barbarians

[AZZA]

I was reading the description of the Nordheimer, more specificaaly the about their fighting style revolving around wearing heavy armour and hoping to outlast one's opponent, striking heavier blows than him and trusting to natural fortitude and strength, rather thatn dodging his attacks (the first bullet point) and it occured to me that the barbarian class features, the nordheimirs favoured class, doent reflect this at all.

I don't think the soldier class fits perfectly for them so would suggest a few poosible alterations to the standard barbarian.

Make REF a secondary save instead of primary and give the barbarian heavy armour proficiency
Instead of mobility give the character Fighting madness. if they already have fighting madness allow them to use it a second time per day.
Imroved mobility can be replaced with greater fighting madness much like greater crimson mist.
Instead of Greater Mobility increase the ST bonus to +8 and allow the character to use it an extra time per day.
Change the dodge and Parry progression to the same as the nomad giving the character better parry values but not as good as a soldier.

this I think would reflect the Nordheimer barabarian better as I believe the current barbarian has been modelled, and rightly so!!, on Conan.

Any comments/suggestions?

 

[DrSkull]

In truth, the Nordheimer barbarians suck on toast. They have to lose Dexterity as part of their racial make up, but Dexterity is key for a Barbarian. I think it would just be simpler to change the favored class for Nordheimers to Soldier instead of barbarian.

In fact, it is worth it to just play a soldier as a Nordheimer, and skip the bonus feat for favored class rather than go with barbarian. A soldier can afford to let his Dex drop, and the CON is really nice.

 

[Anonymous]

Your probably right. I jsut don't see the Nordheimers being that organised that they would be soldiers, what with their small tribal style villages and concentration on valour and individual reknown.
Aaron

 

[Yuan-Ti]

This was the first thing to bother me about the rules (probably because it was the first thing I noticed, reading the races). The Barbarian is based on a Cimmerian and therefore does not well model the Pict, Nordheimer, or black kingdom barbarians.

I think this would have been less of a problem if they had restricted the classes to 10 levels, forcing everyone to multiclass. But I think Soldier, as written, does not fit the Nordheimers either. A mix of Barbarian and Soldier almost fits them better... but as noted here, Soldier is not the right flavor, and the loss of dex makes them crappy Barbarians as written.

One of my players was 100% in favor of playing a Nordheimer until he realized these things. He ended up playing a Zingaran Soldier.

sad.

 

[Yokiboy]

I was reading the description of the Nordheimer, more specificaaly the about their fighting style revolving around wearing heavy armour and hoping to outlast one's opponent, striking heavier blows than him and trusting to natural fortitude and strength, rather thatn dodging his attacks (the first bullet point) and it occured to me that the barbarian class features, the nordheimirs favoured class, doent reflect this at all.

Hi Azza, I like your suggestions. Since I'm already on a kick as relates to alternative classes for Conan, I will tackle the Nordheimer Ravager next.

TTFN,

Yokiboy

 

[Lane Shutt]

I have to disagree with the assessment that Nordheimer Barbarians suck.

All it takes is one feat, heavy armor proficiency, and they can pile on the armor stopping most blows that connect. Meanwhile they can use (AFAIK) all but one (high level) class feature. The only skills that suffer from the lower Dex are Hide, Move Silent and Ride, and then only at -1 from the generated stat bonus. Sure your dodge and parry bonus suffer but then again barbarians have great dodge bonuses. If parrying, hiding and sneaking are most important then you were probably driven from your homeland for being a sissy boy.

It's all how you play the character and views on how class features manifest themselves. Uncanny dodge could be better perception of the combat environment rather than reacting at the last second. Mobility is your powerful presence, you never appear to be vulnerable, always a threat. Let Pict barbarian prance about in combat. I'm barging in with a purpose, to kill, a wave of my sword or a stern glance is enough warning to keep them away.

 

[S'mon]

Barbarians of any sort need to compromise between Strength & Dexterity, they're neither a pure-DEX class like thieves nor a pure-STR class like Soldiers; and if they get the balance wrong they'll suffer. Since the Barbarian class is very powerful at higher levels, I think this is a good balancing factor - eg most Barbs will go for STR over DEX, yet their best defense is via DEX. If they could be as STR focused as a Soldier without penalty they would definitely outclass Soldiers by a wide margin IMO.

 

[Orkin]

They don't appear to have been modeled on historical Norse vikings, since only high-ranking vikings would afford mail byrnies.

 

[InsomNY]

They don't appear to have been modeled on historical Norse vikings, since only high-ranking vikings would afford mail byrnies.

Maybe, maybe not. It was less a question of rank and more of wealth, as far as I know. The typical Viking might not have a sword either, but an axe and spear. As to armor, a coat-of-plates such as was found at the Sutton Hoo site may have been more common, as such an armor was both cheaper and easier to craft.

I don't know why I posted this, exactly; I just felt like speaking up and sounding as if I knew something. :roll:

 

[Anonymous]

They don't appear to have been modeled on historical Norse vikings, since only high-ranking vikings would afford mail byrnies.

They're not - they're modelled on the Aesir and Vanir from Robert E Howard's Conan stories. Real vikings didn't wear horned helmets either,but it doesn't stop these guys.

 

[Ravager_of_Worlds]

Hi Azza, I like your suggestions. Since I'm already on a kick as relates to alternative classes for Conan, I will tackle the Nordheimer Ravager next. originally by Yoki-Boy

Yah vell, mah Nordheimer barbarian is already a tank at 2nd level. With a +5 Con, he heals much more quickly (and has 30 hit points to boot). He also has a large shield, leather tunic and tin hat (or, I mean, horned helmet). As a typical example of how a Nordheimer barbarian might act, Thoren's tactics include charges and Power Attack. Each level, Thoren gains anywhere from 7-16 hit points (also has Toughness). Eventually he may merge with Soldier to reflect his mercenary attitudes and possibly Thief (as a raider).

I was more than happy to lose Dexterity and instead use my shield for parrying anything that comes at me. Add a War Sword (Nordheimer's get this as a martial instead of exotic), and I've got one kick butt Nordheimer barbarian. Who needs heavy amour? Not at 2nd level. I don't want a -9 armour penalty to Climb, Jump and Swim, not yet anyway.

Granted, if you pick a nordheimer or a black kingdom barbarian, you have to pick feats that complement your background (like Toughness and Power attack for a Nordheimer), but this is just being a good player and constructing a believable character using the rules provided.

 

[Yuan-Ti]

After reevaluating since this discussion first took place, I have to say I mostly agree with Ravager. There is not that much which can be changed which would make Barbarian a better fit for Nordheimer or Black Kingdom characters.