Age of Conan Novels

[xulwolf]

While I have a few minutes I would like to rant about the magic in the novels. I hate high magic, both in novels and rpgs. That's my opinion and I won't force it on others. The Anok series were not high magic.

The World of Conan novels and the Conan Roleplaying Game are two separate beings. The books are not based on the rpg. The Anok series magic system, to me, seems loosed almost an Ars Magica feel where a mage can make up a spell on the spot. If that is the case the mage would always have the right spell to get him out of a jam. The marks given to Anok were of great power. Think of Toth Amon's power given to a novice with the limitation being the physical body. Being able to make up a spell on the fly is a lot less cheesy than a spirit of a sage who died 1500 years ago coming to him in a dream and putting a rune on his sword.

 

[VincentDarlage]

The comment is simple. I was replying to a post that read:
"Yes, but Coleman actually had a black Shemite character in the book, re-emphasising that this was not a misunderstanding brought about by miles and cultures, but by an author who failed to do some very basic research. "

To me the writer of the post is saying that since Anok was with a black person, he and the black person should have known that Belit was white. So I was being sarcastic.

York wrote the Anok series. Coleman wrote the Kern series. The Kern series had the black Shemite in it. Anok and Teferi never referenced Belit nor did I claim anything regarding Anok and Teferi's knowledge of Belit's race.

However, Shemites are not a black race, so the black Shemite in Coleman's novel is not an error brought about by miles and cultures as you suggested earlier. It is simply an error on the part of Coleman.

It is not an error York, Anok or Teferi made, since the reference is solely found in Coleman's Kern trilogy.

I still don't understand your comment.

(on a side note, York made a completely different racial error - he confused Darfari cannibal slaves with Zamboulans. York wrote that Zamboulans were cannibal worshippers of Hanuman.)

 

[Buxom Sorceress]

I hate high magic, both in novels and rpgs..
..The Anok series were not high magic..
..Being able to make up a spell on the fly is a lot less cheesy than a spirit of a sage who died 1500 years ago coming to him in a dream and putting a rune on his sword.

anok 3 **** SPOILER ****
******
being able to help someone over a vast distance by these unlimited 'dream magic' powers..
..seeing + talking into their dreams.
..+ helping by fighting alongside them vs their enemies in dreams.
..+ bringing other warriors into the dream to help fight!
now that is the most POWERFUL kind of magic! + teferi can do it all instantly by using his magic staff-club! those are the highest fantasy magic powers! :lol:
+ descended from a bloodline which is TOTALLY IMMUNE FROM ALL MAGIC is very high fantasy stuff too! :shock:
[ i would not have minded these things so much if the plot had been good with integrity + the magic had limitations of use + the main characters had not all been protected by the god-fate silly plot? ]
--
+ Epimetrius the sage will have the last laugh.. he features in a series which is hailed as classic S+S [written by REH, the creator of the genre].
but anok-spell-slinger is just a silly cartoony joke who will only be remembered with the derision such folly deserves.

 

[VincentDarlage]

You know a book has too much magic when it requires a no-magic zone (book II) and a person immune to magic in order to add some suspense to the plot.

 

[Buxom Sorceress]

You know a book has too much magic when it requires a no-magic zone (book II) and a person immune to magic in order to add some suspense to the plot.

yes, more good points. thanks.

+ there is also the very 'convenient' 'no/low magic zone' inside the pyramid in book 3.
i again LOL when silly anok could not sense it when he entered, but he COULD clearly sense it as he left it!? [ oh the follies of a 'triple-cheesy-burger-plot' with extra thick 'sloppy-corn-sauce-topping'..] :lol:

 

[Strom]

Just the fact that Teferi was a 'Zimwi-msaka' and the implication that Anok befriended him because the fates deemed it so and that their relationship justified Anok pursuing the priesthood of Set was just too convenient and came across as more complex then it should of been. If Anok was the magic user why not leave Teferi to be the warrior instead of mudding the waters with yet another magic user who compliments Anok - it just was too much magic! Plus, the fact that Fallon didn't have any magic capability just highlighted her uselessness next too the sorcerers supreme of Anok and Teferi!

 

[JamesMishler]

Being able to make up a spell on the fly is a lot less cheesy than a spirit of a sage who died 1500 years ago coming to him in a dream and putting a rune on his sword.

I believe a lot of people have always missed the point about just who Epimitreus the Sage was...

He *is* Mitra.

Or rather, the god "Mitra" is what 1500 years of reverence by the Hyborians will do, make a man into a god.

When Epimitreus is speaking with Conan, note carefully how he says things:

"Ages ago Set coiled about the world like a python about its prey. All my life, which was as the lives of three common men, I fought him. I drove him into the shadows of the mysterious south, but in dark Stygia men still worship him who is to us the arch-demon. As I fought Set, I fight his worshippers and his votaries and his acolytes."

Think on this... Epimitreus can mean "Source of the name Mitra." Of course, it could also mean "One who is close to Mitra," but that is not the way Epimitreus speaks or acts in the sepulchre. He does not say, "Mitra guided me as I fought Set," it was he who was actually fighting Set directly. And at first not Set's followers, but Set himself, who walked the world back in the day.

And so Epimitreus, like Bori before him, was deified by the Hybroians as Mitra. Thus it was not the spirit of a sage who summoned forth Conan that night, it was Mitra himself...

 

[Yogah of Yag]

Being able to make up a spell on the fly is a lot less cheesy than a spirit of a sage who died 1500 years ago coming to him in a dream and putting a rune on his sword.

I believe a lot of people have always missed the point about just who Epimitreus the Sage was...

He *is* Mitra.

Or rather, the god "Mitra" is what 1500 years of reverence by the Hyborians will do, make a man into a god.

When Epimitreus is speaking with Conan, note carefully how he says things:

"Ages ago Set coiled about the world like a python about its prey. All my life, which was as the lives of three common men, I fought him. I drove him into the shadows of the mysterious south, but in dark Stygia men still worship him who is to us the arch-demon. As I fought Set, I fight his worshippers and his votaries and his acolytes."

Think on this... Epimitreus can mean "Source of the name Mitra." Of course, it could also mean "One who is close to Mitra," but that is not the way Epimitreus speaks or acts in the sepulchre. He does not say, "Mitra guided me as I fought Set," it was he who was actually fighting Set directly. And at first not Set's followers, but Set himself, who walked the world back in the day.

And so Epimitreus, like Bori before him, was deified by the Hybroians as Mitra. Thus it was not the spirit of a sage who summoned forth Conan that night, it was Mitra himself...

Wow. Great stuff, James. Thanks for the insights. 8)

 

[René]

You know a book has too much magic when it requires a no-magic zone (book II)

Wonderful! York seems to have his craft learned yery well. It'd have been better if someone would have him sponsored a writing for beginners course back at high school...

 

[friartuck]

I don't know if this is entirely appropriate for this thread, but I think Conan fans would like R. Scott Bakker's The Prince of Nothing trilogy. There is a barbarian in there called Cnaiur which reminded me, in some ways, of Conan -- though I hasten to add he is not a rip-off. The books are very dark, very gritty. Has anyone here read them?

 

[friartuck]

I should add that I haven't read the new Age of Conan books. I picked up Coleman's Blood of Wolves, but I haven't been able to get very far into it. I think Howard was a far better writer than any of his imitators, and I'm currently gliding with lazy contentment through the new Del Rey collections. Once I've finished, I might give Coleman another try.

 

[xulwolf]

Being able to make up a spell on the fly is a lot less cheesy than a spirit of a sage who died 1500 years ago coming to him in a dream and putting a rune on his sword.

I believe a lot of people have always missed the point about just who Epimitreus the Sage was...

He *is* Mitra.

Or rather, the god "Mitra" is what 1500 years of reverence by the Hyborians will do, make a man into a god.

When Epimitreus is speaking with Conan, note carefully how he says things:

"Ages ago Set coiled about the world like a python about its prey. All my life, which was as the lives of three common men, I fought him. I drove him into the shadows of the mysterious south, but in dark Stygia men still worship him who is to us the arch-demon. As I fought Set, I fight his worshippers and his votaries and his acolytes."

Think on this... Epimitreus can mean "Source of the name Mitra." Of course, it could also mean "One who is close to Mitra," but that is not the way Epimitreus speaks or acts in the sepulchre. He does not say, "Mitra guided me as I fought Set," it was he who was actually fighting Set directly. And at first not Set's followers, but Set himself, who walked the world back in the day.

And so Epimitreus, like Bori before him, was deified by the Hybroians as Mitra. Thus it was not the spirit of a sage who summoned forth Conan that night, it was Mitra himself...

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If what you are saying is true than the story is basically as follows:

Once there was country called Aquilonia where COnan killed the king and took over rulership. In this country only one god could be worshipped - Mitra. When Conan became king he let the people worship anybody they wanted.

One day a group of people decided to kill King Conan. yada, yada, yada, a beast that could not be killed by normal weapons was summoned. Mitra in the form of a spirit of a 1500 year old sage comes and helps the person responsable for letting others religions into a country where he had manatory worship?

Why?

 

[JamesMishler]

And so Epimitreus, like Bori before him, was deified by the Hybroians as Mitra. Thus it was not the spirit of a sage who summoned forth Conan that night, it was Mitra himself...

That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If what you are saying is true than the story is basically as follows:

Once there was country called Aquilonia where COnan killed the king and took over rulership. In this country only one god could be worshipped - Mitra. When Conan became king he let the people worship anybody they wanted.

One day a group of people decided to kill King Conan. yada, yada, yada, a beast that could not be killed by normal weapons was summoned. Mitra in the form of a spirit of a 1500 year old sage comes and helps the person responsable for letting others religions into a country where he had manatory worship?

Why?

The priests of Mitra might believe him to be a jealous god, but that does not really mean that Mitra cares one way or the other whether or not the people actually worship him!

Note also what Epemitreus says to Conan:

"As a pebble cast into a dark lake sends ripples to the furthest shore, happenings in the Unknown World have broken like waves on my slumber. I have marked you well, Conan of Cimmeria, and the stamp of mighty happenings and great deeds is upon you...
... I have felt the foul presence of Set's neophyte. He is drunk with terrible power, and the blows he strikes at his enemy may well bring down the kingdom...
... Your destiny is one with Aquilonia... a blood-mad sorcerer shall not stand in the face of imperial destiny."

Conan, then, whether by blood or as a social purgative, was responsible for the eventual empire built by Aquilonia before the fall of the west to the Picts and Hyrkanians. Remember, the noble Aquilonians before Conan were a scheming, back-stabbing crew, and the peasantry a downtrodden lot. By the time of "Hour of the Dragon" Aquilonian society was already showing growth, though it had hardly been purged completely of its evil.

Without Conan as king, and perhaps without his successors, there never would have been an Aquilonian empire, and Epemitreus/Mitra knew this (ahead of time, even). With that great destiny versus collapse and conquest, perhaps by Stygia, which would a god of good choose? So what would he care if a tithe of the people worshipped other gods, as long as they were not Set?

The jealousies of gods, I find, lurk not in their hearts, but in the hearts of men...

 

[xulwolf]

Do you think that Mitra was tied to the crown of Aquilonia, as the chaos gods were tied to the ring of kings in the Elric novels?

 

[René]

He does not say, "Mitra guided me as I fought Set," it was he who was actually fighting Set directly. And at first not Set's followers, but Set himself, who walked the world back in the day.

And so Epimitreus, like Bori before him, was deified by the Hybroians as Mitra. Thus it was not the spirit of a sage who summoned forth Conan that night, it was Mitra himself...

In my opinion a priest / sage could say "I fought Set" without a problem (a little bit unmodestly, OK). Or would it be so improbable that e.g. a honoured member of the Salvation Army says "All my life I fought against the abuse of alcohol." Even if he thinks he's got this job from God, the sentence would be OK. So I think your statement has not to be correct.

But it very well could. To be honest, I'm really intrigued by the possibility that you are right. I've to think a little bit about this.

Besides I'm a little bit angry about myself: for several years my main occupation is philological work and I'm too blind to see such a potentially big thing in one of my favourite authors. But nonetheless thanks for the idea! :wink:

 

[The King]

I'll just say this to pastiche works: I read many before I "encounter" Steve Perry's Conan the Indomitable. It was the first schock and needed a long time to recover.
Then I read again and met Conan and the Death Lord of Thanza (where Conan talk to skelettons and where we encounter a death but speaking skull).
So I decided that it's not because it's written "Conan" or "Hyborian" on it that it is a brand of quality.
What would be great though is a magazine or book series dedicated to Sword & Sorcery and other fictional genres with short stories from several authors as was the case in the weird tales and others stories from the 20's-40's.

 

[thulsa]

What would be great though is a magazine or book series dedicated to Sword & Sorcery and other fictional genres with short stories from several authors as was the case in the weird tales and others stories from the 20's-40's.

Look no further than the "Flashing Swords E-Zine":

http://www.swordandsorcery.org/

Current Issue:

http://www.swordandsorcery.org/fs/vol1-iss4-toc.asp

Not everything here is quite up to REH's standards (to put it mildly...), but there's surely gems waiting to be found. And it's free, so who can complain... ?

- thulsa