ACTA Tournaments - Ditch 5pt Raid and try something new...

What level and how many FAPs do you want in tournaments?

• OTHER - Please post and explain

• Total voters
0

Hash

Mongoose
Burger said:
I don't see why you shouldn't split the points into 3, then further split one. When it said 1 point can be further split, I took it to mean by any means on the FAP table.

Eg.
1 Armageddon (split into 3 Battle points)
3 Battle Points (then split 1 Battle) --->
2 Battle Points + 3 Skirmish

Ok, just read it as I thought it said, quite happy to be wrong - a plethora of options then!

Burger

Cosmic Mongoose
Hash said:
Burger said:
I don't see why you shouldn't split the points into 3, then further split one. When it said 1 point can be further split, I took it to mean by any means on the FAP table.

Eg.
1 Armageddon (split into 3 Battle points)
3 Battle Points (then split 1 Battle) --->
2 Battle Points + 3 Skirmish

Ok, just read it as I thought it said, quite happy to be wrong - a plethora of options then!
Maybe this is one for the rulesmasters.

Burger

Cosmic Mongoose
Just thought of a potential problem... how would this work for ISA's Allies?
1 Armageddon pint total, of which up to 1 Raid point can be allies?

Hash

Mongoose
Burger said:
Just thought of a potential problem... how would this work for ISA's Allies?
1 Armageddon pint total, of which up to 1 Raid point can be allies?

Yeah, I thought of that in my original post, my solution is something simple like:

Hash said:
b. Allies at 1 FAP for some races can be tricky - I suggest a simple rule such that, from the splits above you may make:

1 Raid
2 Skirmish
1 Skirmish and 2 Patrol
Or 3 Patrol choices as an ally and you will reflect the current balance as is.

It isn't quite right at 1pt Armageddon is closer to 8pt Raid and 1pt War is approx 4pt Raid but it's in the 'ball park' at a 1/5th the worth of your fleet.

You could do it properly by using the fleet "value" characteristic I derived and saying no more than 1/5th of that can be allies but that might be slightly complicated

BTW if the split works as you and LBH suggest (and thinking about I can't see why not) the options work out (I think!) as the following for 1 pt War...

locarno24

Cosmic Mongoose
I have to say I like the idea.....it also allows the 'fleet' of one humungous ship if you're so inclined (I will have a shadow warship....). Maybe not the most effective, but very characterful.

Pauly_D

Mongoose
Hash said:
lastbesthope said:
Pauly, you are missing some options of 1 FAP Armagedon breakdown for instance 1 FAP=3 BAttle=2 Battle + (A variety of options).LBH

LBH, I'm assuming you meant to direct that comment at me rather than Pauly as I don't think Pauly was commenting on Armageddon splits.

maybe 1 FAP at Armageddeon may be a better route as the way the points get split will force players to take a more balanced fleet

Mongoose
somehow i doubt it, people will still take their all skirmish fleets etc, hell at the moment you can get a warship and a raid if you ant big ships, its only taking it slightly further which actually means more of the little ships. no one in their right mind much as i would like to will take one ship against the swarms that are at tourneys, one no weaopns crit and its all over. they dont do it now, why do you think they would do it with an armageddon point instead of a war and a raid?

Pauly_D

Mongoose
they dont do it now, why do you think they would do it with an armageddon point instead of a war and a raid?

the reason is because of the way the points can be split
1 Armageddeon can be split into 1 War, 1 Battle, 1 Raid, 2 Skirmish
alternatively if you want lots of raid ships then it can be split into 3 Raid ships
whereas 5 point battle could be 10 Raid, or 2 War and 2 Raid
the single armageddeon point makes splitting the points up more beneficial so a single overpowered ship wont be so noticable in a tournament

Triggy

Mongoose
Pauly_D said:
they dont do it now, why do you think they would do it with an armageddon point instead of a war and a raid?

the reason is because of the way the points can be split
1 Armageddeon can be split into 1 War, 1 Battle, 1 Raid, 2 Skirmish
alternatively if you want lots of raid ships then it can be split into 6 Raid ships
whereas 5 point battle could be 10 Raid, or 2 War and 2 Raid
the single armageddeon point makes splitting the points up more beneficial so a single overpowered ship wont be so noticable in a tournament
Exactly, you get a better "points break" on mixed fleets although you can still take fleets all of one ship type if you want. This way, bigger ships are more viable, as are mixed fleets and repetative, "tournament" fleets are harder to make "better" than other options.

lastbesthope

Mongoose
Hash said:
lastbesthope said:
Pauly, you are missing some options of 1 FAP Armagedon breakdown for instance 1 FAP=3 BAttle=2 Battle + (A variety of options).LBH

LBH, I'm assuming you meant to direct that comment at me rather than Pauly as I don't think Pauly was commenting on Armageddon splits.

Yes I did mean you, I was somewhat inebriated while I was posting last night.

ANd yes I think the 2nd of the 2 methods is the right one,

e.g.
1 Armageddon
= 2 War
=1 War + 2 BAttle
=1 War + 1 Battle + 2 Raid
=1 War + 1 Battle + 1 Raid + 2 Skirmish
=1 War + 1 Battle + 1 Raid + 1 Skirmish + 2 Patrol

OR 1 Armageddon
=3 Battle
=2 Battle + 3 Skirmish

Things like that I think.

LBH

Mongoose
Pauly_D said:
they dont do it now, why do you think they would do it with an armageddon point instead of a war and a raid?

the reason is because of the way the points can be split
1 Armageddeon can be split into 1 War, 1 Battle, 1 Raid, 2 Skirmish
alternatively if you want lots of raid ships then it can be split into 3 Raid ships
whereas 5 point battle could be 10 Raid, or 2 War and 2 Raid
the single armageddeon point makes splitting the points up more beneficial so a single overpowered ship wont be so noticable in a tournament

1 armageddon point is actually 6 raid ships, or one warship and 3 raid etc. basically its gonna be the same altho does allow more ships at bigger levels, almost turning it into a 6 point raid tourney apart from if you take 2 warships as that would be an 8 point raid. the rest of the split is pretty much just the same amount of ships as if you had 6 point raid.

1Arm=3 battle
6 raid=3 battle

Bubba Ho-Tep

Mongoose
I like it. I voted for the Armageddon, but then I ain't picky, I just want to blow ships up.

Pauly_D

Mongoose
Pauly_D said:
they dont do it now, why do you think they would do it with an armageddon point instead of a war and a raid?

the reason is because of the way the points can be split
1 Armageddeon can be split into 1 War, 1 Battle, 1 Raid, 2 Skirmish
alternatively if you want lots of raid ships then it can be split into 3 Raid ships
whereas 5 point battle could be 10 Raid, or 2 War and 2 Raid
the single armageddeon point makes splitting the points up more beneficial so a single overpowered ship wont be so noticable in a tournament

1 armageddon point is actually 6 raid ships, or one warship and 3 raid etc. basically its gonna be the same altho does allow more ships at bigger levels, almost turning it into a 6 point raid tourney apart from if you take 2 warships as that would be an 8 point raid. the rest of the split is pretty much just the same amount of ships as if you had 6 point raid.

1Arm=3 battle
6 raid=3 battle

yeh sorry typo on the number of raid ships
but if you took either 1 armageddeon or 2 War ships (or 1 War and 2 Battle) then thats equivalent to 8 points at Raid level compared to 6 Raid ships which would be 6 Points at Raid level so people should be less likely to take lots of smaller ships as they get less for their points

Ripple

Mongoose
Yep!...go back to the original post and you can see that folks going for the raid/skirmish stacks are getting about 75% of what the mixed fleets are getting. I like it.

Ripple

Baron EvZ

Mongoose
Pre-Armageddon, 5pt Raid was optimal because it allowed you to potentially field any fleet on the list, while still keeping the game short and managable in a tournament setting. With the new Armageddon PL, this is no longer the case.

However, raising the PL or the point total will lead to larger fleets, and longer games. This may give the Tournament Administrators some correspondingly large headaches...

Perhaps a "Ship" limit should be added, to keep things managable. Say, 10 ships? This will encourage the larger value fleets to have SOME larger ships to keep gameplay still moving smoothly along, which will in turn promote fleet diversity to a limited extent. Honestly, do you really want to have to deal with a 12 Sagg. Fleet.

My \$0.02.

Hash

Mongoose
Baron EvZ said:
Honestly, do you really want to have to deal with a 12 Sagg. Fleet.

My \$0.02.

LOL - I was hoping my analysis would show that the 12 Sag fleet (or indeed any 12 skirmish ships) are likely to be less effective than a mix, still...I reckon there are numerous options at 1pt Armageddon that will blow the 12 Sag fleet out of space entirely!

2 Vorlon Lt Cruisers come to mind...

Triggy

Mongoose
Yeah, the 12 Sag fleet would now only be very good as opposed to "better than anything else". There are certain powerful combinations but at least they're combinations and require a good mix of ships an abilities to work most effectively!

Chernobyl

Mongoose
Hash, anything with a GEG will do well I believe.

Chern

Burger

Cosmic Mongoose
Chernobyl said:
Hash, anything with a GEG will do well I believe.

Chern
What, with 6AD precise being thrown at you per sag?

Reaverman

Mongoose
Baron EvZ said:
Perhaps a "Ship" limit should be added, to keep things managable. Say, 10 ships?

I'd prefer the 1 Armageddon point, over the 5 point raid. But if its going to have all sorts of silly caveats, I think I'd stick to the simple 5 point raid game!

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