage but then the big boys have such flights and the big carriers to deliver them.
 

DFW

Mongoose
WhittD said:
Does/should this apply to vehicle and space combat also? In the case of missiles (space combat, pg. 148-149), which could potentially have a to hit roll of 6 (based upon the result of the launch roll) you could be doing an extra 2 points of damage. Reasoning being, effect is based off of a base to hit of 8, and since a to hit of 6 is "better", there would be a +2 bonus. What do you think? Sounds like a house rule to me.

Thanks,
Whitt

Not really. Different mechanics.
 
SSWarlock said:
WhittD said:
Also, there's this from page 66 (Armor): A hit with Effect 6+ always inflicts at least one point of damage, regardless of the target’s armour.

Looks like the fights just got meaner!

Does/should this apply to vehicle and space combat also?
The rules don't state this specifically but some of us on the forum do apply Effect to vehicle/space combat. IMO, if a PC's skill can modify how successful an attack is, then the Effect is added to damage.

This helps speed up combat and makes fighters only armed with lasers still capable of getting the attention of target ships with an armor factor of 12+. You may need a large flight of fighters to get odds good enough to do damage but then the big boys have such flights and the big carriers to deliver them.

I go with applying effect damage in attacks on vehicles (including robots, doors etc) but not in space combat. The main reason is it is explicitly mentioned for personal level combat, but not mentioned for space combat, I just tend to think that in an engagement over thousands of km with very powerful weapons even a +6 effect is not going to make much difference. It is, though, a pretty debatable point.

Egil
 
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