A question about flurry

[Don Allen]

Yeah, I get it. Personally I like the random roll without swapping method. But even with the swapping if one of my players put the 18 (provided he even rolls one which isn't too likely) into Dex he still won't (for a while anyways) have 4 CAs. I imagine it would take quite some time to increase it. He would have to spend all 3 improvement rolls for each story just to try to increase it and then only have a 10% chance, right? I see what you are saying about the skills and attributes though. Seems like the guy who chooses to be content with 3 CAs for the time being will be much more SKILLED than the one who spent who knows how many adventures trying to raise his DEX.
Yeah, it does seem sort of odd that they have made the choice of number of actions per round based on how fast you are but I don't think it is a big problem (at least for players who are not used to other incarnations of RQ).

 

[Sigtrygg]

THis is a tremedous advantage, and probably offsets a big discrepancy in skill, as the 19DEX character will be getting two undefended attacks each round, even if the other character was much, much more skilled.

If you have a shield you gain an extra reaction (the Dex 19 character could be using two weapons though ).

I prefer to change the defend action so that it also converts an action to a reaction.
If you are going up agains someone much faster than you who flurries immediately then fight defensively.

Another option I use is the counterstrike, but that would probably leave both parties dead :twisted:

 

[atgxtg]

I"ve also considered a counterstrike. THey way I'm thinking it might not leave both parties dead.

I'm also cosnidering an option where instead of taking a overextend or Riposte a defender can "rebound" their reaction back for the parry, or cost the attacker an action to regain balcne (for overextend).

This would allow skill to be able to offset the raw DEX.

 

[atgxtg]

Yeah, I get it. Personally I like the random roll without swapping method. But even with the swapping if one of my players put the 18 (provided he even rolls one which isn't too likely) into Dex he still won't (for a while anyways) have 4 CAs. I imagine it would take quite some time to increase it. He would have to spend all 3 improvement rolls for each story just to try to increase it and then only have a 10% chance, right? I see what you are saying about the skills and attributes though. Seems like the guy who chooses to be content with 3 CAs for the time being will be much more SKILLED than the one who spent who knows how many adventures trying to raise his DEX.
Yeah, it does seem sort of odd that they have made the choice of number of actions per round based on how fast you are but I don't think it is a big problem (at least for players who are not used to other incarnations of RQ).

My biggest fear wouldn't be that the 18 DEX guy would raise his DEX, but that someone would learn Coodination. For 1 point the character gets an extra action. Better still, for 4 points the 12 DEX character gets the equivalent of a D&D Haste spell. In old RQ, everyone would eventually end up with some magic, and based on the info presented in the "experienced characters" section this is true of MRQ too. With the changes in the rules, a lot of the spells now have some new effects that were not there before. That little "wrinkle" makes Coordination a much better spell than it was before. It als0 makes Mobility a much less useful spell than before. Rather than spending 4 points on Mobility for an extra 4m movement, most character would be far better or to spend the points on Coodination, get extra movement when thier CA goes up, plus a +8 bonus to all DEX skills. And then all those extra CA's mean the character can cast four spells a round.

 

[algauble]

...
I guess what's really confounding to me is that in MRQ they actually lessened the importance of most of the other stats even more then they already were in earlier editions of the game. There used to be "stat rolls", which were kind of a "everyman skill" type thing. If you needed to lift something, you rolled your STR versus the SIZ of the object on a resistance table. Often the GM might call for a "DEX times 5" roll to see if you slipped on something slippery for instance. Stats were used to determine basic environment versus player kind of things (and some player versus player stuff like STR v STR, and POW v POW rolls). In MRQ, those have been replaced with skills. But then the importance of DEX (and really DEX alone) has been vastly increased.
....

What do stats do now (after character creation)? Is it really just the figured stats (HP, SR, CA) that actually get used for anything?

 

[simonh]

On ballance I think Don is probably right to not be worried about DEX in MRQ. Naturaly any combat characetr will want a decent DEX, and 13 DEX is only a couple of points above average. Using the roll and assign method anyone wanting a combat character will almost certainly be able to get a 13 DEX without problems. For non-combat characters it's not a problem.

So yes combat characetrs will optimise their DEX, but it's not a very difficult or awkward optimisation so I don't think it will be an issue. Going for an 18 DEX in order to get 19 may happen, but it's so tough to do that it's not a no-brainer, must-do strategy.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Archer]

I find it much more amusing that a "good" combat character needs a high dex and a high int for the Strike Rank modifier
Talk about breaking the stereotype of the dumb but fast/strong warrior that defeats all. Now a good combat character actually has the brains to win through smarts instead.

For some reason this reminds me of the hero in the movie The Princess Bride....

 

[atgxtg]

I find it much more amusing that a "good" combat character needs a high dex and a high int for the Strike Rank modifier
Talk about breaking the stereotype of the dumb but fast/strong warrior that defeats all. Now a good combat character actually has the brains to win through smarts instead.

For some reason this reminds me of the hero in the movie The Princess Bride....

""Inconceivable!" :wink:

 

[Don Allen]

Yeah, thats sort of cool that INT won't always get dumped on now

Makes sense. Even Conan, contrary to popular opinion (mostly due to Ahnolds portrayal) was not dumb but cunning and intuitive.

 

[atgxtg]

Yeah, thats sort of cool that INT won't always get dumped on now

Makes sense. Even Conan, contrary to popular opinion (mostly due to Ahnolds portrayal) was not dumb but cunning and intuitive.

IN RQ INT never got dumped on. It used to be a very important start, as it affected most of you skills, inclduing your weapon attack skills, as well as your chances of improemnt. Smarter characters used to improve faster. INT is also one of the limited attributes for spells.

I suspect it will be even more important once the Companion comes out.

 

[Don Allen]

I was referring to other games like d20 in which fighters usually don't have a "high" Int. I can't remember how the older RQ did things since it's been 19 years since I played but I like the way Mongoose has seemed to streamline character creation etc. I think they are aiming at younger players (as is D&D) which is good in my opinion since I have a daughter now and she is getting interested in RPGs. (She is 5 and her and her mom played a 5 hour session of Castles and Crusades with me the other day. She loved it!)

 

[Archer]

I find it much more amusing that a "good" combat character needs a high dex and a high int for the Strike Rank modifier
Talk about breaking the stereotype of the dumb but fast/strong warrior that defeats all. Now a good combat character actually has the brains to win through smarts instead.

For some reason this reminds me of the hero in the movie The Princess Bride....

""Inconceivable!" :wink:

LOL.
That movie has some funny characters, even if they are stereotypes.

 

[atgxtg]

I find it much more amusing that a "good" combat character needs a high dex and a high int for the Strike Rank modifier
Talk about breaking the stereotype of the dumb but fast/strong warrior that defeats all. Now a good combat character actually has the brains to win through smarts instead.

For some reason this reminds me of the hero in the movie The Princess Bride....

""Inconceivable!" :wink:

LOL.
That movie has some funny characters, even if they are stereotypes.

That is part of the reason why they are so funny, because they are sterotypes. It makes them doubly hysterical when they break character. The book is worth a read too.

I used to be able to nail Wallace Shawn's voice perfectly for that line and could get my friends to break up at practically any time or place just by saying "Inconcievable" in that exasperated voice. It was fun to drop that when we were surrounded by people who never saw the film and see the curoius look as my friends started laughing over nothing.

 

[Archer]

""Inconceivable!" :wink:

LOL.
That movie has some funny characters, even if they are stereotypes.

That is part of the reason why they are so funny, because they are sterotypes. It makes them doubly hysterical when they break character. The book is worth a read too.

I have played a character based on the sword weilding villain, he who is trying to avenge his fathers death. It was quite fun while it lasted

I used to be able to nail Wallace Shawn's voice perfectly for that line and could get my friends to break up at practically any time or place just by saying "Inconcievable" in that exasperated voice. It was fun to drop that when we were surrounded by people who never saw the film and see the curoius look as my friends started laughing over nothing.

Our first GM also included a similar character into the same campaign where I played the character mentioned above. We had a blast playing a campaign that in large parts were based on that movie. We even got to rescue a princess...

 

[Don Allen]

After rereading the combat rules and Combat options it seems (at least the way I'm going to play it) that the flurry action actually costs 1 CA. So if a character starts with 3 CA and decides to flurry he will only have 2 left to flurry with. I don't know if thats how it's supposed to be but it sounds good to me. You get a number of actions to use each round and you can spend one action on your strike rank whether that is move, charge, close combat, flurry, etc. Seems like you are spending an action to flurry.

 

[atgxtg]

After rereading the combat rules and Combat options it seems (at least the way I'm going to play it) that the flurry action actually costs 1 CA. So if a character starts with 3 CA and decides to flurry he will only have 2 left to flurry with. I don't know if thats how it's supposed to be but it sounds good to me. You get a number of actions to use each round and you can spend one action on your strike rank whether that is move, charge, close combat, flurry, etc. Seems like you are spending an action to flurry.

I don't think so. Most people only have 2 CA's.

"I flurry. Take that, and at -20%."

 

[Don Allen]

You wouldn't flurry unless you were a fast fighter. Makes sense to me. How can a lumbering stone golem flurry when he is so slow? This makes flurry less powerful too.

 

[atgxtg]

You wouldn't flurry unless you were a fast fighter. Makes sense to me. How can a lumbering stone golem flurry when he is so slow? This makes flurry less powerful too.

It is really more of a matter of skill and wrist strength. Basically, in the real world, peole with average DEX scores can and do "flurry". I don't like the idea that all those pople couldn't in the game.


Personally, I think CAs are going to be a big problem.

 

[Archer]

In martial arts, if you manage to get the upper hand, you keep on hitting until the opponent gives up or goes down (full contact, which is not allowed in Sweden).
As flurry works now, that is pretty much how I see it. When you get the first blow, you keep on hitting trying to take the opponent down before he can turn the tables on you.

 

[zanshin]

In martial arts, if you manage to get the upper hand, you keep on hitting until the opponent gives up or goes down (full contact, which is not allowed in Sweden).
As flurry works now, that is pretty much how I see it. When you get the first blow, you keep on hitting trying to take the opponent down before he can turn the tables on you.

Thats not how it works in the game though, you dont have to succeed with the hit, although the model you have presented is a fine and accurate one - and is effectively covered by the loss of combat actions from receiving a disabling blow.

For me it is a matter of someone substituting speed and volume of blows for accuracy and precision, then exposing themselves to the counterattack, quickly trying to overwhelm them, then if failing being back on the defensive. Anyone of any speed can try to do this...faster people will be better at it (ie they get more combat actions)