ACTA Tournaments - Ditch 5pt Raid and try something new...

[Reborn]

Caveats, nice word

 

[Reaverman]

Caveats, nice word

being a trainee wizard, you would know all about caveats

 

[Hash]

IMO it doesn't need any additional caveats or restrictions bar the 1 Arm point as far as fleet selection goes - yes you can pick 12 Saggs but at 8pt Raid (which Armageddon almost is) you should be able to pick 16 Saggs for the same points!

There is already a nerf on swarm fleets that does not rely on caveats or tweaks but on how the actual 'buying down' system works within the game.

However, as I said before, this really needs testing to see if it is viable so I hope to convince my local group to give it a try...but maybe after we get some campaign games in!

 

[Nidalap]

Hi Hash mate. When you come up to I.D for the torny We have a few ideas that should keep everyone happy. What we can do is have a natter and come up with something for the next torny after this one. that will give us all time to playtest and iron out any problems.
What do you think?

Cheers,
Barry

 

[Hash]

Sounds good! Count me in.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Hi guys,

Nice ideas, but one problem.

With 1 Armageddon FAP, you can split it down and down - but you can only split one point, and so every player either has to take an Armageddon ship or a War ship and others.

Now. . . What happens if a fleet does not have an Armageddon or War choice?

I don't think I want to outlaw Raiders from tournaments. . .

 

[Burger]

Matt,
Earlier in the thread we wondered if the points could be split like this:

1 Armageddon (split into 3 Battle points)
3 Battle Points (then split 1 Battle) --->
2 Battle Points + 3 Skirmish

Or, can you only split a point into 1 level down, if you want to re-split it?

 

[katadder]

could always try tourney as 2 war points, then you could swap both for an armageddon ship or go down using battle etc with either of them. more flexibility but still only 6 raid ships max, altho that does give you the 2 battle and 4 raid ships option instead of 2 battle and 2 raid

 

[ubertechie]

Surely in a tourney if all possible breakdowns of the 1 Armgeddon FAP where listed in the ruels pack - or online or wherever then everyone is using the same level field - yes it may not wuite be what was intedned with the new Armageddon fleet breakdowns as shown in the book - but is certainly a very workable system that rewards people that take fewer larger hulls the breakdown being

1 Armageddon

2 War

1 War - 2 Battle
1 War - 1 Battle - 2 Raid (my favourite WS-Carrier, WS-2, 2 * White stars)
1 War - 1 Battle - 1 Raid - 2 Skirmish
1 War - 1 Battle - 1 Raid - 1 Skirmish - 2 Patrol
1 War - 1 Battle - 1 Raid - 3 Patrol
1 War - 1 Battle - 3 Skirmish
1 War - 1 Battle - 2 Skirmish - 2 Patrol
1 War - 1 Battle - 1 Skirmish - 4 Patrol
1 War - 1 Battle - 12 Patrol
1 War - 3 Raid
1 War - 2 Raid - 2 Skirmish
1 War - 2 Raid - 1 Skirmish - 2 Patrol
1 War - 2 Raid - 3 Patrol
1 War - 1 Raid - 4 Skirmish
1 War - 1 Raid - 3 Skirmish - 2 Patrol
1 War - 1 Raid - 2 Skirmish - 4 Patrol
1 War - 1 Raid - 1 Skirmish - 6 Patrol
1 War - 1 Raid - 6 Patrol (looks odd but is right 1 raid = 1 3 patrol * 2 = 6)
1 War - 6 Skirmish
1 War - 5 Skirmish - 2 Patrol
1 War - 4 Skirmish - 4 Patrol
1 War - 3 Skirmish - 6 Patrol
1 War - 2 Skirmish - 8 Patrol
1 War - 1 Skirmish - 10 Patrol
1 War - 12 Patrol

3 Battle

2 Battle - 4 Raid
2 Battle - 3 Raid - 2 Skirmish
2 Battle - 3 Raid - 1 Skirmish - 2 Patrol
2 Battle - 3 Raid - 3 Patrol
2 Battle - 2 Raid - 3 Skirmish
2 Battle - 2 Raid - 2 Skirmish - 2 Patrol
2 Battle - 2 Raid - 1 Skirmish - 4Patrol
2 Battle - 2 Raid - 6 Patrol
2 Battle - 6 Skirmish
2 Battle - 5 Skirmish - 2 Patrol
2 Battle - 4 Skirmish - 4 Patrol
2 Battle - 3 Skirmish - 6 Patrol
2 Battle - 2 Skirmish - 8 Patrol
2 Battle - 1 Skirmish - 10 Patrol
2 Battle - 12 Patrol

6 Raid

Most people can work it out from 6 raid down

 

[Reaverman]

2 Battle - 6 Skirmish

I think you mean 1 Armageddon point=3 Battle, and not 4?

 

[Burger]

1 War - 1 Raid - 4 Skirmish

How does this work? Split the Armageddon into 2 War, split one of the War into 3 Raid... then what?

 

[ubertechie]

How does this work? Split the Armageddon into 2 War, split one of the War into 3 Raid... then what?

1 war 1 raid then split 2 raid points

The point is that for a tournament it doesnt matter too much how things are derived - a list of acceptabel breakdowns is published and thats its - just likeGW allowing special charchters and no supplements at this years WHFB GT heats <GRRRRR>

 

[Burger]

How does this work? Split the Armageddon into 2 War, split one of the War into 3 Raid... then what?

1 war 1 raid then split 2 raid points

You can only re-split 1 point, not 2.

The point is that for a tournament it doesnt matter too much how things are derived - a list of acceptabel breakdowns is published and thats its - just likeGW allowing special charchters and no supplements at this years WHFB GT heats <GRRRRR>

Uhh no thanks, stick with the same point-splitting rules as Armageddon. The whole point is to not have different rules for tournaments.

 

[Hash]

Hi guys,

Nice ideas, but one problem.

With 1 Armageddon FAP, you can split it down and down - but you can only split one point, and so every player either has to take an Armageddon ship or a War ship and others.

Now. . . What happens if a fleet does not have an Armageddon or War choice?

I don't think I want to outlaw Raiders from tournaments. . .

Well like Burger says there are a huge number of options if you allow a split down to Battle or Raid THEN allow the split one point of them down. Even if you don't, you don't have to apply the splitting rule to Raiders you can always take:

6 Raid choices - Battlewagons!
12 Skirmish choices - Stirke Carriers!
24 Patrol Choices - An armada of freighters and fighters...

They all sound very cool to me...course if you did allow splitting to 6 raid and then splitting one point you would allow:

5 Raid
2 Skirmish

Or

5 Raid
3 Patrol

Or

5 Raid (Battlewagon)
1 Skirmish (Strike Carrier)
2 Patrol (say Double V fighter wings)

Surely all very viable options Matt? Well as viable as Raiders will ever be!

 

[Triggy]

Hi guys,

Nice ideas, but one problem.

With 1 Armageddon FAP, you can split it down and down - but you can only split one point, and so every player either has to take an Armageddon ship or a War ship and others.

Now. . . What happens if a fleet does not have an Armageddon or War choice?

I don't think I want to outlaw Raiders from tournaments. . .

Well like Burger says there are a huge number of options if you allow a split down to Battle or Raid THEN allow the split one point of them down. Even if you don't, you don't have to apply the splitting rule to Raiders you can always take:

6 Raid choices - Battlewagons!
12 Skirmish choices - Stirke Carriers!
24 Patrol Choices - An armada of freighters and fighters...

They all sound very cool to me...course if you did allow splitting to 6 raid and then splitting one point you would allow:

5 Raid
2 Skirmish

Or

5 Raid
3 Patrol

Or

5 Raid (Battlewagon)
1 Skirmish (Strike Carrier)
2 Patrol (say Double V fighter wings)

Surely all very viable options Matt? Well as viable as Raiders will ever be!

I'm getting the feeling by Matt's comment that you can't resplit any point that has already been split as you state other than the "top down" one point at each PL. This would leave the only way for some fleets to get Raid and Skirmish level ships being to take a "single set" of 6 Raid ships for example.

 

[Hash]

I've put up a query on rulemasters and hope that Matt clarifies this - BTW I still think it is viable even if you can't split from armageddon down to raid and then start splitting down one at a time.

6 Battlewagon or 12 Strike Carriers is perhaps not that good a fleet but then Raiders were never a particularly uber fleet to begin with!

It would work much better if you could do splitting as some people suggested...or if Mongoose gave at least one choice at every PL for every race which I would very much be in favour of actually!

 

[Burger]

Agreed totally, I can't see any reason why not to allow splitting as we've suggested.

Lets try to keep the rulesmasters thread clear, for an official answer (that'll be the day...)

 

[Reaverman]

It would also mean that fleets that are stronger in skirmish, are not going to take anything but Skirmish. Since who is going to take the other PL's, where you are going to be weaker.

 

[Burger]

It would also mean that fleets that are stronger in skirmish, are not going to take anything but Skirmish. Since who is going to take the other PL's, where you are going to be weaker.

How's that different to the status quo?
If you just want Skirmish ships, it doesn't matter whether or not you're allowed to split into 2 Battle + 2 Raid... you're going to take 12 Skirmish whatever happens. No point re-splitting.

 

[Reaverman]

It would also mean that fleets that are stronger in skirmish, are not going to take anything but Skirmish. Since who is going to take the other PL's, where you are going to be weaker.

How's that different to the status quo?

Because if you can only split it one per PL, the Narn Players are not going to divide the points over Raid, or Battle. The one Armageddon PL, will be split over skirmish.