Yet another ship poll, the DEMOS!

[Lord David the Denied]

Right. Seems we understand each other... for once... :wink:

 

[David Anla Shok']

Right. Seems we understand each other... for once... :wink:

Can't have that. Time for name calling then?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I think so... you colonial peasant! :wink:

 

[David Anla Shok']

I think so... you colonial peasant! :wink:

Imperialist dog! There, that should do it....

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Much better... :lol:

 

[Stonehorse]

For a skirmish level ship it is very powerful, I wish my Minbari had something half as good as the Demos for their Skirmish choice.

If I played Centarui they would make up a vast portion of my fleet... even if I lost I'd still be happy at the amount of Ion Cannon dice I'd be throwing around.

 

[Ripple]

Been on vacation a week without any connection... nice to see no rants faltered while I was gone...

Did we come to any agreement on the Demos... -2 AD ions? -4 AD ions? no interceptor?

(aside to David Anla Shok - missed your reply two pages back or before I left... lots of ships I think are fine thank you =)... I just always try to get a feel for what various groups think of as baseline for over the top vs underpowered. Helps keep the chatter civil. Some groups like a PL to cover a wide range of capability, others what a tight range.)

Ripple

 

[thehod]

I have had 3 squadrons of mixed 2 vorchan/2 Demos in 1 turn vape a Drakh mothership. No joke. It was an alpha strike from Hell.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Either that, or just say the upgraded fire control sensors allows the ion cannons to be used as interceptors. That's what we see on screen, the dorsal turret firing to shoot down missiles.

But that is also what we see with Omegas and Hyperions, "interceptor" fire coming from the main guns. It was somebody at AoG who falsely started the notion that interceptors are extra turrets too small to see on the models.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Yet Sheridan clearly orders "interceptors" to fire when the Primus attacks the station. He doesn't say anything about switching weapons to defensive mode.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Yet Sheridan clearly orders "interceptors" to fire when the Primus attacks the station. He doesn't say anything about switching weapons to defensive mode.

I'm not disputing that, I'm talking about the warships

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I only recall seeing an Omega fire interceptors once, in which case it seemed to be firing the Phalanx defence pods' guns...

 

[emperorpenguin]

I only recall seeing an Omega fire interceptors once, in which case it seemed to be firing the Phalanx defence pods' guns...

We see the EAS Hyperion and numerous Omega class vessels using their main guns to intercept incoming fire.
The only reference to ship-board interceptors is the "forward interceptors on the Clarkstown are down"

We see that EA ships' weapons are at least dual mode (laser and pulse). I firmly believe that there is a third, defensive mode, or this is simply a by-product of the pulse mode. I don't agree with the tiny/invisible interceptor idea myself.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

You got images of clips of these events? I don't remember them... :?

 

[emperorpenguin]

You got images of clips of these events? I don't remember them... :?

For the EAS Hyperion watch "A Voice in the Wilderness part 2"

Watch "Severed Dreams" for the Omegas

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Severed Dreams is the one I was thinking of. I think I vaguely recall the Hyperion shooting down enemy fire, actually. It's been a while.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Severed Dreams is the one I was thinking of. I think I vaguely recall the Hyperion shooting down enemy fire, actually. It's been a while.

The Hyperion uses its turrets to shoot down incoming fire from the 3 part alien ship

The Omegas on both sides are blocking each other's fire

 

[Triggy]

I am quite literally amazed more of you don't find the Demos to be totally broken. It is quite literally one of the two most potent skirmish level ships in the game. It is fast, manuverable, high close-in and potent ranged firepower. Plus an incterceptor!

You can concentrate fire with its torpedos, then fly away or close blast doors while they re-load. And its speed aloows it go jsutabout anywhere you need it to go.

I don't think the number of attack dice on their close support weaponry makes much difference - they are rarely needed. I would quite happily still take them if they had NO ion canons. And I'd gladly play a five point battle taking ONLY demos and challenge anyone to beat me.

They are broken broken broken.

Nasty? Yes. Dangerous? Yes. Broken? I don't think so....

I have to come in with Zulu01 here. You admit the Demos is nasty and dangerous. Moreso than other skirmish ships. This is where the the granularity of the PL system as opposed to a points based system causes problems. The Demos is a stronger choice than any other skirmish PL ship I can think of. It has the firepower to damage large targets. It has the speed and manouvrability to ensure it can usually shoot at what it wants and it is also tougher than most skirmish PL ships.

Simply put, if the Demos is better than any other skirmish PL ship then by definition it is broken since all skirmish PL ships should be equal (not identical but equal).

I have yet to see a Demos horde fleet convincingly beaten. I am planning to try breaching pods but that is resorting to a paper-scissors-stone solution. If the Demos is just another skirmish PL ship then most races should be able to put together a fleet of skirmish PL ships that should be able to do just as well. Simply put, I have never seen it done and I am afraid I doubt it can be.

Keep watching the tournement scene as this is the best place to see which ships are overpowered. Matt has already admitted that Gaim seem to be doing disproportionally well in tournements which is confirmation of what many people on this board seem to feel. I think the results will show the Demos hunting pack will consistently appear in the top rankings.

Well aside from my beating all three (almost-)all Demos fleets in my four games of a tourney (with Third Age EA), they wiped the floor with anything not Gaim.

The firepower of the torpedoes is actually about the same overall as the matter cannon on the Vorchan (including range as a factor) and that's why I feel the AD needs to drop by 4 as it has the Interceptor as well. Most Demos fleets close to 20" all together, hammer one or two ships with their torpedoes then cruise in on CBD next turn. This is a pretty standard tactic and more than that, it works. After this, the fight can be pretty variable but if they're facing anything other than a fleet with Interceptors, their opponents are doomed.

The Demos is the second best Skirmish ship in the game and almost by definition this makes it "broken". Hell, the Vorchan is probably marginally above the curve as it is and the Demos is better!

 

[katadder]

how is 6AD SAP P every other turn as good as 4AD SAP DD every turn? ok the range is 20" compared to 12" but with the vorchans speed that makes no real differance. the demos has the interceptor to level things between them.
yes it needs to lose 2AD down to the same as the vorchans, however 4AD is going too far and will leave people only taking vorchans.
lets not have a knee jerk reaction too far the other direction.

 

[Triggy]

The range makes a huge difference as I pointed out in my post above. It fundamentally changes the tactics you can use with the Demos. Also, a Precise weapon is about 75% as effective as a Double Damage weapon in terms of Damage/Crew inflicted and that's not even counting the effects of the extra criticals. Slow-Loading does not make a weapon 50% as effective, more like 66%. Just ask yourself, would you rather have a first turn barrage (doing all of your damage before your opponent can fire back, let alone fire back for turn 2) or have your firepower evenly spread out with half the AD but no Slow-Loading? Add to this the CBD you can do with no penalty and the extra range on the torpedoes, they end up about as good as the matter cannon.

how is 6AD SAP P every other turn as good as 4AD SAP DD every turn? ok the range is 20" compared to 12" but with the vorchans speed that makes no real differance.

THAT is how I can say they're as good as each other.