Any of you have modified the rules?

Yes of course, I'd only nerf those two-handers that have been increased by two steps. Sure, post your stuff and let's compare notes.

In SRD, a Bastard sword (d10) with an off-hand Short sword (d6) makes a greater gross damage than a Greatsword (2d6). In Conan, a d12 Warsword with a d8 Short sword looks equal to a 2d10 Greatsword, BUT the Damage Reduction system favours a single powerful damage source over two less powerful ones, so Greatsword is clearly superior.

The easiest solution would probably be the following, comparing with the SRD:

- Bardiche is closest to the Greataxe (d12), so we move d12 one step up and get 2d8.
- Bill is derived from Halberd (d10) so it should be either d12 or 2d6
- Greatsword may move from 2d6 to 2d8, but see below
- Tulwar is a revamped Falchion, so moving from 2d4 to 2d6 at 18-20 threat range should be fine.

The latter two are a bit tricky though: Conan classifies them as Exotic, and Exotic weapons should be better than comparable martial weapons in one way or other. However, thanks to Weapon Familiarity by race, and also Versatility, I guess hardly anyone ever expends a feat for these weapons so I don't consider them _truly_ exotic.

---

The other option would be to leave these weapons as they are, and bump either some or most other weapons up another step. Here I'd place a priority on swords. This would also be an opportunity to create a greater diversity between Broadsword, Arming Sword and Cutlass.
In short, this solution would be either more complicated (if you completely redo the balance) or simply more paperwork (if you move everything up one step), and of course more lethal (shortsword with d10... ouch).
 
Clovenhoof said:
In SRD, a Bastard sword (d10) with an off-hand Short sword (d6) makes a greater gross damage than a Greatsword (2d6). In Conan, a d12 Warsword with a d8 Short sword looks equal to a 2d10 Greatsword, BUT the Damage Reduction system favours a single powerful damage source over two less powerful ones, so Greatsword is clearly superior.
I totally agree with you.
- Bardiche is closest to the Greataxe (d12), so we move d12 one step up and get 2d8.
Also 2d8.
- Bill is derived from Halberd (d10) so it should be either d12 or 2d6
I choose 2D6.
- Greatsword may move from 2d6 to 2d8, but see below
2D8 for me.
- Tulwar is a revamped Falchion, so moving from 2d4 to 2d6 at 18-20 threat range should be fine.
The same for me.

The latter two are a bit tricky though: Conan classifies them as Exotic, and Exotic weapons should be better than comparable martial weapons in one way or other. However, thanks to Weapon Familiarity by race, and also Versatility, I guess hardly anyone ever expends a feat for these weapons so I don't consider them _truly_ exotic.
Exactly, mein freund ! I also nerfed down the Pollaxe to 1d10: with an Armour Penetration of 8, it's still an interesting weapon agaisnt heavy-armoured foes. And if you own Road of Kings, the Talwar (Vendhyan Exotic Weapon) should be lowered from 2D8 to 2D6.


The other option would be to leave these weapons as they are, and bump either some or most other weapons up another step. Here I'd place a priority on swords. This would also be an opportunity to create a greater diversity between Broadsword, Arming Sword and Cutlass.
In short, this solution would be either more complicated (if you completely redo the balance) or simply more paperwork (if you move everything up one step), and of course more lethal (shortsword with d10... ouch).
I choose the "lazy" way. Nerf down 6 weapon damages is easy.
 
I changed a bunch of rules... all of them infact.. :D

I use the Runequest ruleset heavily influenced by Conan. I hate the D20 system... blech!

But the support books are great

-V
 
Axerules: thanks, I think I'll adopt these changes as written now. =)

By the way, I once saw a very simple and effective system for balancing D20 weapons by points. Since it was devised for D&D 3E or something, it doesn't include AP, but that's not much a problem.

Let me see if I can come up with an equivalent for Conan

start with d4, 20/x2 crit multiplier. that's 0 points.

- each step up of the damage die costs 1 point
- each increase of the threat range costs 1 point
- each incread of the crit multiplier costs 1 point
- Two-handed weapon costs 0 points
- One-handed weapon costs 1 point
- Light weapon costs 2 points
- Reach weapon that can attack adjacent squares: 2 points

- assign AP, hardness and HP as it fits

Simple weapons: 4 points
Martial weapons: 5 points
Exotic weapons: 6 points

Example: Broadsword,
One-handed: 1 point
damage 1d10: 3 steps up from d3: 3 points
threat range 19-20: 1 point
multiplier x2: 0 pts

Total: 5 points

I have noticed that many Simple Weapons only use up 3 points, but some (like Heavy Mace) use 4.
Most other weapons exactly match the point value I've come up with, except for those that Axerules and I have identified as overpowered. The Bardiche even uses up a whopping 7 points and thus is WAY out of balance to the other weapons.

The system could be refined further, but I don't think it's necessary, as all it needs to do is to give you an idea what a weapon should do and what not. It can also be used to design your own weapons if you feel the need for that.
 
Clovenhoof said:
Axerules: thanks, I think I'll adopt these changes as written now. =)
Hello Clovenhoof, you're welcome. Very interesting system, where did you find it ? Is it something more or less official in a D&D book ?
 
It's nothing official. I _think_ someone posted something along those lines to some forum years ago, or maybe it was on some inofficial website, I really do not recall.
I just remembered the general idea and used that as a basis for a Conan-compatible system.

BTW, I just made the changes to my equipment tables. ;) I also followed your example of lowering Pollaxe to d10, it's still very good with such an AP score.
 
Here's an example for a new weapon created with the aforementioned balancing system. It's supposed to be something like an improved staff.
As you know, the normal Staff is a simple weapon, does 2d4 x2 bludgeoning damage, is a Reach weapon, but can also attack adjacent squares.
Wouldn't it be nice to have a weapon like that to pack more of a punch?

Well, here are a few suggestions to do that.
First off, according to my weapon system, the Staff has 4 points: 2 for the damage die, 2 for the special ability, and no other frills.
So, an equivalent martial weapon gives us another point to spend, so we could step up the damage by one point:

War Staff
two-handed, d10 x2, AP1, Bludgeoning, Martial

we could define this weapon, for example, as a staff whose ends are shod with strong iron caps, to increase weight and, therefore, damage by force. It would be a martial weapon because it would require some extra training to efficiently use that weapon due to the added weight and force.

If the weapon were supposed to be Exotic, we'd have another point to spare. So we could for example improve the threat range or crit multiplier.
An "exotic staff" doing d10 19-20/x2 for example could be defined as a staff with a short slashing blade on each end. This would also be the reason why the weapon is Exotic; it requires a lot of training (or talent) to safely use this weapon without hurting yourself. We can also slightly increase AP.

Two Lilies
two-handed, d10, 19-20/x2, AP2, Exotic

Alternatively, the weapon could have a x3 crit multiplier, which is more typical for massive, curved blades(like axe hedads), or spikes or spearheads. Let's not even go near the "Double-Headed Axe", and instead assume that we have a long staff with a steel spike on either end. The spike may be fixed at a 90° angle like with a pick, or straight like a spear, I'll leave that to your imagination.

Worm Spit
two-handed, d10, x3, AP3, Exotic

So now let's think: are these weapons balanced not only by points but also thinking about the game itself? I'll focus on the War Staff and Two Lilies here, the "Spit" being only an afterthought.
The War Staff has the base damage of a broadsword, but bad crit behaviour, and needs two hands, barring you from using an off-hand weapon or a shield. It offers the unique advantage of threatening and attacking anything within 10ft at decent damage. But the damage is lower than any other two-handed martial weapon [except for Pollaxe in my and Axerule's games). Last not least, the AP value is very low, so it will best be used against unarmoured foes.
IMHO, the weapon is okay - it offers something very rare, but has its drawbacks as well. It is probably especially interesting in combination with Combat Reflexes. Otherwise, I am willing to bet the Bardiche will always be more popular in typical Conan rounds.

Same goes for Two Lilies as opposed to Greatsword.

I'm thinking about introducing these two weapons (War Staff and Two Lilies) to my players. Anyway, they are such rookies at D20 that they probably won't even realize its advantages. ("Staff? Varg no wantink stupid staff.") FYI, the Thief refused to get a short sword, or even a Poniard, and stuck with a dagger instead (not that he didn't complain about the bad damage in his first fight).

Or introduce the Spiked Chain to Conan... ;-)

Anyway, what do you think?
 
I think I will modify the rules by implementing the single/duo pla modifiactions for skill points and feats.

I also like the concept of combining certain skills eg: spot and Search = perception; hide and move silent =stealth.
 
S/D modifications are, iirc, 2 free ranks in every class skill or something? We did that when we started our campaign, simply because I misread the rules (in 1st printing it looks like you always get these freebie points).

Now since I want to re-write all the character sheets anyway, I think I'll cancel these free ranks and instead implement the merged skills recently discussed in the Saga thread.

So Spot&Listen becomes Perception; Hide and Move Silently become Stealth, and so on. Will be better for the players in the long run.
 
Clovenhoof said:
Or introduce the Spiked Chain to Conan... ;-)

Anyway, what do you think?
Interesting new weapons. I adapted some weapons from D&D like the Spiked Chain and a few others, but now I'm gonna use your system to see if they match the values. What I did was mostly comparing how weapons had been changed in the same categories between both games and use common sense. Now I have further work to see if they fit the point values. Damn ! :wink: I'll post my list as soon as possible. Later.
 
@Axerules:
by all means post your custom weapons, but please don't tell me that you adopted those ridiculous D&D Double Weapons into Conan! (Two Bladed Sword my ass.)

(Spiked Chain should be pretty cool, never actually used it in D&D though, and IRL it would be a surefire suicide ticket.)
 
Here are the simple weapons I have adapted from D&D to Conan. I don't know if some of these weapons are already in Tito (I don't own this one, I will never pay for a book with 75% reprinted text).
  • Simple weapons
  • Light
  • Gauntlet (spiked), Finesse weapon, 10 sp, 1D6, X2, AP1, Hard 10, HP 1, 1 ib, Piercing. According to Clovenhoof's system, 3pts
  • Sickle, Finesse, 1 sp, 1D6, X2, AP 1, Hard 8, HP 1, 2 ib, Slashing (3 pts)
  • One-handed
  • Morningstar, 3 sp, 1D10, X2, AP 4, Hard 7, HP 7, 4 ib, Bludgeoning & Piercing. (4 pts)
  • Ranged
  • Light
  • Dart, 2 sp, 1D4, X2, AP 1, Range Increment 20 ft, Hard 2, HP 1, 1/2 ib, Piercing. (2 Pts)
No more Simple Weapons, I'll post Martial and Exotic Weapons later.
 
Martial weapons
  • Light
  • Hammer, light, Finesse, 2 sp, 1D6, X2, AP 1, Range 20 ft, Hard 7, HP 3, 1 ib, Bludgeoning. (3 pts)
  • Sap, Finesse, Deals subdual damage, 1 sp, 1D8, X2, AP 1, Hard 5, HP 2, 2 ib, Bludgeoning. (4 pts)
  • One-handed
  • Flail, light, 5 sp, 1D10, X2, AP 4, Hard 7, HP 5, 4 ib, Bludgeoning. (4pts)
  • Two-handed
  • Flail, heavy, 10 sp, 2D6, 19 X2, AP 4, Hard 7, HP 10, 8 ib, Bludgeoning. (5pts)
  • Scythe, 8 sp, 2d6, X4, AP 5, Hard 7, HP 10, 7 ib, Piercing & Slashing. (6pts)
The Light Flail and the Heavy Flail have a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls when attempting to disarm an enemy (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if you fail to disarm your enemy). You can also use those weapons to make trip attacks. If you're tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the flail to avoid being tripped.
  • I'll post exotic weapons later.
 
Note that high AP scores should come with Piercing damage. Purely bludgeoning weapons can damage armour but don't really penetrate it. You could define the flails as "P&B", however.

Come to think of it, the Conan Warhammer is a quite curious weapon. Its damage is actually one step _lower_ than the D&D counterpart, but it has the benefit of a very high AP score.
 
Clovenhoof said:
Come to think of it, the Conan Warhammer is a quite curious weapon. Its damage is actually one step _lower_ than the D&D counterpart, but it has the benefit of a very high AP score.
That's why I houseruled 1D8 Damage. No weapon should have a LOWER damage in Conan. The same damage like for the dagger, OK. Lower, IMO, no.
 
Yeah I guess I'm gonna spice it up to d8, too. It won't be overpowered, really. After all, most fighter-types will be able to pierce most armours with their chosen weapon anyway.
 
Exotic weapons
  • Light
  • Simple
  • Kama, Finesse, 2 sp, 1D8, X2, AP 1, Hard 5, HP 3, 1 ib, Slashing. (4 pts).
  • Nunchaku, Finesse, 2 sp, 1D8, X2, AP 1, Hard 5, HP 3, 1 ib, Bludgeoning. (4 pts).
  • Siangham, Finesse, 3 sp, 1D8, X2, AP 1, Hard 5, HP 2, 1/2 ib, Piercing. (4 pts)
  • Two handed
  • Spiked Chain, Finesse, Reach, 100 sp, 2D6, X2, AP 3, Hard 10, HP 8, 7 ib, Piercing. (6pts)
Unlike other weapons with Reach it can be used against an adjacent foe. +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls when attempting to disarm an enemy (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if you fail to disarm your enemy). You can also use this weapon to make trip attacks. If you're tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the chain to avoid being tripped.
  • Ranged
  • Martial
  • Shuriken, 1 sp, 1D3, X2, AP 1, Range Increment 10 ft, Hard 8, HP 1, 1/10 ib, Piercing. (2pts)
The Kama, Nunchaku and Siangham are Simple weapons for Khitans and Exotic weapons for other characters. The Shuriken is a Martial weapon for Khitans and Exotic for other characters.
 
I think the Spike Chain is a bit too much as a Martial weapon. This weapon should be Exotic. And the damage probably reduced to d10 (one step higher than 2d4). After all, you can use it at 5ft and 10ft and make trip attacks.
 
Clovenhoof said:
I think the Spike Chain is a bit too much as a Martial weapon. This weapon should be Exotic.
:oops: Edited. A typo. Thanks for correcting me.
And the damage probably reduced to D10 (one step higher than 2d4). After all, you can use it at 5ft and 10ft and make trip attacks.
According to your system, exotic weapons should be worth 6 pts. And I gave this weapon the same damage change as the Tulwar (Falchion 2D4). But if you think it's overpowered even for an exotic weapon, change it.
 
Note that my original system does not consider additional bonuses like Trip. I suppose it would be worth another point, but then you'd also have to rebalance the Bill and what other Trip weapons there might be. Whether you do it or not is up to you.

The spiked chain as such is simply too cool to be left out of the game. ^^ I understand it's been left out of Conan because there's probably no weapon like it ever mentioned in Howard's stories, but then again, I use my own setting, and I think it fits well into the genre. ^^
 
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