A narn Players love for a G'Quanth

[H]

so then, the G'Quanth. What is it, it's a G'Quan varient so it does automatically look awesome!, but then sadly, it's still stuck in a rut. Despite attempts to beef it up and make it a valid choice, it is still a poor relation to a bintak and a G'Vrahn.

Sure it's Ion Cannons have more dice than the BinTaks, and it's e-mines reload, and it has more torpedos. but it also has a weaker beam (only 1 AD with the P+P revisions I admit) it Carries no mag gun, it carries no fighters, it has no command bonus, and it of course isn't as tough. so as the Brawler it looses out a tad, so compare it to a G'Vrahn, with longer range mines, more speed, more fighters, an even better mag gun than the binTak, and the G'Vrahn again has a better main beam, so the G'Quanth looses out as the sniper. It IS a good option between the two just in case you don't know whether to brawl or snipe, but a Quick look at the supposed brawler BinTak shows a solid beam albeit 25" and still has torps so the bintak can snipe pre brawl, oh woe is the G'Quanth eh? well yes, and I Think the playtesters probably agree, and I suspect Matt does too, but what to do with it, drop it completely? just leave it, after all it's not a bad ship by any stretch of the imagination, OR, how about re-create it. . I've had a go. I have had 2 attempts. 1 is a battle level torpedo cruiser seen below . . just for reference this was designed as a post ISA ship, but is a good reference point for soemthing "different"..


G'Quanth class missile cruiser

Following the launch of the G'Vrahn, the most advanced warship to ever come from Narn shipyards, the design bureau began looking at how some of the technology could be adapted to upgrade or replace older designs. Looking to improve cost efficiency, the designers began looking at a replacement for the dag'kar, one of the most expensive ships ever fielded by the regime. The result was the G'kar. A solid no nonsense ship, the G'Kar doubled the effective firepower of the Dag'Kar on a much tougher more resiliant hull.

Name: Class/PL: G'Quanth class missile cruiser / Battle
Crew Quality: Troops: 4
Speed: 7 In Service: 2267+
Turns: 1 / 45 Craft: none
Hull: 5
Special Rules: Antifighter 2, jump Engine, Lumbering, Interceptors 2

Damage: 45 / 10
Crew: 60 / 15

Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Ion Torpedo 30 F 6 SAP, Precise
Ion Torpedo 30 F 6 SAP, Precise
Advanced E-Mines 45 F 6 AP, TD, Slow Loading
Ion Cannon 8 A 8 Twin Linked
Ion Cannon 8 P 8 Twin Linked
Ion Cannon 8 S 8 Twin Linked

Obviously this vessel is a standoff sniper going crit fishing.

or how about this, A true brawler, and yes I expect an outcry over it's e-mines, but i'm just playing with ideas here!!

G'Quanth Attack Cruiser
Name: Class/PL: G'Quanth Attack Cruiser / War
Crew Quality: Troops: 6
Speed: 5 In Service: 2252+
Turns: 1/45º Craft:
Hull: 6 Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 3
Jump Engine
Lumbering
Damage: 65 / 13 Crew: 80 / 19


Weapon Range Arc AD Special
Heavy Burst Beam 20 F 6 Beam

Ship Breaker Energy Mine 20 F 8 AP Energy Mine, One Shot, Quad Damage
Mag Gun 18 F 4 SAP, Triple damage
Light Ion Cannon 8 F 16 Twin-Linked
Light Ion Cannon 8 P 16 Twin-Linked
Burst Beam 12 P 3 Beam
Light Ion Cannon 8 S 16 Twin-Linked
Burst Beam 12 S 3 Beam
Light Ion Cannon 8 A 16 Twin-Linked

theses are both quick passes for something that could make the G'Quanth standout from it's fellow ships. and of course one really important point. The Narn do not need a new war ship in all honesty, the Bintak and G'Vrahn are both in the upper escelons of warships, their battleships maybe need something, I actually miss the battle var'Nic myself! but other ships in other fleets were definately in need of a workover before the G'Quanth.

 

[katadder]

how about one with an 8AD boresight beam at range 30 with next to no secondaries or fighters. battle level sniper replacing that var'nic.

 

[H]

send me the stats to peruse!
but only 2AD on top of a BinTak beam, or a G'Vrahn beam, with little secondaries sounds a bit naff

 

[katadder]

battle level hiff, battle level :d to replace your 1e var'nic

 

[H]

lol sorry yeah, my bad heheh.

 

[Da Boss]

Could just give the G'Qoun and all varients an 8 dice beam................. :?: no other upgrades - just one hefty beam.

Shipbreaker emines - I think before they could be intercepted (as I learnt to my cost in a tourney when my Primus vanished and I stupidly assumed they could not be :wink - never assume! )

 

[H]

well they were just a thought to make the G'Quanth a true up close brawler instead of standard mines. hadn't thoguht about whether to use them as origional shipbreakers worked

 

[Morgoth]

Really like the battle level Emine and Torp warship, interesting design. Good long range sniper. just think it shoul dhave some forward secondary weapons, perhaps 4AD??

 

[locarno24]

Alternatively, make the G'Quanth a battle level command ship - straight trade of Frazi flights for a command deck (kind of like the command hyperion)

 

[H]

Alternatively, make the G'Quanth a battle level command ship - straight trade of Frazi flights for a command deck (kind of like the command hyperion)

mmm, G'Tal?

 

[locarno24]

Oh, damn. Forgot the G'Tal.

So yes, you do end up stuck with 'what's it for?' questions.

Looking at the suggestions:

G'Quanth Brawler - the hull design of the G'Quan means that it feels wrong (to me) to have broadside beam weapons. Nothing wrong with the ship breakers for power - might suggest a closer range - but other than that, fine.

G'Quanth Sniper

A G'Kar is a ship name that's almost obviously missing. A missile cruiser is something nice - Although two identical torp batteries seems a bit odd. Is one supposed to be a different arc?

Be careful, though, because this ship treads on the Apollo's toes, and treads on them HARD. granted, it's only hull 5 (why? It's still a Narn heavy cruiser hull....) but an ion torpedo is essentially an advanced missile rack without ammo options. 12 AD plus a shedload of energy mines qualifies as 'a touch harsh'.

Nonetheless, it strikes me as the most obvious gap in the narn fleet - no narn ship is primarily precise-armed.


Alternatively, if you want to make a new-generation brawler....try upping all the ion cannon to heavy pulse cannon - the major complaint has always been the range of secondaries, so fit some decent ones! The narn definitely have them (G'Sten), with heavy plasma cannon (T'loth) for backups. The result is a ship not entirely unlike the octurian, but without fighters and more durable. And possibly with energy mines.

 

[H]

Oh, damn. Forgot the G'Tal.

So yes, you do end up stuck with 'what's it for?' questions.

Looking at the suggestions:

G'Quanth Brawler - the hull design of the G'Quan means that it feels wrong (to me) to have broadside beam weapons. Nothing wrong with the ship breakers for power - might suggest a closer range - but other than that, fine.

G'Quanth Sniper

A G'Kar is a ship name that's almost obviously missing. A missile cruiser is something nice - Although two identical torp batteries seems a bit odd. Is one supposed to be a different arc?

Be careful, though, because this ship treads on the Apollo's toes, and treads on them HARD. granted, it's only hull 5 (why? It's still a Narn heavy cruiser hull....) but an ion torpedo is essentially an advanced missile rack without ammo options. 12 AD plus a shedload of energy mines qualifies as 'a touch harsh'.

Nonetheless, it strikes me as the most obvious gap in the narn fleet - no narn ship is primarily precise-armed.


Alternatively, if you want to make a new-generation brawler....try upping all the ion cannon to heavy pulse cannon - the major complaint has always been the range of secondaries, so fit some decent ones! The narn definitely have them (G'Sten), with heavy plasma cannon (T'loth) for backups. The result is a ship not entirely unlike the octurian, but without fighters and more durable. And possibly with energy mines.

no, the two seperate torpedoes is purely a small amount of redundancy in loosing a weapon system, but then it gets hit a bit harder with -AD rolls. As to the hull 5, it was to balance out the fact it was a long range sniper, so shouldn't need the heaviest armour, it was also designed as a next gen ship origionally, so wasn't a G'Quan hull. Imagine it as a dag kar on steroids and of course, comparisons with the appollo are well justified. . with only one potent arc, and hull 5 to offset it's obvious forward firepower advantage

as to the design philosophies and whether it can support a beam or not, the idea was just to take existing weaponry and make a ship that had somethign different enough to the Bin'Tak for people to consider it. by just improving the normal secondaries, you don't offer different as such, you just offer bigger range becoming a primus kind of thing ;-)

 

[Ripple]

did we really need a bigger Dag'Kar though?

Yes it switches the E-mine to torp ratio, but it is a often questioned ship and this is close to it.

Just saying that's something to consider too.

Ripple

 

[H]

yup, but I'm just throwing ideas out there for a way to make the G'Quanth a distinct ship, you could also consider my previous "super" carrier althoguh being a G'Quan varient It would get toned down.

personally, I think people overreact to the Dag Kar,anyway, it's a mere kitten compared to it's first incarnation.

 

[Foxmeister]

Why not? It's the "end of season sale" on e-mines after all at the moment with every other race getting in on the act. I think it only fair that the Narn get a few more.......

Regards,

Dave

 

[Tzarevitch]

The problem is the G'Quonth is really a rules artifact from the AoG B5Wars. It doesn't really have a purpose in ACtA. It doesn't have a role.

I tried making changes to it to make it useful but every change you make causes it to look like some other Narn ship.

Make it a long-range ion torp cruiser and it looks like a bigger Dag'Kar. Improve its beams it itsn't all that different in role from a G'Lan, Bin'Tak or a G'Vrahn (both of whom have a mag gun). E-mines? G'Vrahn beats it at War and it would have to be mighty good to be better that 2 Dag'Kars at battle. The ship simply doesn't do anything different that the Narn actually need. The only role that isn't really filled is a proper carrier.

The ship is like the G'Quan version in B5W that replaced e-mines with heavy pulse cannon. That version rocked because the B5W e-mines rather sucked. In ACtA such a ship isn't all that useful as the e-mines are more capable and far longer ranged than heavy pulse cannon.

The same is true of the G'Quonth. The ship was a G'Quan mainly trading the fighters for ion torps. The B5W version which used points was a bit more expensive than a G'Quan but was still worth the purchase. In ACtA that increase kicks a ship that was mediocre at Battle proprity (the base G'Quan) to War priority where it is badly outclassed by the Bin'Tak and the G'Vrahn.

Honestly, other than making it a small fleet carrier, I am not sure there is a role for the G'Quonth that will differentiate it from stuff the Narn already have.

Tzarevitch

 

[Ripple]

The 'end of season sale' comment cracked me up, sadly it's also true. Did we really need all this AoE crap...

Carrier idea would be nice... or maybe an anti-fighter cruiser... give it escort and accurate but weak weapons? They don't need one due to e-mines/pulsar mines... but at least a different flavor.

Maybe a two jump engine cruiser? The 'Escape Cruiser' =)... not very Narn I know, but eh...

Or maybe a torp cruiser that doesn't include extra mines... Maybe something with longer range to the sides? Area denial cruiser?

Ripple

 

[CZuschlag]

did we really need a bigger Dag'Kar though?

Yes it switches the E-mine to torp ratio, but it is a often questioned ship and this is close to it.

Just saying that's something to consider too.

Ripple

That's the reason I really dislike this incarnation. I really don't want to see this ship as specified on the table. Ever.

 

[locarno24]

G'Quanth Attack Cruiser
Unlike the classic G'Quan hull, the G'Quanth is designed as a close-ranged brawler, able to simultaneously engage several opponents by trading its hangar deck and most of its main guns for massive batteries of heavy pulse cannon covering every arc.
The variant was developed shortly after the Narn Regime joined the Interstellar Alliance, in an attempt to incorporate the new technologies into older hulls, and the G'Quanth gains a lot from this effort - its drive systems are significantly more powerful and its EA-derived heavy pulse cannon outrange the secondary weapons normally fitted on Narn ships.
The design - not that the Kha'Ri's Design Bureau would ever admit it - was largely inspired by the Centauri battlecruiser and battleship configurations that inflicted heavy losses on the Regime's fleet, and has proved very succesful against opponents who employ swarms of smaller ships.

G'Quanth Attack Cruiser
Name: Class/PL: G'Quanth Attack Cruiser / Battle
Crew Quality: Troops: 6
Speed: 7 In Service: 2252+
Turns: 1/45º Craft: -
Hull: 6 Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 3
Jump Engine
Lumbering
Damage: 65 / 13 Crew: 80 / 19

Energy Mines - 30" - 6AD - Forwards - AP, TD, EM, OS
Heavy Pulse Cannon - 12" - 10AD - Forwards - TL
Heavy Plasma Cannon - 15" - 6AD - Forwards - AP, DD

Heavy Pulse Cannon - 12" - 10AD - Port - TL
Heavy Plasma Cannon - 15" - 4 AD - Port - AP, DD

Heavy Pulse Cannon - 12" - 10 AD - Starboard - TL
Heavy Plasma Cannon - 15" - 4 AD - Starboard - AP, DD

Heavy Pulse Cannon - 12" - 6 AD - Aft - TL





Alternatively



G'Quanth Attack Carrier
The G'Quanth is a modified G'Quan hull, developed to offer the Narn fleet a true fighter command capabilty (unlike the older and unsophisticated T'Rann, which is little more than a hyperspace-capable fighter transport). The ship includes a great deal of sophisticated technology bought through the Interstellar Alliance from the EA and the Cascor, and the resulting ship is able to co-ordinate fighter operations across a sizeable engagement. It is true that the G'Quanth's fighter complement is low for a fleet carrier, but that is because the Narn Design Bureau refused to compromise on firepower. As a result the ship still maintains a fearsome array of forward weaponry, and woe betide the enemy who mistakes the G'Quanth for a helpless support carrier!

G'Quanth Attack Cruiser
Name: Class/PL: G'Quanth Attack Carrier/ Battle
Crew Quality: Troops: 4
Speed: 6 In Service: 2252+
Turns: 1/45º Craft: Frazi (4)
Hull: 6 Special Rules: Anti-Fighter 3
Jump Engine
Lumbering
Fleet Carrier
Damage: 65 / 13 Crew: 80 / 19

Energy Mines - 30" - 6AD - Forwards - AP, TD, EM, OS
Medium Laser Cannon - 18" - 4AD - Boresight - B, DD
Light Ion Cannon - 8" - 5 - Forwards - TL
Light Pulse Cannon - 8" - 3 - Forwards

Light Ion Cannon - 8" - 5 - Port - TL
Light Pulse Cannon - 8" - 3 - Port

Light Ion Cannon - 8" - 5 - Starboard - TL
Light Pulse Cannon - 8" - 3 - Starboard

Light Ion Cannon - 8" - 5 - Aft - TL
Light Pulse Cannon - 8" - 3 - Aft

 

[H]

did we really need a bigger Dag'Kar though?

Yes it switches the E-mine to torp ratio, but it is a often questioned ship and this is close to it.

Just saying that's something to consider too.

Ripple

That's the reason I really dislike this incarnation. I really don't want to see this ship as specified on the table. Ever.

yeah but you dislike 90% of the game anyway ;-)