Canon Versus stats....

[emperorpenguin]

but we are talking a laser that can cut through hulls, one starfury wouldnt stop its energy.

also on hyperions. the one that was helping B5 defend the great machine from the aliens didnt have side guns, it had turreted guns on top, that could fire port or starboard, so do we want dual arc guns for the hyperion that can only fire one direction per turn?

it didn't watch it again and you'll see the weapon scorched the rotating section

the Hyperion did have side guns!

 

[emperorpenguin]

everyone focuses on the rear laser, what about the hyperion?

what about it? I'm trying to remember what it fired in "in the begining"
not seen em for a long time though

the fact it fires a laser from a side pulse cannon turret

 

[Da Boss]

For what its worth I think it sort of depends on how broken or not the present edition of ACTA is thought to be and how far from the canon it is now.

Should Shadow Ships hit everything but White Stars........
the ever interesting discussion about the Primus (or not a Primus) engaging B5.
Should early EA ships simply not be able to hit Minbari ships.
Should White Stars be SM or be able to flip over
Should Narn Ships blow up when fired on - by anyone!
etc

The vast majority of ships are made up for all races, except perhaps EA, and won't have to worry about the show - although I understand alot of weight is put on those from the B5Wars game - although I believe it also had major rules differences? - for instance in how Interceptors worked?

The show, as has been said so many times before, uses the ships as elements in a drama and on occassion sacrifices or imporves their abilities/weapons etc to fit the scene.

re Beams - pretty much any time a non Shadow / Vorlon ships is hit with a beam, any beam, it dies - should that be in the game? - I don't think so unless you want a larger scale game and a simplified one.

Most ships in this edition are tweeked and adjusted for balance - by no means all, and that should be what 2nd Ed is going to do?

anyway have fun, thats whats important

 

[captainsmirk]

The AoG solution was that the Clarkstown was a Command Hyperion, to explain the side laser turrets and red rather than blue pules it fired.

The AoG command Hyperion had lasers instead of the side pulse cannons and heavy pulse cannons (the red pulses) forwards.

Why the ordinary Hyperion had lasers (especially the rear firing ones) I don't reallly know...
Those were supposed to not be the side turrets but fixed mountings with forward and aft gun ports. Could never work out where they were exactly, plus the rear turrets were completely ignored apart from on the Command model...


Nick

 

[Balance]

I actually did put foreward the WS being boresighted cos it looks like it in the show but it got chucked out

and I seconded you! :wink:

I assumed the WS was given a F arc weapon for the same reason most fighters are given T weapons... As a reflection of it's maneuverability.

 

[H]

I would have thought it's actual maneuvreability reflected it's maneuvreability, 2*90 degree turns, means that it should be able to bring a boresight on "most" ships, except anything right behind it! then with it's improved crew quality it could probably come about to get those too!

 

[Burger]

I actually did put foreward the WS being boresighted cos it looks like it in the show but it got chucked out

and I seconded you! :wink:

I assumed the WS was given a F arc weapon for the same reason most fighters are given T weapons... As a reflection of it's maneuverability.

Thats why I thought a Shadow Ship had a T arc, too... but obviously not! That was changed, because we only see Shadow Ships firing forwards. But the WS was left with F arc despite the show.

 

[emperorpenguin]

I would have thought it's actual maneuvreability reflected it's maneuvreability, 2*90 degree turns, means that it should be able to bring a boresight on "most" ships, except anything right behind it! then with it's improved crew quality it could probably come about to get those too!

I agree completely (same with the shadows) why give the ship an extra benefit to boost something it already does excellently!?

With turreted shadows the vorlons have a really rough time

 

[H]

if we keep agreeing, I may have to take you out for a candle lit dinner!! :lol:

 

[Jetbaker]

This is just my 2 cents but here goes. Shadow vessels as a whole, seem to shoot from farther distances in the show than represented in the game. Shadows seem to do a shift phase in and out in the show that I dont think is properly represented in the game. If shadows are so good and manipulation and stealth why do the Minbari seem to have the corner market on it. If the Shadows are superior as being one of the oldest races than why do their fighters and pretty every ship suck before you get to a War PL. THe shadow cloud is just plain cheese and if ever used as a Space station gets even worse. Should remove that from the game or do something to it to tone it down as it just kills everything.

Why do Centauri have beam weapons I for one dont recall an episode where they shoot one.

Ya know I could go on and on but these are just a few glaring things that came to my mind right away. I do believe balance and canon can be had but iy will never be perfect. Personally, I play from fluff, whether that is in a campaign or a pick up game. For instance, I would NEVER ally with the Shadows if I am playing ABbai (another weak and odd army all to itself) as that is just canon to me. Likewise, if I am playing Shadows I would never ally with Vorlons but rather attack them as much as possible. Again just my 2 cents is all.

 

[emperorpenguin]

if we keep agreeing, I may have to take you out for a candle lit dinner!! :lol:

so long as you're buying! :lol:

 

[emperorpenguin]

Why do Centauri have beam weapons I for one dont recall an episode where they shoot one. .

based on a decision AOG made, again based on a wireframe image

 

[Hash]

THe shadow cloud is just plain cheese and if ever used as a Space station gets even worse. Should remove that from the game or do something to it to tone it down as it just kills everything.

Space stations are generally used in campaigns and set scenarios...set scenarios you can tweak to make "fair". In a campaign, you can't buy a space station at the start so you'd have to spend RR to get a Shadow Cloud for the fleet...do you know how much that costs!?

Armageddon Level - 80pts
Space Station multiplier - x2
Shadow (ancient) multiplier x2 (to reflect the fact that Shadows regenerate...except the cloud doesn't!!!)

That makes for a huge 320RR...if you can earn that amount of RR in one campaign (without needing to buy your own, expensive reinforcements) then all power to you my friend! * sigh * sadly that pretty much writes Shadow Clouds out of the game apart from set scenarios but then you can always tweak those to preference.

 

[Burger]

Hash, you've applied the Shadow multiplier twice.
Armageddon level: 40 RR
Shadow multiplier x2: 80 RR
Space Station multiplier x2: 160 RR

Still 160 is more than most people see in an entire campaign!

 

[Jhary]

The hole Shadow Hyperspace stuff is in games terms strange. When i remember right they coud also cloak and stay in real space. Like go the half way up to hyperspace and stay theire.

 

[Hash]

Hash, you've applied the Shadow multiplier twice.
Armageddon level: 40 RR
Shadow multiplier x2: 80 RR
Space Station multiplier x2: 160 RR

Still 160 is more than most people see in an entire campaign!

Oh well - 80RR stuck in my head for some reason...I'm just used to paying ludicrous amounts for new ships - I agree that I'd like to see the Shadows reflect the show a little better in terms of Hyperspace use..although phasing in and out may be more than a trifle unbalanced.

 

[emperorpenguin]

The hole Shadow Hyperspace stuff is in games terms strange. When i remember right they coud also cloak and stay in real space. Like go the half way up to hyperspace and stay theire.

we don't see any suggestion they cloak.....

 

[lastbesthope]

They don't cloak, they just shift in and out of hyperspace on a whim.

LBH

 

[Da Boss]

Shadows seem to do a shift phase in and out in the show that I dont think is properly represented in the game. If shadows are so good and manipulation and stealth why do the Minbari seem to have the corner market on it. If the Shadows are superior as being one of the oldest races than why do their fighters and pretty every ship suck before you get to a War PL.
.

Difficult to make the admitably cool effct work in the game I guess
Yeah I agree re the Shadows and Minbari - i always understood the Shadows were ripping through them until the Vorlons put their oar in - again. The Minbari tlak about the shadows as ships "that never miss"
However the Scout is a good ship.............I don't think they, as a race, have enough options to make them as interesting as they should be to fight with or against.
However one thing is the Shadows don't like to stick around if they are losing - maybe there shoudl be something like the Necrons - if they loose X amount of their fleet - they give up and phase out - could then make them harder but if that was wanted.

 

[Celisasu]

Well we know that Shadow Fighters can defeat Frazis but we also know they can be destroyed by Frazis too(although the loss ratio favors the Shadows). At least based on the one episode where we see them fighting. So their fighter tech can't be that much better than the younger races.....well other than the fact that it's the only jump capable fighter in the series.

As for the Drakh ship, maybe the reason it didn't fire is that it was a transport of some sort? Not a mothership, carrier, or cruiser. Just a transport designed to shuttle Raiders from Point A to Point B and completely unarmed otherwise. Something to serve as a sort of interim carrier while the Drakh get facilities up to produce proper ships to make up for the loss of Za'Ha'Dum?