A Poll On The Use Of AI Art In TAS Products

[Terry Mixon]

Oh - I didn't see the instructions to not let anybody who approved of AI to vote.

I didn't realize this was an AI-trolls-only poll

Why do you have a problem with people who approve of AI finding out about this poll and expressing their opinions?

I guess it was disingenuous from the start? Do you really consider encouraging the democratic process "rabble rousing"? Would you be complaining if voters "skewed" the results in the other direction?

I quoted from the trolls on this very forum, sorry if you didn't like my summary of the standard complaints.

Next time you want to take a poll without the opinion of certain people maybe do a better job of hiding it?

I really dont understand what you're complaining about - the NOs STILL have it.

I am shocked SHOCKED at how you froth at the mouth.

As I CLEARLY stated in the opening post of the poll, I was taking the temperature of the board, not the universe at large. If you’d taken even a moment to see what the poll was for, you wouldn’t have needed to race off and manipulate the poll to get the result you wanted rather than seeing what the BOARD actually thought.

Do I consider bringing a mob of like minded to ruin a BOARD SPECIFIC poll rabble rousing? Yes. Yes, I do. It’s the kind of action taken by someone that has to be right at all costs. The mere possibility that someone somewhere disagrees with you cannot be tolerated, it seems. Like I said, stay classy.

 

[CyborgPrime]

I am shocked SHOCKED at how you froth at the mouth.

As I CLEARLY stated in the opening post of the poll, I was taking the temperature of the board, not the universe at large. If you’d taken even a moment to see what the poll was for, you wouldn’t have needed to race off and manipulate the poll to get the result you wanted rather than seeing what the BOARD actually thought.

Do I concerning bringing a mob of like minded to ruin a BOARD SPECIFIC poll rabble rousing? Yes. Yes, I do. It’s the kind of action taken by someone that has to be right at all costs. The mere possibility that someone somewhere disagrees with you cannot be tolerated, it seems. Like I said, stay classy.

That was a measured response but you consider it "frothing"?

You were ok when they were YOUR like-minded voters.. got it.

Again, I doubt we would have seen such an extreme reaction if the voters had gone in the other direction.

 

[Terry Mixon]

That was a measured response but you consider it "frothing"?

You were ok when they were YOUR like-minded voters.. got it.

Again, I doubt we would have seen such an extreme reaction if the voters had gone in the other direction.

That’s measured? Seriously? lol

I never once advocated one position for the poll or another. I have my opinions, sure, but I asked for what people thought. I was more than willing to see how the poll came out. You were not.

What did you do? Go out and ask everyone to go vote how they thought? No. Not even close.

 

[CyborgPrime]

People voted how they wanted - I just boosted the signal in areas where people think about this topic all day. You realize there is a membership cross-over between this forum and other social media groups? The Traveller Ai group has over 1000 members enjoying Traveller AI art - clearly they didnt rush over here to vote at my command - you had a total of like 70 votes from all sources.

If they voted the way I wanted, the results would have been very different.

You didn't like the results so you pulled the plug - we get it.

 

[Terry Mixon]

People voted how they wanted - I just boosted the signal in areas where people think about this topic all day. You realize there is a membership cross-over between this forum and other social media groups? The Traveller Ai group has over 1000 members enjoying Traveller AI art - clearly they didnt rush over here to vote at my command - you had a total of like 70 votes from all sources.

If they voted the way I wanted, the results would have been very different.

You didn't like the results so you pulled the plug - we get it.

Believe what you like. You will anyway.

 

[Nadia Grell]

As an artist, I have nothing against AI art used in products. Better to have AI art than some of the art used in various RPG books and having no art is just boring. As long as it is stated that the art in this product was made by AI and have subtle watermarks. I do prefer this over the art in some of the current books.

 

[swordtart]

In the unlikely event that I ever produce a TAS product I will be leveraging all the AI I can set my hand to, spell checkers, Google search for license free illustrations etc.

My choice of illustrations, composition and colour palettes etc, will likely follow conventionally pleasing aesthetics based on the learning acquired over a lifetime from studying "stolen" art for which I do not hold the copyright, in this regard I should probably be considered AI in some peoples view.

I will probably use software procedural generators of my own design to generate characters and situations as prompts for ideas for plots and complications, characters and worlds. If I didn't I would likely end up producing things that were contra the rules and that is always irritating.

The final product however will have been steered, curated and filtered by my own neurodiverse intelligence. I will claim the work as entirely my own creative output because it will be, regardless of the tools I use to build it. If you need me to say that AI was part if the creative process than you do not understand the pervasiveness of AI in the world at this time.

For those who oppose AI art or text I suggest you use your discretion and support what you wish based on your opinion.

However, if you cannot tell the difference between AI generated work and that generated by a human sufficiently that you need the author to tell you, then I don't think you are ideally placed to be stipulating the criteria for acceptance. If you judge a work by who produced it or it's method of production rather than it's inherent quality or value as an art piece then I am inclined to see that as a poor qualification to deny a freedom for other people.

It is not the AI's that are publishing these works. There is ultimately a human who is putting these works out and you are affecting their bottom line, not that of some uncaring machine. This could be the the thing keeping the wolf from the door while they produce their magnum opus that uplifts our experience. Plenty of artists churn out pay-art so they can fund their passion (possibly a passion that has a limited market).

Tread softly, you may be treading on their dreams.

 

[heron61]

Absolutely not, and I will not purchase any product with AI art. Current AI art steals from human artists, and I'm strongly against it for any commercial products.

 

[Enkelas]

Oh - I didn't see the instructions to not let anybody who approved of AI to vote.

I didn't realize this was an AI-trolls-only poll - my apologies for not keeping it secret.

Why do you have a problem with people who approve of AI finding out about this poll and expressing their opinions?

I guess it was disingenuous from the start? Do you really consider encouraging the democratic process "rabble rousing"? Would you be complaining if voters "skewed" the results in the other direction?

I quoted from the trolls on this very forum, sorry if you didn't like my summary of the standard complaints.

Next time you want to take a poll without the opinion of certain people maybe do a better job of hiding it?

I really dont understand what you're complaining about - the NOs STILL have it.

CyborgPrime, for me no problem you call other people to vote. my problem is the tone of it. You could have said the same without being rude imo(im human i can be wrong eh! )

you say we are "iliterarte and make baseless assertions" and doing this you do the same. You are making baseless assertions, as you dont know if we have experience in ai or tech or whatever.

we also, imo, have done some comments that could be better said. for my part sorry if it is the case. remember that writing is a one tone emotion way of comunicating and can be missleading.

also i want to say i dont have any problem if you like to use ai or people use ai writting in a rpg book to sell it.
It is just i will not buy it, as a customer i have this right, to buy or not to buy something.

And i have said before, i have friends who have studied years on painting and sculpting(on real life and computer), sacrificing things in life to do what they like and live of. So when the food income to your family depends on it, i empathise with them.

i would like to say an example to you, as i know you sell rpg books(or so i believe, tell me if im wrong xD) :
Imagine one big company(a really big one) starts to copy your material with an ai and sell it as theirs, so your income gets low and have economic problems.
You can sue them, but that is a loose of time and resources that you would not have to do if they had some morals.
Being them so powerfull that you can do nothing at all you get broke and your life is harder.
you would not like it, true?
that is what is happenning to some people right know. so they dont like it.

so it is some of us dont like the use of ai in a predatory and unethical way, nothing less, nothing more.

ai could be a marvelous way to help the human race to progress and reach a lot of things, if we go hand by hand together. learning of each other.
but we have to take care as unethical use of ai or unethical ais, can be very bad for us too.

sorry for the long post and sorry if there are some writing faults, english is not my first lenguage

editing spelling errors

 

[MasterGwydion]

In the unlikely event that I ever produce a TAS product I will be leveraging all the AI I can set my hand to, spell checkers, Google search for license free illustrations etc.

My choice of illustrations, composition and colour palettes etc, will likely follow conventionally pleasing aesthetics based on the learning acquired over a lifetime from studying "stolen" art for which I do not hold the copyright, in this regard I should probably be considered AI in some peoples view.

I will probably use software procedural generators of my own design to generate characters and situations as prompts for ideas for plots and complications, characters and worlds. If I didn't I would likely end up producing things that were contra the rules and that is always irritating.

The final product however will have been steered, curated and filtered by my own neurodiverse intelligence. I will claim the work as entirely my own creative output because it will be, regardless of the tools I use to build it. If you need me to say that AI was part if the creative process than you do not understand the pervasiveness of AI in the world at this time.

For those who oppose AI art or text I suggest you use your discretion and support what you wish based on your opinion.

However, if you cannot tell the difference between AI generated work and that generated by a human sufficiently that you need the author to tell you, then I don't think you are ideally placed to be stipulating the criteria for acceptance. If you judge a work by who produced it or it's method of production rather than it's inherent quality or value as an art piece then I am inclined to see that as a poor qualification to deny a freedom for other people.

It is not the AI's that are publishing these works. There is ultimately a human who is putting these works out and you are affecting their bottom line, not that of some uncaring machine. This could be the the thing keeping the wolf from the door while they produce their magnum opus that uplifts our experience. Plenty of artists churn out pay-art so they can fund their passion (possibly a passion that has a limited market).

Tread softly, you may be treading on their dreams.

This is like a chef selling a steak that he cooked, but from a cow that was stolen. Doesn't matter if the chef stole the cow or not, the cow was still stolen and the food that he cooked is tainted by that theft, no matter how delicious that steak is.

 

[Grognardia]

You can use AI 'art' in your work but be open about it - and don't act all high and mighty about how you're an 'artiste'.

 

[CyborgPrime]

turn-about is fair play

 

[Condottiere]

If there is no copyright on artificially generated art, it would mean that anyone can copy it, and reuse it.

That probably means that commercial operations, like Mongoose, will continue to use actual artists.

 

[Varulv]

The board is a microcosm. the vast majority of the MgT fanbase don't post here. How do I know?
Check the numbers for their kickstater products.

Where are the thousand votes on this poll? As I post this there have been 70.

My guess is that most people just doesn't care. That this really is a non-issue for most people, rpg fans or not.

Just my two cents.

 

[ottarrus]

As we can see from the poll results, the issue certainly bears more discussion. It's pretty rare that gaming questions put to a vote come in this close, so obviously the gamer community is of two minds about all this.

 

[CordwainerFish]

Rem

As we can see from the poll results, the issue certainly bears more discussion. It's pretty rare that gaming questions put to a vote come in this close, so obviously the gamer community is of two minds about all this.

Remember when the Rajneeshis bussed a bunch of homeless people in from Portland, registered them to vote locally, and used them to capture the city government of Antelope, Oregon?

 

[ottarrus]

Rem

Remember when the Rajneeshis bussed a bunch of homeless people in from Portland, registered them to vote locally, and used them to capture the city government of Antelope, Oregon?

All too well. Putin did the same think in the Ukraine and Crimea... moved a bunch of ethnic Russians in and then used them as an excuse for his intervention/conquest.
But I don't think that is the case in this poll. A lot of this breaks down into age groups. Many of us older grogs are steadfastly against AI artwork and many younger folks are open to it.

 

[Arkathan]

All too well. Putin did the same think in the Ukraine and Crimea... moved a bunch of ethnic Russians in and then used them as an excuse for his intervention/conquest.
But I don't think that is the case in this poll. A lot of this breaks down into age groups. Many of us older grogs are steadfastly against AI artwork and many younger folks are open to it.

No, he admitted to actively recruiting people from another site. Antelope is an apt comparison.

 

[Terry Mixon]

All too well. Putin did the same think in the Ukraine and Crimea... moved a bunch of ethnic Russians in and then used them as an excuse for his intervention/conquest.
But I don't think that is the case in this poll. A lot of this breaks down into age groups. Many of us older grogs are steadfastly against AI artwork and many younger folks are open to it.

It is true. The ratio was more 2:1 before CyborgPrime started recruiting from the pro-AI side to tilt the poll. Scroll up and find his own words in the screen caps I posted.

 

[zircher]

If there is no copyright on artificially generated art, it would mean that anyone can copy it, and reuse it.

That probably means that commercial operations, like Mongoose, will continue to use actual artists.

Aye, in the US there are some good guidelines for AI use if you want to apply for a copyright. The first rule is that a human has to be part of the work since machines don't have those rights (yet.)