Automated Ships

[DivineWrath]

I made a rough draft for a new ship that uses both automation and external mounts. It is a 2500 ton vessel that can carry 2500 tons in external cargo mounts. When it is not carrying external cargo mounts it is capable of thrust 6 and has fuel for 2x J-3 jumps, but when carrying 2500 tons in external cargo mounts it can get thrust 3 and 1x J-3 jump.

It has staterooms for 2 people and a small bridge, just in case someone isn't comfortable with total automation. Internally, it has cargo space for 155 tons, 100 of which is covered by multi-environmental space. Right now, its looking to be about 1100 MCr in price.

Do we allow automated jumping?

I think it would be possible. Autopilot is possible if you add intellect and expert (pilot) software. You can also automate engineering with intellect and expert software. Other ship software allows for the automation of weapons and self repair.

You need skills in Astrogation and Engineer (J-Drive) to jump, which could be covered by expert software. If you question the competence of the software, you could always insist that they take extra time to do their jobs to get bonuses. However, both are easy tasks (unless you are jumping very far) so there shouldn't be too much trouble.

 

[EldritchFire]

Do we allow automated jumping?

There's no reason to assume you can't. Even with virtual crew/0 taking longer gives a +2 to the the difficulty 4 roll. Even with an average roll (7) you're looking at being able to plot a jump-5.

 

[legozhodani]

I can imagine the Hiver have large cargo ships zipping about within the Federation with only a single crew member and the whole thing being automated.

 

[Reynard]

DW, you are right about the cargo mounts. Sounds like insulation from cold and vacuum is a freebie.

ECMs have some advantages but they can't use Streamlined or Dispersed hulls and suck at landing planetside. Just means whatever the next cheapest hull is and might have to be serviced at Highports as long as there's no ban on automated ships. Places featuring automated cargo routes probably also favor all robotic cargo handling at their ports. I picture starports where passengers are the only living things.

Legzhodani, why would the Hivers not implicitly trust their robots and automated systems? They make the best systems in known space.

I sometimes wonder if those Highports around worlds with low population and/or technology worlds in 3I might be justified as using Imperial automation to supplement or enhance the necessary personnel and level of sophistication.

 

[legozhodani]

I imagine the crew member on the Hiver ships is not vital, but a product of the Hiver psychology. They would like to have a crew member to 'shake hands' with on arrival to certain destinations. Along with curiosity of the Hivers to roam and see the stars. The crew member may well change on a regular basis. The position would be seen more as a roving diplomat as much as crew.
If they left it all to total automation they would start to isolate communities, which would start to cause diversification in culture and language. A big no no amongst Hivers.
Well that's how I see it working anyway.

 

[Reynard]

That's an interesting cultural aspect to Hiver space travel.

 

[Sigtrygg]

I think you need to research CT sources on what 'shaking hands' means to a hiver.

It is how they reproduce but not something they give two hoots about, and there is absolutely no hint in extant sources that hivers would seek to 'shake hands' with other species.

Hivers see robots and AI much like they see other federation races - as children to be parented and as tools to be manipulated :twisted:

The hivers have fully automated AI gunships/gravtanks - the are called bruisers.

Warbots: Hivers do not like close combat, and their excellent warbots have relieved
them from this unpleasant duty. Some Hiver armies have consist entirely of warbots.
with no living members. Hiver warbots are of such quality that their import
Into the Imperium Is illegal.

I'm pretty sure it is mentioned that hivers also deploy fully automated naval vessels, that may be in TNE sources. It stands to reason they will definitely use drone subcraft - from fighters to battleriders.

 

[legozhodani]

I'm well aware of what 'shake hands' means, hence the way it was presented. I am assuming these auto mated ships are used in the interior of the Federation, where meeting Hiver colonies and keeping contact is part of the culture.

 

[Condottiere]

Depending on the computer interface, they could have augmented virtual reality relations.

 

[Reynard]

Virtual sex?

 

[Condottiere]

Hands' off, rather than a hand off.

 

[legozhodani]

Hivers strive to keep actual contact of groups through physical means. Also the continuous 'hand shakes' is vital to keep the genes flowing amongst all the planets. It seems to be fundamental to the Hiver 'plan'. Virtual doesn't fit the bill. They like to meet, gossip, shake hands and keep the race ticking over. I can see how automated ships with 'passengers' maybe the norm' for many Hivers. The ship on the whole runs itself, the 'passengers' may have a qualified tech and crewman amongst their throng but they are backup only. They will be busy doing what ever that particular club/group does. One group will get to destination and all disembark, next team of passengers take over the ship, with their 2 back up tech crew amongst the club.
I'm not sure what th level of 'piratical' attacks in the heartland would be like, but I'm guessing low to nonexistant. On the borders there will be all sorts, which would mean auto -fighters and possibly cold watch mariens and robot defence. Nasty to deal with for attackers I should think. I can see a tiny Hiver crew able to control a strong automated defence grid of some variety. Auto turrets, defence drones and antiboarding droids with maybe 3 living crew.
Time to sneak of and grab the book and see what I can build.

 

[DivineWrath]

I have a few questions right now.

How exactly is external cargo mounts used? The book does mention that ships that use it have trouble with worlds that don't have a fleet of shuttles or a high port. Can a starport physically remove the external mounts? Can a starport take the cargo mounts inside and open the contents there? If no starport is available, then do the contents get exposed to space when using ships to access the mounts? I'm thinking they are very large cargo crates at this point.

One of the things I considered doing was adding a shuttle to this ship. Give the ship some basic crew and a smallcraft ship so they could do deliveries to any planet regardless of local starports. Unfortunately, the ship has capacity of 2500 tons of external cargo, but the shuttle has room for about 72 tons of cargo. How long would it take to trade cargo?

Do ships have to be built to handle external cargo mounts? Could I take any standard hull ship, lets say an express boat, and add cargo mounts to it on a whim?

 

[Condottiere]

You can use the default one tonne docking clamp, goods stuffed in thirty tonne modules, three heavy grappling arms, and one modular cutter.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

How exactly is external cargo mounts used?

External Cargo Mount
Instead of carrying cargo inside the hull, a ship may be designed to mount cargo in an external rack or framework.

I see external cargo mounts as about as complex as a basic bookshelf. You weld some standardised scaffolding to the hull and lash the cargo to it. The cargo would probably be containerised and exposed to space.

One of the things I considered doing was adding a shuttle to this ship. Give the ship some basic crew and a smallcraft ship so they could do deliveries to any planet regardless of local starports. Unfortunately, the ship has capacity of 2500 tons of external cargo, but the shuttle has room for about 72 tons of cargo. How long would it take to trade cargo?

1 TEU ≈ 2,7 dT. 72 dT would be ~27 containers. Each container can mass 5 - 50 tonnes.

A single trip with the shuttle would be:
1. Unlash and grab 27 containers. (You would need grappling and loading equipment. 0,5 h? )
2. Travel to surface. (0,5 h - 1 h)
3. Unload 27 containers. (0,5 h ??)
4. Load 27 new containers. (0,5 h ??)
5. Travel to orbit. (0,5 h - 1 h)
6. Release and lash 27 containers. (0,5 h ??)
Total time: 4 - 6 h ?

You need to take 2500 / 72 ≈ 35 trips, that would take 35 × 4 ≈ 140 h, so about 6 - 9 days with triple shifts working around the clock.

Hopefully the highports at better starports could handle this for you... You can often hire additional orbital shuttles.

Do ships have to be built to handle external cargo mounts? Could I take any standard hull ship, lets say an express boat, and add cargo mounts to it on a whim?

At a guess, yes. Just weld the framework to the hull.

 

[Reynard]

I've assumed highports reach sophistication to regularly have the facilities for various methods of cargo transfer from external cargo mounts to internal detectible modules to transfers from standard internal cargo holds. Microgravity helps tremendously. Can't remember which one at the moment but one of the Traveller books has a cargo transfer space craft. Grappling arms could pluck ECMs from docked vessels.

Downport only facilities would need to supply interface craft to fetch pods from ECMs or the ship itself carries one for areas unable to afford one.

 

[AndrewW]

Can't remember which one at the moment but one of the Traveller books has a cargo transfer space craft. Grappling arms could pluck ECMs from docked vessels.

There's the Utility Pod in Supplement 10: Merchants and Cruisers.

 

[Reynard]

That's the one! I can see larger versions for larger module configurations.

 

[DivineWrath]

A single trip with the shuttle would be:
1. Unlash and grab 27 containers. (You would need grappling and loading equipment. 0,5 h? )
2. Travel to surface. (0,5 h - 1 h)
3. Unload 27 containers. (0,5 h ??)
4. Load 27 new containers. (0,5 h ??)
5. Travel to orbit. (0,5 h - 1 h)
6. Release and lash 27 containers. (0,5 h ??)
Total time: 4 - 6 h ?

You need to take 2500 / 72 ≈ 35 trips, that would take 35 × 4 ≈ 140 h, so about 6 - 9 days with triple shifts working around the clock.

Hopefully the highports at better starports could handle this for you... You can often hire additional orbital shuttles.

I was worried it might be something like that. Thanks for the second opinion.

I also need to fuel the ship. Maybe add fuel bladders on the shuttle... 2 - 3 h per run maybe? 1500 tons of fuel / 70 = 21.4 . 22 x 2 h = 44, so 2 - 3 days.

I'm probably going to only want to do business with worlds with good starports. Its going to take close to 2 weeks to unload, reload, and refuel the ship if I have to do it all by myself. Then again, 2500 tons of cargo is far beyond the capacity of small transports. I can transport more cargo in one trip then many ships could do in year.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

The easy solution is to carry more shuttles. If you carry them in grappling hooks on the outside, they cost very little space, just slightly bigger drives & fuel.