Armageddon for the Dilgar
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thePirv said:
You said you already know the rules. Ergo no need for you to buy the book really.
Not to mention single EA/Centauri/whatever player in your group and problem solved. When I played 40k it wasn't like everybody bought every expansion book. Somebody bought it and others could just as easily use it as well.
It has been pointed out in this thread other races as well without Armageddon level ship...
It's just not appropriate for certain races to have ships that are supposed to be 2x as good as Sharlins or similar vessels.
OK let me try it this way.
Projected release stuff:
Drakh, followed closely by ARmageddon. Releasing anything for Drakh in Arma, just means holding it back. Do you ont thta, ofc not, people want theyre stuff right now.
Unfortunately the book was delayed greatly, putting in stuff for the Drakh? A possibility, but only with delaying the book further? Uhm dunno abou that.
Plus whats the problem of getting tidbits of a new book via S&P, that way everyone else has to buy a book for new ships. (Rules are only a page or two anyway), you get yours for free?
Getting new ships inst always better. Current opinion is that there is one useful arma lvl ship out right now, thats it....oops.
Plus would you shell out the money for a Dilgar ship, that has been sculpted like the current arma stuff? No prolly then youd be whining about the crap sculpt. Yes i know Drakh dont look better, but in the show they looked as bad, so nothing to change there.
And basically raiders could whine alot more than you guys. The fleet has been out for ages, yet the base raiders fleet is sorely lacking in about everything. Strike Carrier? Uhhh no. Battlewagon? Good stuff, but no raidertype ship actually.
Projected release stuff:
Drakh, followed closely by ARmageddon. Releasing anything for Drakh in Arma, just means holding it back. Do you ont thta, ofc not, people want theyre stuff right now.
Unfortunately the book was delayed greatly, putting in stuff for the Drakh? A possibility, but only with delaying the book further? Uhm dunno abou that.
Plus whats the problem of getting tidbits of a new book via S&P, that way everyone else has to buy a book for new ships. (Rules are only a page or two anyway), you get yours for free?
Getting new ships inst always better. Current opinion is that there is one useful arma lvl ship out right now, thats it....oops.
Plus would you shell out the money for a Dilgar ship, that has been sculpted like the current arma stuff? No prolly then youd be whining about the crap sculpt. Yes i know Drakh dont look better, but in the show they looked as bad, so nothing to change there.
And basically raiders could whine alot more than you guys. The fleet has been out for ages, yet the base raiders fleet is sorely lacking in about everything. Strike Carrier? Uhhh no. Battlewagon? Good stuff, but no raidertype ship actually.
Ah, ok. So it is just the Drakh and Dilgar who got left out. I'm sure Raiders players would still like to be able to field an Arma level ship, but at least they got a look in.
I was wrong and apologise for grouping raiders into those who didn't get anything from the book, but the basic point of exclusion still stands.
I was wrong and apologise for grouping raiders into those who didn't get anything from the book, but the basic point of exclusion still stands.
TenaciousB
Mongoose
Tank said:
Maybe they boarded it and stole it :lol:
Introduce that as a new rule - booty ships! Ships boarded and captured can be used by the capturing fleet!
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Like the man said, not every race gets a ship at the top level. Just like not every race had a ship at any given level in SFoS. From what I've seen, the Dilgar have a pretty decent fleet list, nice special rules and models that are pretty decent.
ACtA seems to be moving "forward" in time, expanding into the 2260s, 70s and 80s. The Dilgar are an extinct race so there's very little scope to expand them at the same rate as the others. What-if scenarios and alternative timelines can only go so far. Maybe they should have had more content in Armageddon than they did, but that's done and dusted now. You've voiced your opinion. Indeed, you've belaboured the point heavily. It's up to the guys at Mongoose to take what you've said and work it into their release lists and plans for next year now. The rest of us, agree or disagree, are completely powerless to do anything about it.
ACtA seems to be moving "forward" in time, expanding into the 2260s, 70s and 80s. The Dilgar are an extinct race so there's very little scope to expand them at the same rate as the others. What-if scenarios and alternative timelines can only go so far. Maybe they should have had more content in Armageddon than they did, but that's done and dusted now. You've voiced your opinion. Indeed, you've belaboured the point heavily. It's up to the guys at Mongoose to take what you've said and work it into their release lists and plans for next year now. The rest of us, agree or disagree, are completely powerless to do anything about it.
Game balance. No, raiders never had many ships in the series, but most of the ships in ACTA were never in the series. I certainly never saw a Bin'Tak in the show.
And before anyone says "Bin'Tak was an AoG release, and JMS considered AoG stuff to be prety much cannon" THIS AINT AoG! This is a totally different company, with wildly different rules. So it doesn't matter if Raiders getting an Arma level ship isn't cannon. It doesn't even have to be a ship. Perhaps t could be a Raider manufacturing base. Just something of the level.
I simply feel that introducing a totally new Priority level should allow for ALL fleets in the game to have something at this level.
No, shadows don't have anything at some priority levels, but perhaps they should. But that's not the issue i'm trying to deal with here. I'm simply saying that the company are not supporting the new content they're putting out, and that this is a mistake and is quite clearly angering some members of the community. Granted, even some people who got an Arma level ship for their race are complaining, but how much worse would it have been if the Minbari Neroon hadn't been included. Minbari players would have been up in arms and the problem probably would have been sorted already.
And Lord David, just because you seem to have missed it when i previously posted it...
And before anyone says "Bin'Tak was an AoG release, and JMS considered AoG stuff to be prety much cannon" THIS AINT AoG! This is a totally different company, with wildly different rules. So it doesn't matter if Raiders getting an Arma level ship isn't cannon. It doesn't even have to be a ship. Perhaps t could be a Raider manufacturing base. Just something of the level.
I simply feel that introducing a totally new Priority level should allow for ALL fleets in the game to have something at this level.
No, shadows don't have anything at some priority levels, but perhaps they should. But that's not the issue i'm trying to deal with here. I'm simply saying that the company are not supporting the new content they're putting out, and that this is a mistake and is quite clearly angering some members of the community. Granted, even some people who got an Arma level ship for their race are complaining, but how much worse would it have been if the Minbari Neroon hadn't been included. Minbari players would have been up in arms and the problem probably would have been sorted already.
And Lord David, just because you seem to have missed it when i previously posted it...
thePirv said:
Uhhh right...
Raiders with a Armageddon lvl ship.
How do you lug that thing around without being seen, and being on the run half of the time. YOU dont!
Raiders should have fast, cheap fleets, that rely on fighters and little patrol lvl ships, with some armed freighters thrown in for loot.
Raiders dont have the money to sped on big useless things that dont make freighter looting any better. IF at all they spend it on wenches and alcohol, or some other amusement.
Raiders with a Armageddon lvl ship.
How do you lug that thing around without being seen, and being on the run half of the time. YOU dont!
Raiders should have fast, cheap fleets, that rely on fighters and little patrol lvl ships, with some armed freighters thrown in for loot.
Raiders dont have the money to sped on big useless things that dont make freighter looting any better. IF at all they spend it on wenches and alcohol, or some other amusement.
WickedE
Mongoose
Raider #1: "WOOHOO! We have the BIGGEST Armageddon Ship in the GALAXY! We welded TWO Nova's, ONE Omega,ONE Hyperion, and a BATTLEWAGON together! I call it, "FrankenWagon!"
Raider #2: "...That's nice and all, but there's just one problem. We don't have enough crew to man it....so....No. Scrap it."
Raider #1: "AWWW C'MON! I spent SIX MONTHS welding these things together!!!"
Raider #2: "...That's nice and all, but there's just one problem. We don't have enough crew to man it....so....No. Scrap it."
Raider #1: "AWWW C'MON! I spent SIX MONTHS welding these things together!!!"
thePirv said:
There's no point that would support armageddon level raider.
Also it would also dull the fleets by making each fleet more of same. Character of fleet is not only what it can have or can do as it's what it can't have or can't do. As long as fleets are balanced that's no problem. And armageddon level ships aren't required to win(now THAT would be stupid game design...)
Even when it's a) totally inappropriate b) not required to be able to compete with others?
)thePirv said:
Ship yard. Right. As if one could then be competive against other armageddon ships. Or even war ships. Or battle level for that matter...
Let's see. Babylon 5 isn't equilavent of armageddon level ship(heck single Sharlin could probably beat crap out of B5). Raiders can't reasonably speaking posses anything near of space station that would be vastly superior to EA base with state of the art weapons(since refit in season 2).
Raider base would be more of skirmish level choise at best.
WickedE said:
WOOT!!!!!! yoy got it right down ^^.
Again, raiders do be raiding forces. No need for fraggin ships that could lay a smackdown against B5.
Raiders be hunting Freighters, that be underarmed, slower than mud vessels. Anything more than a skirmish class vessel be mighty overarmed.
One could be understanding raid vessels, for base defense and very successful raiders. ANd maybe cracking full freighter convoys, but that be it.
Raiders be raiders, not mercenaries.
(Oh and i need to get some of the more peculiar Wheel of time dialects out of my head. THough it is fun using them ^^)
Not necessarily. Make it a Raid or battle level ship, give it a load of Delta V's or half that amount of Double V's, give it a decent Carrier score and give it an improved Fleet Carrier rule, enough so as to make it Arma worthy. Sounds pretty simple to me.
Doesn't have to be broken, and sine we're moving into the Crusade Era, what's to stop the Raiders having managed to get their hands on some of the upgraded tech or to have pulled their resources into a unified Galactic Piracy syndicate. The Abbai and Brakiri joined forces to create the Brivoki, why couldn't all the smaller raider factions unite?
And since all the races are now getting shared technology, it stands t reason that the raider would need to change things up a bit to be able to prey on freighters, since White Stars now patrol almost everywhere and majority of races now have the kinds of tech necessary to bitch slap raider vessels.
Doesn't have to be broken, and sine we're moving into the Crusade Era, what's to stop the Raiders having managed to get their hands on some of the upgraded tech or to have pulled their resources into a unified Galactic Piracy syndicate. The Abbai and Brakiri joined forces to create the Brivoki, why couldn't all the smaller raider factions unite?
And since all the races are now getting shared technology, it stands t reason that the raider would need to change things up a bit to be able to prey on freighters, since White Stars now patrol almost everywhere and majority of races now have the kinds of tech necessary to bitch slap raider vessels.
Again
what kind of freighter are you hunting??
That ship could take one 5 freighter convoys at the same time, but youll never find those anywhere.
No just no. Im all for the not 100% realistic approach, we do play a SF game after all. But thats just plain crazy.
IMHO the raider fleet list needs an overhaul. There isnt a single ship in there, that actually makes sense. The raider ships are slower than hell, aka slower than most. Not a good if you specialize in running from serious opposition.
what kind of freighter are you hunting??
That ship could take one 5 freighter convoys at the same time, but youll never find those anywhere.
No just no. Im all for the not 100% realistic approach, we do play a SF game after all. But thats just plain crazy.
IMHO the raider fleet list needs an overhaul. There isnt a single ship in there, that actually makes sense. The raider ships are slower than hell, aka slower than most. Not a good if you specialize in running from serious opposition.
thePirv said:
Wouldn't be equilavent of 2 sharlins, 2 octurions or anywhere near anyway.
Did you see raiders running around with omegas, novas and whatnot in the serie? No. Because raiders can't get their hands on high-tech military equipment just like that. Now that EA is moving toward high-tech ships raiders HAVE benefitted from it already. They got frigging nova for them! That's already more firepower than your even tad more succesfull than average raider could ever dream of having!
Nova is already pushing boundaries of belief for raider tech. Anything better than that would be just ridiculous. Good game requires some sense of belief in it as well. Raiders running around with armageddon level stuff would be totally nuts.
TenaciousB
Mongoose
tneva82 said:
Is this the way the community reacts to everyone's ideas - to just say "nah, that's crap" and move on?
People are trying to be constructive, and I think that its important to remember that this is a GAME - it's not a TV SHOW. It may be a game based on a TV show, but the two are very different, so by saying something as inane as "Sheridan wouldn't put that weapon on that White Star" (just as an example), its fairly pointless.
As I said - It's a game, for people's enjoyment. Some people aren't enjoying what's happening to their races.
*editied for typos - there was a lot of em :wink:
Yes being constructive is nice.
But some ideas are less useful than others.
And a Shipyard as a warship.....uhh no.
And some ppl are just disgruntled that they got nothing.....
Uhh right. My Narn effectlively got one ship, cause the Armageddon one is pretty useless, and i will have to build the G'Vrahn myself if i am to be happy with it.
Same goes for the Centauri with the Adira.
Ill be building Crusade era EA, but that with Preludes ship as a centerpiece not the new MGP stuff.
Dilgar fleetbook has been lying around for a while, im considering a fleet, only thing that is putting me off is the huge disparance of effectiveness of the ships in ACTA and at what lvl tehy should be with canon movies and B5Wars to go from.....
But some ideas are less useful than others.
And a Shipyard as a warship.....uhh no.
And some ppl are just disgruntled that they got nothing.....
Uhh right. My Narn effectlively got one ship, cause the Armageddon one is pretty useless, and i will have to build the G'Vrahn myself if i am to be happy with it.
Same goes for the Centauri with the Adira.
Ill be building Crusade era EA, but that with Preludes ship as a centerpiece not the new MGP stuff.
Dilgar fleetbook has been lying around for a while, im considering a fleet, only thing that is putting me off is the huge disparance of effectiveness of the ships in ACTA and at what lvl tehy should be with canon movies and B5Wars to go from.....
