Would a far/free trader ever use missiles?

As I said, Mongoose's editorial processes sometimes fail to keep the distinction between settings and rules intact. They are getting better about this and have expressed a desire to do even better going forward.

The Type A actually predates Charted Space. So that's kind of a chicken & egg sort of thing.

Anyway, if you want to bend Charted Space to suit Mongoose's rules, that's fine. That's what IMTU is all about. But nobody is lying to you about Charted Space because Mongoose changed the rules.

As an aside, before you invest too heavily in calculations based on Importance, keep in mind what it doesn't do: take into consideration trading partners. A world with the Imperial Capital's stats has the same Importance and derived stats whether it is the center of the Third Imperium or a world in the middle of the Great Rift, more than 8 parsecs from any other.
 
<pedant mode on>
DETECTION
Starships can detect other ships at a range of approximately a half million miles
(500 inches). Military vessels and scouts have detection ranges out to two million
miles (2000 inches).
Ships which are maintaining complete silence cannot be detected at distances of
greater than 100,000 miles; ships in orbit around a world and also maintaining complete
silence cannot be detected at distances greater than 10,000 miles. Planetary
masses and stars will completely conceal a ship from detection.

DETECTION
Ordinary or commercial starships can detect other ships out to a range of about
one-half light-second; about 1,500 millimeters. Military and scout starships have
detection ranges out to two light-seconds; 6,000 mm or 6 meters.
Ships which are maintaining complete silence cannot be detected at distances of
greater than half detection range; ships in orbit around a world and also maintaining
complete silence cannot be detected at distances greater than one-eighth detection
range. Planetary masses and stars will completely conceal a ship from detection.
Tracking: Once a vessel has been detected, it can be tracked by anyone up to
three light-seconds (about 9,000 mm, or 9 meters).
</pedant mode>

CT didn't have detectable jump emergence or transponders mentioned in core books.
lol. Thanks. I was searching around for "sensors" and stuff in the ship building rules. Completely missed that in Bk 2. I remember there had been something in miniatures scale, but since I didn't find it I mistakenly assumed it must have come from one of the wargames. Oops.
 
No worries :)

The points I made at the end were the real reason for the post.

CT there was no jump emergence "flash" mentioned, certainly no way to detect it.

Which reminds me, how does the pirate detect the inbound jump merchant at 100D if its sensors don't have the range?

Transponders do get a mention later in the CT setting, a transponder should be broadcasting an easily detectable signal at all times.
 
Which reminds me, how does the pirate detect the inbound jump merchant at 100D if its sensors don't have the range?

Transponders do get a mention later in the CT setting, a transponder should be broadcasting an easily detectable signal at all times.
Mongoose's Mole-vision rules for spacecraft do have a variety of implications if you want to actually use them.
 
<pedant mode on>
DETECTION
Starships can detect other ships at a range of approximately a half million miles
(500 inches). Military vessels and scouts have detection ranges out to two million
miles (2000 inches).
Ships which are maintaining complete silence cannot be detected at distances of
greater than 100,000 miles; ships in orbit around a world and also maintaining complete
silence cannot be detected at distances greater than 10,000 miles. Planetary
masses and stars will completely conceal a ship from detection.

DETECTION
Ordinary or commercial starships can detect other ships out to a range of about
one-half light-second; about 1,500 millimeters. Military and scout starships have
detection ranges out to two light-seconds; 6,000 mm or 6 meters.
Ships which are maintaining complete silence cannot be detected at distances of
greater than half detection range; ships in orbit around a world and also maintaining
complete silence cannot be detected at distances greater than one-eighth detection
range. Planetary masses and stars will completely conceal a ship from detection.
Tracking: Once a vessel has been detected, it can be tracked by anyone up to
three light-seconds (about 9,000 mm, or 9 meters).
</pedant mode>

CT didn't have detectable jump emergence or transponders mentioned in core books.
These seem to contradict each other slightly.

The Book 2 (second) reference puts civilian ships sensors out to 150,000 km but only 75,000 if the other ship is running silent. Ships orbiting and silent cannot be detected beyond 19,000 km by civilian sensors. These don't seem much better than Mongoose sensors (but useful extra information about interference). It also give military sensors greater range (4x) rather than just making them easier to use which seems appropriate.

I couldn't find the first reference.
 
CT there was no jump emergence "flash" mentioned, certainly no way to detect it.

Which reminds me, how does the pirate detect the inbound jump merchant at 100D if its sensors don't have the range?

Transponders do get a mention later in the CT setting, a transponder should be broadcasting an easily detectable signal at all times.
MGT2 does use jump flash (in High Guard) and those are the sensor rules I have been referring to and using. The pirate doesn't need to actually sense it's vector as it is highly likely to be heading to the planet and the intercept point can be determined broadly from that. At the intercept it can more accurately determine its vector and fins a firing solution.
 
MGT2 does use jump flash (in High Guard) and those are the sensor rules I have been referring to and using. The pirate doesn't need to actually sense it's vector as it is highly likely to be heading to the planet and the intercept point can be determined broadly from that. At the intercept it can more accurately determine its vector and fins a firing solution.
How can it sense the jump flash if the sensors are limited to the range MgT states? At 100D the sensor flash is well beyond sensor range. How does it know there is a merchant anywhere at all?
 
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These seem to contradict each other slightly.
Of course they do, this is Traveller. If you want consistency this is not the game fore you :)
The Book 2 (second) reference puts civilian ships sensors out to 150,000 km but only 75,000 if the other ship is running silent. Ships orbiting and silent cannot be detected beyond 19,000 km by civilian sensors. These don't seem much better than Mongoose sensors (but useful extra information about interference). It also give military sensors greater range (4x) rather than just making them easier to use which seems appropriate.

I couldn't find the first reference.
The first is 77 edution, hence the use of miles and the scale in inches. The second is 81 edition and we are now metric and the scale is in mm.
 
As an aside, before you invest too heavily in calculations based on Importance, keep in mind what it doesn't do: take into consideration trading partners. A world with the Imperial Capital's stats has the same Importance and derived stats whether it is the center of the Third Imperium or a world in the middle of the Great Rift, more than 8 parsecs from any other.
There do seem to be modifications depending on the WTN and other factors. If I ever go to the centre of the TI I might calculate it but it's a long way from the Collace Arm :)
 
How can it sense the jump flash if the sensors are limited to the range MgT states? At 100D the sensor flash is well beyond sensor range. How does it know there is a merchant anywhere at all?
Jump flash is detectable over 5,000,000 Km (MGT2 Highguard p22). At that range it can tell if it is under 10,000 tons and worth a punt. If the ship decides to hang out at the jump point, the pirate will miss it. If the ship decides to go somewhere else the pirate will miss it. If the ship is not a trader the pirate better hope that it can miss it, but until it actually gets to hailing range it has not committed to the attack.

Long before that point (300,000 Km) it will know the basic outline and as it gets closer it will learn more. It knows where the ship emerged and can guess it's course (but not necessarily its velocity). Aim along that line and you will eventually cross it's path. Since the pirate didn't jump the incoming ship doesn't get that start point as a clue.
 
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No, neither the WTN, the Importance value, nor the ship arrival tables actually require that there be anywhere for ships and trade to come from. There's a note in the Importance section that basically says "Toss this number and replace it with something that makes sense as needed".

WTN is simply Pop + TL Mod + Starport Mod. Nothing else.

Importance is ALSO based on Pop/TL/Starport but with a couple extra modifiers for trade codes and bases in system.

They are pretty useful tools for comparing things once you've determined that everything in your pile is an apple, not an orange. But ultimately, you have to decide where and how they apply and how much to massage them, because there is a lot of other factors that would apply.
 
I made a Q-Ship out of a Type R Subsidized Merchant like was suggested here. I made two medium anti piracy fighters with thrust 9 and reaction thrust 6 to pounce on them and a pair of 30-ton Marine boarding pods with ten Marines in battle dress in each with the same thrust profile to board.

If they covertly let them out the back of the ship and block the pirate from seeing them with the ship’s bulk, they have the same acceleration profile as an advanced missile and can be on a pirate at long or closer range before they can fire, except point defense. Lure them in and pounce.
 
I made a Q-Ship out of a Type R Subsidized Merchant like was suggested here. I made two medium anti piracy fighters with thrust 9 and reaction thrust 6 to pounce on them and a pair of 30-ton Marine boarding pods with ten Marines in battle dress in each with the same thrust profile to board.

If they covertly let them out the back of the ship and block the pirate from seeing them with the ship’s bulk, they have the same acceleration profile as an advanced missile and can be on a pirate at long or closer range before they can fire, except point defense. Lure them in and pounce.
Yeah, there's lots of problems with this style of piracy. Your ship has to be hanging out in space between the planet and the 100D limit without anyone bothering it. Your target ship has to arrive in the same hemisphere as you or the planet will block the flash. There is then about a million km between "ooh, a jump flash" and "can vaguely discern what that ship is". You have to remain unbothered while accelerating on a course any computer can determine is an intercept, which means you have to mysteriously remain unnoticed while running active sensors and thrust. Then even if it's not a Q-ship, you have the usual issues of matching vectors, disabling the ship, boarding and transferring cargo, etc when the target has had plenty of time to build up velocity.

If this is a complete backwater where the local planet can't provide any anti piracy defenses, the trade is going to be armed free traders or the like. They'll fight back. And they aren't going to stroll down the yellow brick road straight at the starport when they can take a funky route to juke these blind intercepts. M-Drives mean fuel conservation isn't an issue and it is rare that the difference between 5 hours and 6 hours would outweigh safety issues.

And if you are wrong and it is Q-ship or whatever...that's the end of your career because you are deep in a jump shadow when all this goes down.
 
Jump flash is detectable over 5,000,000 Km (MGT2 Highguard p22). At that range it can tell if it is under 10,000 tons and worth a punt. If the ship decides to hang out at the jump point, the pirate will miss it. If the ship decides to go somewhere else the pirate will miss it. If the ship is not a trader the pirate better hope that it can miss it, but until it actually gets to hailing range it has not committed to the attack.

Long before that point (300,000 Km) it will know the basic outline and as it gets closer it will learn more. It knows where the ship emerged and can guess it's course (but not necessarily its velocity). Aim along that line and you will eventually cross it's path. Since the pirate didn't jump the incoming ship doesn't get that start point as a clue.
That makes no sense at all.
 
I made a Q-Ship out of a Type R Subsidized Merchant like was suggested here. I made two medium anti piracy fighters with thrust 9 and reaction thrust 6 to pounce on them and a pair of 30-ton Marine boarding pods with ten Marines in battle dress in each with the same thrust profile to board.

If they covertly let them out the back of the ship and block the pirate from seeing them with the ship’s bulk, they have the same acceleration profile as an advanced missile and can be on a pirate at long or closer range before they can fire, except point defense. Lure them in and pounce.
How are your marines withstanding the full 15G acceleration? According to MGT2 only the 9G thrust from the manoeuvre drive is compensated. I am not sure when GLOC is but 6G sounds like a lot for an extended period (i.e. 10's of minute rather than 10's of seconds).

Nevertheless I would hope a Type R specially converted to anti-piracy would be effective against a pirate. I am not sure that you can prevent them from firing though. Simply arriving in a ship going at a gazzilion miles an hour doesn't mean you can actually do anything with those marines. Missiles don't need to stop and force entry to board a ship.

Wouldn't you be better just using advanced missiles yourself? It would save 20 marines being splattered on a ships hull.
 
Yeah, there's lots of problems with this style of piracy. Your ship has to be hanging out in space between the planet and the 100D limit without anyone bothering it. Your target ship has to arrive in the same hemisphere as you or the planet will block the flash. There is then about a million km between "ooh, a jump flash" and "can vaguely discern what that ship is". You have to remain unbothered while accelerating on a course any computer can determine is an intercept, which means you have to mysteriously remain unnoticed while running active sensors and thrust. Then even if it's not a Q-ship, you have the usual issues of matching vectors, disabling the ship, boarding and transferring cargo, etc when the target has had plenty of time to build up velocity.

If this is a complete backwater where the local planet can't provide any anti piracy defenses, the trade is going to be armed free traders or the like. They'll fight back. And they aren't going to stroll down the yellow brick road straight at the starport when they can take a funky route to juke these blind intercepts. M-Drives mean fuel conservation isn't an issue and it is rare that the difference between 5 hours and 6 hours would outweigh safety issues.

And if you are wrong and it is Q-ship or whatever...that's the end of your career because you are deep in a jump shadow when all this goes down.
Everything but the same hemisphere part. The planetary shadow is a conical section of 1D at the "top" and 2D at the bottom, 100D in the other direction from the flash.
 
No, neither the WTN, the Importance value, nor the ship arrival tables actually require that there be anywhere for ships and trade to come from. There's a note in the Importance section that basically says "Toss this number and replace it with something that makes sense as needed".

WTN is simply Pop + TL Mod + Starport Mod. Nothing else.

Importance is ALSO based on Pop/TL/Starport but with a couple extra modifiers for trade codes and bases in system.

They are pretty useful tools for comparing things once you've determined that everything in your pile is an apple, not an orange. But ultimately, you have to decide where and how they apply and how much to massage them, because there is a lot of other factors that would apply.
But the entire cargo transporting system is based on the type of starport and nothing to do with what is actually nearby. Far Trader did add a modifier based on whether a complementary system was nearby, but it wasn't much.

If you have an A class Starport 6 hexes from anything else there must be something there and it will have exactly the same trade commodities as any other class A Starport. And anyone trading within 3 hexes of that isolated Class A starport needs to buy everything there because it is the only game in town. Therefore why wouldn't it have high importance.

Like the rest of the trade system, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it is at least internally consistent. The whole point of the empire is to protect this nonsensical trade system. It must be like that for a reason (it's just beyond the understanding of 20th century economists).
 
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