Worst rule in the whole game
- Thread starter Poi
- Start date
Court Jester said:Burger said:
Subs were never meant to fight subs... Obviously you don't understand how the PL system is meant to work...!!
:roll:
:wink:
Thats in RL, but whats stopping two opponents turning up with them? What about a tourney, and two opponents have fleets consisting of only subs. You refuse them a game
Court Jester
Mongoose
Reaverman said:Court Jester said:Burger said:
Subs were never meant to fight subs... Obviously you don't understand how the PL system is meant to work...!!
:roll:
Thats in RL, but whats stopping two opponents turning up with them? What about a tourney, and two opponents have fleets consisting of only subs. You refuse them a game
small meek voice...
I was only joking....
Indeed I agree totally... I was just passing comment on this idea that the PL system is this mystical thing that half of us deadbeats do not understand...
I would not refuse a game to anyone at a tounament... no sir...
EDIT: what is this "real Life" you talk of?
Soulmage
Mongoose
Despite having played numerous games at large point levels. I have only seen that happen once. Ironically, it was to the Hood. But by that point she was already so battered it was pretty much irrelevant anyway.
I think the potential of that happening is important to have in the game.
I think the potential of that happening is important to have in the game.
Court Jester
Mongoose
Soulmage said:
So that you can plan for it?
So that you can carefully manuver you ships to avoid it?
So you can see it coming and react accordingly?
So that you can loose the game in the first volly of dice rolls?
Its one of those things that seems funky until it looses you a game on turn one or two. Having it happen to your battered battleship that has been slogging it out with the enemy for a while is all good and maybe even appropriot. But having it happen at ranges of over 30" on turn 1...
/me shudders
I think somthing like 5-6 D6 damage would be more fun... still capable of scoring that killing blow but wont ruin a game on turn 1.
Either way I understand why it is in the game... Just every now and then it will screw up your evenings gaming but less so in a campaign game I guess...
Perhaps it shouldnt happen to the "modern" battleships with their armoured decks ?
My knolwedge is shaky but isnt Hood a stretched Queen Elizabeth so has thinner armour . Also She never got the badly needed refit which would have improved her protection outside her immunity zone.
Perhaps "Armoured Deck" should cause a re-roll so if you roll double 6 again well suck it and see
My knolwedge is shaky but isnt Hood a stretched Queen Elizabeth so has thinner armour . Also She never got the badly needed refit which would have improved her protection outside her immunity zone.
Perhaps "Armoured Deck" should cause a re-roll so if you roll double 6 again well suck it and see
Court Jester said:Reaverman said:Court Jester said:Subs were never meant to fight subs... Obviously you don't understand how the PL system is meant to work...!!
:roll:
Thats in RL, but whats stopping two opponents turning up with them? What about a tourney, and two opponents have fleets consisting of only subs. You refuse them a game
small meek voice...
I was only joking....
Indeed I agree totally... I was just passing comment on this idea that the PL system is this mystical thing that half of us deadbeats do not understand...
I would not refuse a game to anyone at a tounament... no sir...
EDIT: what is this "real Life" you talk of?
Yeah mate, I knew what you meant
..... I was just pulling your chain
Soulmage
Mongoose
No. . . exactly the opposite!
So that there exists a chance that no matter how perfect your battleplan, no matter how perfect your tactics, some freakish incident could happen that could throw the whole affair into the hands of your opponent so that you are struggling to come back, or beat a fighting retreat in a campaign game. This kind of thing happens in real life, why shouldn't it in a game?
This is possible. . . but unlikely. Usually they will tend to happen later in the game when it could throw an already decided contest into doubt! Surely that is more fun!
If it does happen in the first turn or two. . . so what? Just start over!
In my case. . . it did happen on Turn 2. . . but as I mentioned the Hood was already so far gone at that point it had little actual effect on the game!
Soulmage
Mongoose
As far as the argument that goes:
". . . but what if it happens in the first turn of a TOURNAMENT game?"
So what?? Them's the breaks? Its got an equal chance of happening to everybody. If your number happens to be up. . . so be it.
Anybody who thinks that tournament victories for any game involving dice don't bear a high correlation to luck (or random chance depending on your outlook) is kidding themselves.
Having played probably a couple hundred tournaments of various game systems, I can tell you with authority that in order to win a tournament you must:
1. Be one of the better players there
2. Not make any stupid tactical blunders that are not made up for by freakish good die luck
3. Get a lucky w/ easy pickings for opponents in the early rounds that allows you to score big points (if doing more than simple win/loss) instead of playing the top competitors in the state every round, thereby reducing your points lead
4. Not suffer any freakish bad die luck
5. Bring the right forces for the missions/objectives
6. Not encounter an opponent who brought exactly what was needed to counter what you brought
Unless you get all 6 of these things, your chances of winning a tournament are very slim.
Of these you will note several have NOTHING to do with your tactical ability and are luck/random.
If you want a "pure" game where the best player always wins. . . play chess! (Or some other game w/o random chance involved!)
If you're willing to accept random chance as part of the tournament equation, then whether that is a spectacular explosion in the first (or later) rounds of a game. . . or a slow lingering death due to "cold" dice all day. . the result is the same and you shouldn't split hairs about what is "good" and what is "the worst rule of the game."
". . . but what if it happens in the first turn of a TOURNAMENT game?"
So what?? Them's the breaks? Its got an equal chance of happening to everybody. If your number happens to be up. . . so be it.
Anybody who thinks that tournament victories for any game involving dice don't bear a high correlation to luck (or random chance depending on your outlook) is kidding themselves.
Having played probably a couple hundred tournaments of various game systems, I can tell you with authority that in order to win a tournament you must:
1. Be one of the better players there
2. Not make any stupid tactical blunders that are not made up for by freakish good die luck
3. Get a lucky w/ easy pickings for opponents in the early rounds that allows you to score big points (if doing more than simple win/loss) instead of playing the top competitors in the state every round, thereby reducing your points lead
4. Not suffer any freakish bad die luck
5. Bring the right forces for the missions/objectives
6. Not encounter an opponent who brought exactly what was needed to counter what you brought
Unless you get all 6 of these things, your chances of winning a tournament are very slim.
Of these you will note several have NOTHING to do with your tactical ability and are luck/random.
If you want a "pure" game where the best player always wins. . . play chess! (Or some other game w/o random chance involved!)
If you're willing to accept random chance as part of the tournament equation, then whether that is a spectacular explosion in the first (or later) rounds of a game. . . or a slow lingering death due to "cold" dice all day. . the result is the same and you shouldn't split hairs about what is "good" and what is "the worst rule of the game."
Court Jester
Mongoose
Having been a hardcore card player I cannot say you have told me anything new...
The simple fact is that for a competative game luck will always be an element. But a game will always be better if does not include such gamestate altering effects.
You are right in one way though... if it happens in the first turn you can just start again. What would suck is if it happens mid game when the scales are balanced and things are tight and suddenly you go from being in contention to having lost for no reason other than your opponent got VERY lucky.
You see there is being lucky and unlucky with the dice and having you plans dashed by poor dice... but there are some effects (like this crit result) that give luck too much power. If you like luck to have such an inluence why not just play yahtzee?
I'm not sure why I am arguing though as to be honest I don't care either way for the rule... I think I just enjoy the bait and chase.
The simple fact is that for a competative game luck will always be an element. But a game will always be better if does not include such gamestate altering effects.
You are right in one way though... if it happens in the first turn you can just start again. What would suck is if it happens mid game when the scales are balanced and things are tight and suddenly you go from being in contention to having lost for no reason other than your opponent got VERY lucky.
You see there is being lucky and unlucky with the dice and having you plans dashed by poor dice... but there are some effects (like this crit result) that give luck too much power. If you like luck to have such an inluence why not just play yahtzee?
I'm not sure why I am arguing though as to be honest I don't care either way for the rule... I think I just enjoy the bait and chase.
Fitzwalrus
Mongoose
Every set of WWII naval rules I've played in the last 30+ years has had some provision for "catastrophic magazine explosion", probably due to the fate of the Hood and lingering memories of the British battlecruiser line at Jutland.
While it's certainly a pain in the rear when it happens to you, I don't think it can really be categorized as "the worst rule in the game".... there are loads of other nominees for that honor! :twisted:
While it's certainly a pain in the rear when it happens to you, I don't think it can really be categorized as "the worst rule in the game".... there are loads of other nominees for that honor! :twisted:
andrewgpaul
Mongoose
Joe_Dracos said:
In that case, play A Call To Arms - it doesn't have the instant-death critical hit result.
Hammer of Ulric, if your battleship sank on the first die roll, why didn't you just set up again and play a new game?
in fact, A call to arms used to have 2 inst-death crits, a reactor explosion (crew death) and catastrophic explosion (hull to zero). They were toned down in SFOS. something that may happen here eventually. Myself, I'm not aginst the insta-kill, but I agree it stinks when it happens to you.
Chern
Chern
How do you say "There's something wrong with our bloody ships today" in Russian? :lol:
What could you have done? Well for one, stretch your arms while doing your best impression of a tall lanky furball while your friend tells your opponent "I have a new strategy. Let the Wookie win" :wink:.
In my first game of heroScape, I used Svarris (an elven archer) and shot my buddy's Deathwalker 9000 (a battleship on two legs)- first shot- blink! Wait!, I get two shots with this figure- I rolled the only thing that could damage it, and it fell into a pile of junk. He was not pleased :roll: .
What could you have done? Well for one, stretch your arms while doing your best impression of a tall lanky furball while your friend tells your opponent "I have a new strategy. Let the Wookie win" :wink:.
In my first game of heroScape, I used Svarris (an elven archer) and shot my buddy's Deathwalker 9000 (a battleship on two legs)- first shot- blink! Wait!, I get two shots with this figure- I rolled the only thing that could damage it, and it fell into a pile of junk. He was not pleased :roll: .
