Basic Training confusion

[E4MC]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about whether or not you get to roll for a skill in addition to basic training at the beginning of subsequent careers, with most people concluding that you don't get to. The rules say:

For your first career only, instead of rolling for a skill,
you get all the skills listed on the Service Skills table at
level 0 as your basic training. For subsequent careers,
you may pick any one skill listed in the Service Skills
table at level 0 as your basic training.

Interpreting these rules as written, it is ONLY in the first term of the first career, that you get all the skills listed on the Service Skills table at level 0 instead of rolling for a skill. The rules DO NOT say, "For subsequent careers, INSTEAD OF ROLLING FOR A SKILL, you may pick any one skill listed on the Service Skills table at level 0 as your basic training. So for subsequent careers you get basic training and get to roll for a skill.

 

[Geir]

So for subsequent careers you get basic training and get to roll for a skill.

You know... I've not been treating it that way, but it makes a lot of sense and it doesn't make that first term in the new career suck as much.
Now, just have to deal with that former admiral suddenly becoming a drive hand instead of a merchant ship captain...

 

[Vormaerin]

Now, just have to deal with that former admiral suddenly becoming a drive hand instead of a merchant ship captain...

That's the player's job to figure out. Presumably he didn't want to (or could not) continue his career by moving over to Merchant or Corporate official career and he didn't have enough money saved up to buy a ship to tramp around. Which means he's probably not good at financial planning .

But rich/famous/whatever dudes running off to do adventures is not exactly unheard of IRL. And if he's not actually rich for some reason....

But it does help if he has enemies or is happy to invent in a scandal like being the admiral in charge when any of the various scandals like tailhook or that Fat Leonard thing went down. Or, at least, be the scapegoat for one if they don't want to be the crooked admiral...

 

[Reisender]

There seems to be a lot of confusion about whether or not you get to roll for a skill in addition to basic training at the beginning of subsequent careers, with most people concluding that you don't get to. The rules say:

For your first career only, instead of rolling for a skill,
you get all the skills listed on the Service Skills table at
level 0 as your basic training. For subsequent careers,
you may pick any one skill listed in the Service Skills
table at level 0 as your basic training.

Interpreting these rules as written, it is ONLY in the first term of the first career, that you get all the skills listed on the Service Skills table at level 0 instead of rolling for a skill. The rules DO NOT say, "For subsequent careers, INSTEAD OF ROLLING FOR A SKILL, you may pick any one skill listed on the Service Skills table at level 0 as your basic training. So for subsequent careers you get basic training and get to roll for a skill.

You either receive a basic training (in your first term of any career) or you pick a table and roll on it but not both. Basic training is either 6 skills for your first career or pick one for any other career. That's how I read it. Btw. picking one skill from a table is better than having to roll IMHO.

 

[Vormaerin]

Picking one skill at 0 is not better than a roll for a skill at +1. Even if there is a skill you are desperate to have, the Connections rule and Group Skill Pack are likely to give you that skill.

The pick a skill at 0 is just a career change punishment.

 

[E4MC]

You either receive a basic training (in your first term of any career) or you pick a table and roll on it but not both. Basic training is either 6 skills for your first career or pick one for any other career. That's how I read it. Btw. picking one skill from a table is better than having to roll IMHO.

You do it that way if you want. But If that's the way you're reading it, you need to take a reading comprehension course; because it doesn't say that.

 

[Reisender]

You do it that way if you want. But If that's the way you're reading it, you need to take a reading comprehension course; because it doesn't say that.

If you say so.

 

[Vormaerin]

You do it that way if you want. But If that's the way you're reading it, you need to take a reading comprehension course; because it doesn't say that.

You can disagree with someone, but you don't need to be a jerk about it.

 

[E4MC]

You can disagree with someone, but you don't need to be a jerk about it.

Well, being a jerk wasn't my intent; I don't consider speaking the truth to be being a jerk.

 

[NOLATrav]

In second and subsequent careers, first term, I’ve always allowed a player to roll a skill in addition to the chosen level 0 basic training skill - after the survival roll if they make it.

 

[Vormaerin]

Well, being a jerk wasn't my intent; I don't consider speaking the truth to be being a jerk.

There was absolutely no useful purpose to claiming the person had a reading comprehension problem. It isn't a fact and, even if it were, it is ad hominem that adds nothing to the conversation. So that comes across as being a jerk. In the future, just don't insult people is my advice.

 

[Shadowblayde99]

How does this apply to a military career after graduation from an academy? If I remember, in the academy you get all service skills at 0 and 3 of them at 1. So your first career after graduation, you get...... what exactly?

 

[Saladman]

Where are you pulling that quote from, E4MC? My 2e book says

[pg 10] If this is first term of Career, go through Basic Training, Otherwise, choose a skill table and roll

and

[pg 16] For your first career only, you get all the skills listed in the Service Skills table at Level 0 as your basic training. For any subsequent careers, you may pick any one skill listed in the Service Skills table at Level 0 as your basic training.

Read literally, you always get basic training instead of rolling, however good or bad basic training is for you. Maybe I've missed some errata, or a later printing?

On the other hand, in 1e you got your basic training of either kind, then still rolled for your one skill. This was pretty clear from pages 5 and 8. I happen to like that way better in itself, but I'm contrarian enough I'd push back on a player trying to ruleslawyer the 2e version instead of just seeing if I or the group would houserule it. Given how the language changed, I assumed the change was deliberate.

How does this apply to a military career after graduation from an academy? If I remember, in the academy you get all service skills at 0 and 3 of them at 1. So your first career after graduation, you get...... what exactly?

Academy is pre-career, your next term is still your first career, the service skills from academy at 0 are as with basic training not simply basic training, and the three skills at 1 are only if you immediately enter the military career the academy is tied to. My literal reading is you get basic training all over again in your first real career, which is apparently a waste unless you switch careers, except you're really still coming out ahead for going Academy, graduating and going into that branch anyway - three skills at 1 all at once (of your choice, even), so I'm not shedding any tears for skipping one roll.

This one's finicky enough I'd be willing to entertain this isn't exactly what the writer intended, but it is what the writer wrote.

 

[Vormaerin]

The 2023 update version has the less clear language that he quoted. I have to say, Mongoose's grammatical clarity and precision is not a hill I would choose to die on, but he's welcome to do so if he thinks differently.

I am pretty sure that everyone who interprets it as 'basic instead of the roll every time' either has played earlier versions of the game or learned from someone who did. I am personally in favor of interpretations that produce more skills, since I don't find Traveller unduly generous in chargen.

 

[Saladman]

The 2023 update version has the less clear language that he quoted.

That explains things. Applying my own rule above, if we assume that the grammatical change was deliberate I could follow the reasoning behind his interpretation. Although reading it only in isolation I still consider it unclear.

I am personally in favor of interpretations that produce more skills, since I don't find Traveller unduly generous in chargen.

The irony to my persona here on this board is I've done things like two skills at 0 = that skill at 1, and "declare career and specialty first, roll d6 second, choose applicable table for result third." And very rarely I'll ask a player if they want to re-roll if they've gotten the short end of the stick. But I don't have to torture the text to get the result I want, I just own up to them as house rules.

Also I've always paired those house rules with term limits instead of unlimited geriatric admirals, since I do find unlimited terms unduly generous, or at least unnecessary if you're not fond of handing out difficulty penalties to everything.

E4MC, if you're the GM just run it the way you want, and make sure your players know so they all get the same deal. If you're a player, pitch the way you want to the GM, but maybe try "I think this is funner for players" over "secret decoder ring says the way I want is correct."

 

[Vormaerin]

yeah, I just find the "feels bad" of "Oh, you rolled a thing you already had so you get nothing" far outweighs any possible "too many skills in actual play" possibility (as if that was a real thing) so, yeah, I house rule a few things about stacking to be more generous as well.

 

[Fulcs]

I wonder if we could tempt Matt into a wee rules clarification on this one?

In short, does choosing a Basic Training skill at 0 replace the normal skill roll for subsequent careers, or do you choose a basic training skill at 0 and also get to roll for a career skill as usual?

The first edition rules would seem to point to 'as well' and that's how Seth S did it in his videos, but would be smashing to hear what was actually intended.

I know I can decide for myself but I do have moments where both answers call to me equally, and having it 'from the horse's mouth' can untangle my brain cogs.

 

[Condottiere]

I assume the entire system was geared towards game balance.

Personally, I would think that having maybe half the skills listed in Service Skills makes you an ideal candidate, and get a number of bonuses during that first term, second career, or otherwise.

 

[Arkathan]

The way I run it is that if on your second or subsequent career you have any skill on the Service Skills table, you do not need training and proceed normally, without the basic training "penalty." If you only get one zero level skill for basic training, you get to pick which one, and you already have it, then you don't need basic training. So they can choose to pick a zero from Service Skills or roll a +1 on any available table.

 

[Shadowblayde99]

The rules say:

For your first career only, instead of rolling for a skill,
you get all the skills listed on the Service Skills table at
level 0 as your basic training. For subsequent careers,
you may pick any one skill listed in the Service Skills
table at level 0 as your basic training.

Looking at the original post and the wording of the rulebook, if you remove the words "instead of rolling for a skill", it now makes sense. For the first career, you get all service skills at 0. For subsequent careers, you pick a service skill at 0 for your first term.

I think the part about "rolling for a skill" only refers to future terms in that career.

Of course, you then have to ask why you only get 0 for all service skills in your first career and why not the same for subsequent careers.