- Pre-career phase
- Character is accepted into Navy Military Academy
- Gains all associated Service Skills of the Navy Career at Level 0
- Character graduates. Gains +1 EDU
- Character is accepted into Navy Military Academy
- First Career
- Character successfully applies for the Noble/Dilettante career
- As this is his first career - he gets all Service Skills of Noble at Level 0
Basic Training - Military Academies
- Thread starter Fresnel
- Start date
Compare it to going to University. Where you get a lvl 1 and lvl 2 skill instead of six lvl 0s. I don't see a reason to be harsh about this. It isn't like Traveller leaves characters with oodles of skills that you need to be worried about some extra lvl 0s, which may overlap anyway.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Someone might compile a list of minimum skills, to, for example, be certified as a medical doctor, who can legally practice medicine, and dispense medication.
Then you have something to compare against.
Then you have something to compare against.
Reisender
Cosmic Mongoose
As this is listed as a Graduation Benefit the question arises what happens if you don't graduate but still enter the career associated with the Military Academy. Since you get the basic training of the appropriate career upon entering the Academy what skill(s) do you get in your first term in that career? My Core Rulebook (2020) seems to leave that open. So far I have ruled that you roll for your skill like it would be your second term.
If you don't graduate, you don't have automatic admission to the career. You are applying normally and the system presumes that you are treated normally. I'm personally fine with not making someone double up on basic like that. But I don't feel that that is the rule as written.
Reisender
Cosmic Mongoose
oh, yeah, that is the case. Huh.
Anyway, I'm not a fan of any of the "gotcha, you get nothing" bits in chargen. So I would do it as you say. But there is nothing in the rules that say you don't treat it as basic. Same as the argument that multiple starts in Drifter are "new careers" if you muster out, fail to get into something else, and resume as a drifter.
Anyway, I'm not a fan of any of the "gotcha, you get nothing" bits in chargen. So I would do it as you say. But there is nothing in the rules that say you don't treat it as basic. Same as the argument that multiple starts in Drifter are "new careers" if you muster out, fail to get into something else, and resume as a drifter.
Actually there’s a lot more than a increase in EDU if you graduate
Graduation Benefits
• If entering the same military career the academy is tied to, select any three Service Skills and increase them to level 1.
• Increase EDU by +1.
• If the Traveller graduated with honours, increase
SOC by +1 as well.
• Graduation allows automatic entry into the military
career the academy is tied to, so long as it is the first career attempted by the Traveller after graduation.
• Graduation allows a commission roll to be taken before the first term of a military career, so long as it is the first career chosen after university, with DM+2. Success will mean the Traveller enters the career
at officer rank 1. If graduation was with honours, the Traveller will automatically pass this roll
But you get no benefit for this term. So you’re giving up money and materials for this term in order to get a chance for a commission and more skills. Another thing is you get no skills for your first term if you go the academy route because you already have them at the stated level.
Also in all the previous versions of Traveller if you entered a military academy graduate or not you first term had to be in the connected military.
Graduation Benefits
• If entering the same military career the academy is tied to, select any three Service Skills and increase them to level 1.
• Increase EDU by +1.
• If the Traveller graduated with honours, increase
SOC by +1 as well.
• Graduation allows automatic entry into the military
career the academy is tied to, so long as it is the first career attempted by the Traveller after graduation.
• Graduation allows a commission roll to be taken before the first term of a military career, so long as it is the first career chosen after university, with DM+2. Success will mean the Traveller enters the career
at officer rank 1. If graduation was with honours, the Traveller will automatically pass this roll
But you get no benefit for this term. So you’re giving up money and materials for this term in order to get a chance for a commission and more skills. Another thing is you get no skills for your first term if you go the academy route because you already have them at the stated level.
Also in all the previous versions of Traveller if you entered a military academy graduate or not you first term had to be in the connected military.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "you get no benefit for this term". You mean the Academy term? yeah, you don't get any benefits for education of any sort because you don't muster out.
The 3 skills you get for graduation if you continue in the same career are the replacement for the basic you'd otherwise double up on. What isn't clear is if you don't graduate from the academy but still go in the same career. It seems like you just get a wasted term as written. Which is not cool as a design.
The 3 skills you get for graduation if you continue in the same career are the replacement for the basic you'd otherwise double up on. What isn't clear is if you don't graduate from the academy but still go in the same career. It seems like you just get a wasted term as written. Which is not cool as a design.
Eh, you failed to graduate. Dont fail - if you do fail, they have to make sure youre actually trained. If you do fail why exactly do you want to keep going with that career? 'Oh damn i suck at this, lets do it some more!'
I think its fine that you lose out on.. one skill.
Or, my house rule, i treat it like its a second term in that career, so you do get that.. 1 skill.
But the difference doesnt really matter that much.
I think its fine that you lose out on.. one skill.
Or, my house rule, i treat it like its a second term in that career, so you do get that.. 1 skill.
But the difference doesnt really matter that much.
Sure. It's just a feels bad design that doesn't really serve a purpose. It is easy enough to imagine a story with that circumstance: Enrolled in the Planetary Naval Academy, washed out. Enlisted in the Imperial Navy to get off world to avoid the shame. However, the game is abstract so Imperial Navy and a local planetary navy are the same career mechanically.
There aren't very many cases where you could end up repeating the same basic training, so it's a pretty minor glitch. But that was the question being asked.
There aren't very many cases where you could end up repeating the same basic training, so it's a pretty minor glitch. But that was the question being asked.
FreeTrav
Cosmic Mongoose
My take on the whole military/naval academy-followed-by-service thing is close to the way the US Armed Forces handle it: If you go through the Academy and graduate, you are commissioned in the Academy's service (Army for USMA West Point, Navy for USNA Annapolis, Air Force for USAFA Colorado Springs) and have an eight-year obligation on active duty (there is a Reserve option, but I couldn't find details - it's longer, though). If you fail to graduate, you incur debt to repay the US for your (partial) education; the rate is comparable to the so-called Ivy League private universities (about US$60,000 per year). If you are found unfit for service for other than medical disability incurred as a result of service (discharged other than honorable circumstances), you incur a similar debt (though it might be pro-rated for the period that you served in good standing). You do NOT have a choice about going into the service if you graduate - you WILL serve your obligation. Thus:
(note: I rule-of-thumb the Imperial Credit at Cr1 to US$3)
Szabo Istvan is accepted to the Imperial Naval Academy at Regina. Midshipman Szabo graduates at a mid-level in his class; not a spectacular student, but apt enough, and he is commissioned an Ensign in the Imperial Navy, in which he is now obligated to serve two terms. At the end of his first term, there are no black marks against him, and he enters his second term, still an Ensign. He applies for promotion, the review board finds no reason to deny, and he is promoted to Leftenant, Junior Grade. At the end of his second term, there are still no black marks against him, but Leftenant (J.G.) Szabo doesn't really feel that the Navy is where he belongs, so he resigns his commission, and seeks other employment. He has the skills he developed in the Academy, plus those developed as part of his active service (consult the Traveller rulebook for details).
Ephraim Eral applies to and is accepted by the Imperial Military Academy at Capital. His marks in earlier schooling were good, but he never developed the self-discipline needed to be truly a good student. This does him a disservice, and after two years, the Academy dismisses him, and he receives notice that he will be required to reimburse the Army for their (failed) investment in his education. As a result, Eral has no useful skills, and debt of Cr40,000.
John Carter is nominated to the Imperial Military Academy, Terra. In spite of the handicap of gravity 2.5 times that of his native Mars, he graduates at the top of his class, and is one of the exceedingly rare graduates that is commissioned directly to First Leftenant (house rule: roll 18 [natural only] on 3D) instead of the normal Second Leftenant. He is sent to the Solomani front, which has heated up (again), and distinguishes himself in battle, earning a battlefield promotion to Captain. He does not face a review board at the end of his term; rather, he is retained for his second term both as part of his obligation for commissioning from the Academy, and as part of a 'stop-loss' order issued out of Army HQ/Domain of Sol. He serves two years more, at which point a cease-fire is negotiated. Shortly afterward, an accusation arises that Captain John Carter committed atrocities during an occupation of a Solomani world. The investigation does not substantiate the accusation, but there is enough question that Captain Carter is brought before a court martial, and, while the Army does not feel they can stockade him, they can and do discharge him from service, other than honorably, for 'conduct unbecoming an officer of the Imperial Army'. As he has not completed his eight-year obligation to the Army, he additionally incurs debt for his education, prorated against his service, so that, having served six years of his required eight, he only has to pay for one year of his Academy education, or Cr20,000. Carter has some skills from the Army and its Academy, but with a discharge under other than honorable circumstances, his possibilities for employment may be limited, and his debt difficult to discharge.
NOTE: There is a service obligation associated with the United States Merchant Marine Academy (USMMA) Kings Point, as well, but it is not as "cut and dried" as the other three service academies. For Traveller purposes, I would treat the Merchant Academy the same as the Military or Naval Academies - two terms of service in the Merchant (Merchant Marine) career, or incur debt.
For ordinary college (i.e., not associated with a particular Imperial service), I would leave it up to the referee's discretion whether the character graduates (or flunks out) with debt, and if so with how much.
(note: I rule-of-thumb the Imperial Credit at Cr1 to US$3)
Szabo Istvan is accepted to the Imperial Naval Academy at Regina. Midshipman Szabo graduates at a mid-level in his class; not a spectacular student, but apt enough, and he is commissioned an Ensign in the Imperial Navy, in which he is now obligated to serve two terms. At the end of his first term, there are no black marks against him, and he enters his second term, still an Ensign. He applies for promotion, the review board finds no reason to deny, and he is promoted to Leftenant, Junior Grade. At the end of his second term, there are still no black marks against him, but Leftenant (J.G.) Szabo doesn't really feel that the Navy is where he belongs, so he resigns his commission, and seeks other employment. He has the skills he developed in the Academy, plus those developed as part of his active service (consult the Traveller rulebook for details).
Ephraim Eral applies to and is accepted by the Imperial Military Academy at Capital. His marks in earlier schooling were good, but he never developed the self-discipline needed to be truly a good student. This does him a disservice, and after two years, the Academy dismisses him, and he receives notice that he will be required to reimburse the Army for their (failed) investment in his education. As a result, Eral has no useful skills, and debt of Cr40,000.
John Carter is nominated to the Imperial Military Academy, Terra. In spite of the handicap of gravity 2.5 times that of his native Mars, he graduates at the top of his class, and is one of the exceedingly rare graduates that is commissioned directly to First Leftenant (house rule: roll 18 [natural only] on 3D) instead of the normal Second Leftenant. He is sent to the Solomani front, which has heated up (again), and distinguishes himself in battle, earning a battlefield promotion to Captain. He does not face a review board at the end of his term; rather, he is retained for his second term both as part of his obligation for commissioning from the Academy, and as part of a 'stop-loss' order issued out of Army HQ/Domain of Sol. He serves two years more, at which point a cease-fire is negotiated. Shortly afterward, an accusation arises that Captain John Carter committed atrocities during an occupation of a Solomani world. The investigation does not substantiate the accusation, but there is enough question that Captain Carter is brought before a court martial, and, while the Army does not feel they can stockade him, they can and do discharge him from service, other than honorably, for 'conduct unbecoming an officer of the Imperial Army'. As he has not completed his eight-year obligation to the Army, he additionally incurs debt for his education, prorated against his service, so that, having served six years of his required eight, he only has to pay for one year of his Academy education, or Cr20,000. Carter has some skills from the Army and its Academy, but with a discharge under other than honorable circumstances, his possibilities for employment may be limited, and his debt difficult to discharge.
NOTE: There is a service obligation associated with the United States Merchant Marine Academy (USMMA) Kings Point, as well, but it is not as "cut and dried" as the other three service academies. For Traveller purposes, I would treat the Merchant Academy the same as the Military or Naval Academies - two terms of service in the Merchant (Merchant Marine) career, or incur debt.
For ordinary college (i.e., not associated with a particular Imperial service), I would leave it up to the referee's discretion whether the character graduates (or flunks out) with debt, and if so with how much.
This is a life path system no one ever said that things would go your way. It’s a gamble if you graduate you get three bonus skill for a net of two more than if you went straight into the service and served two terms (two terms one school one first term in service) if you don’t graduate and go into the same service you don’t get any skills for your first term. If you graduate you have a chance to start as an officer if you don’t graduate you start as enlisted. If you have the attributes it’s a good risk.
That's fine. I think that losing out on 2 skills, +1 EDU and any chance of commission in that service (unless your Soc is 9+ to allow a non-first term attempt) is sufficient downside for missing a single roll. But ymmv.
The effect of the current mechanic is to encourage the player not to join the same service type after failing to graduate. If you do literally any other career, you'll get up to 6 skills at 0 (and not lose your commission chance. if relevant) compared to nothing at all. Might be the intent. I don't think it's necessary.
The effect of the current mechanic is to encourage the player not to join the same service type after failing to graduate. If you do literally any other career, you'll get up to 6 skills at 0 (and not lose your commission chance. if relevant) compared to nothing at all. Might be the intent. I don't think it's necessary.
That’s why in previous versions of Traveller if you failed to graduate or succeed your next term was automatically in the service you went to school for. This makes lots of sense and is my house rule.
FreeTrav
Cosmic Mongoose
I would say that if you flunk out of the Academy, but choose to enlist in the same service anyway, you go through the same boot camp that any enlistee does, except that you're older than the typical recruit. You'll still get the same skills, but having flunked out of the Academy, you'll probably always be passed over for Officer Candidate School, and may be shunted into staff NCO slots instead of leadership slots.
That's how it works in Traveller. You can't roll for commision in Term 1 if you failed out of the academy. And you can only roll for commission in term 1 unless you are SOC 9+. The issue is just one of game mechanics about how repeating basic training works. Because you get all six skills in the Academy, if you apply the basic training again, nothing stacks, so you get 4 years where you don't get a skill.
It's not like basic training actually lasts 4 years. It's like 10 weeks in the Navy and then off to A school, for example. This doubly up issue is resolved if you graduate by giving you 3 skills of your choice from the basic list at 1. Obviously, they didn't graduate so they shouldn't get that. But letting them roll on the service skills for a +1 to skill doesn't seem unduly generous. They are getting 1 skill instead of 3 and they aren't getting to choose like you would if they had made the roll to graduate.
It's not like basic training actually lasts 4 years. It's like 10 weeks in the Navy and then off to A school, for example. This doubly up issue is resolved if you graduate by giving you 3 skills of your choice from the basic list at 1. Obviously, they didn't graduate so they shouldn't get that. But letting them roll on the service skills for a +1 to skill doesn't seem unduly generous. They are getting 1 skill instead of 3 and they aren't getting to choose like you would if they had made the roll to graduate.
