World building new major races

[Nelphine]

I'm happy with the settled region (TL11 is 3 sectors with 5 million average population per settled world).

I had been putting explored at 36 sectors (roughly 10 times the settled space) basing off my own experiences and knowledge of history, but that's causing issues, so I think I have to arbitrarily lower it to 16 sectors.

I think im going to bring back annual maintenance requiring a shipyard and flesh out mechanics for it that will inherently limit scouting (this is something most video games do, and I can live with it, and I can do it in such a way to never affect normal traveller's as long as they do their annual maintenance anyway.)

 

[Nelphine]

Additionally, anyone have any thoughts on my population distribution in post 63? The goal is to be similar enough to core rules to feel familiar and still generate interesting worlds to visit (mostly pop 6 or 7), while avoiding the worst 'most of the planets don't matter, because there's a big pop 9 planet nearby that is more important' moments.

The goal with this is to only have 1 or 2 pop 9+ planets per sector, so that they feel rare enough to justify why they end up as the seat of power for the sector purely based on population.

(And incidentally leaves the homeworld, at pop A or B, as always ultra important)

 

[Geir]

Additionally, anyone have any thoughts on my population distribution in post 63? The goal is to be similar enough to core rules to feel familiar and still generate interesting worlds to visit (mostly pop 6 or 7), while avoiding the worst 'most of the planets don't matter, because there's a big pop 9 planet nearby that is more important' moments.

The goal with this is to only have 1 or 2 pop 9+ planets per sector, so that they feel rare enough to justify why they end up as the seat of power for the sector purely based on population.

(And incidentally leaves the homeworld, at pop A or B, as always ultra important)

It depends on the age of the civilisation. After 1000 years, you can natural double just about any population into the billions, and wars, divisions, disasters can potentially reduce the homeworld to the sci-fi trope of nobody is quite sure where it is anymore, or if they are sure, it's not important or off limits for cultural, biohazard, or radiological reason.

What you're envisioning is fine for the first millennium, first wave expansion, but (deep time again) how much of a civilisation's lifespan does that cover? Plus, it also assume human-like behaviour expansionist that we as a species may not exhibit forever (or even for very long, if some people have their way). Maybe the only interstellar settlers are an offshoot of the local equivalent of Church of Stellar Divinity and they only settle worlds around red giants.

 

[Nelphine]

It depends on the age of the civilisation. After 1000 years, you can natural double just about any population into the billions, and wars, divisions, disasters can potentially reduce the homeworld to the sci-fi trope of nobody is quite sure where it is anymore, or if they are sure, it's not important or off limits for cultural, biohazard, or radiological reason.

What you're envisioning is fine for the first millennium, first wave expansion, but (deep time again) how much of a civilisation's lifespan does that cover? Plus, it also assume human-like behaviour expansionist that we as a species may not exhibit forever (or even for very long, if some people have their way). Maybe the only interstellar settlers are an offshoot of the local equivalent of Church of Stellar Divinity and they only settle worlds around red giants.

Agreed, and I'll definitely have rules for modifying beyond the standard.

But I'm trying to get a baseline that will generate (mostly) something akin to charted space.

For the deep time thing, I understand, but I'm specifically handwaving it. I'm specifically tying population to TL, and then you can justify those populations any way you want - took thousands of years to go from TL10 to 11? Great, that probably included a long night, civil wars, disasters, enemy incursions.. and oh, and when you arrived at TL11 you magically had the expected population anyway. Did it in 59 years? Your super speedy tech increase came with a giant boom in population, and look.. the same population once again!

In this sense, I'm specifically prioritizing a playable setting, rather than worrying about realistic population growth models.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I'm happy with the settled region (TL11 is 3 sectors with 5 million average population per settled world).

I had been putting explored at 36 sectors (roughly 10 times the settled space) basing off my own experiences and knowledge of history, but that's causing issues, so I think I have to arbitrarily lower it to 16 sectors.

I think im going to bring back annual maintenance requiring a shipyard and flesh out mechanics for it that will inherently limit scouting (this is something most video games do, and I can live with it, and I can do it in such a way to never affect normal traveller's as long as they do their annual maintenance anyway.)

It is not surprising that polities would do annual maintenance at their shipyards which individual ship owners do not have to do. This may be just the adjustment that you need.

 

[Sigtrygg]

With jump 1 and the need for annual maintenance you can scout a diameter of 25 parsecs.
How quickly can you build a type A or B starport 25 parsecs away and then backfill?

 

[Nelphine]

Yeah, but we don't see that kind of production in charted space. So E.T. polities can be assumed to not scout in general beyond that limit - they might do it in specific circumstances and then there could be placed starports like that outside the core settled space, but I don't need to randomly generate them.

It's not perfect mind you, but it's (why they havent explored much) not a topic that gets brought up much with 3I, so it seems to be something that we as the Community of players of traveller accept if we don't think about it a lot.

And honestly, something Deep Night with an on board shipyard is probably more likely than trying to build extra starports.

 

[Sigtrygg]

TL9 jump capable shipyards...
and refineries, parts manufacturing...

 

[Condottiere]

You find some quiet lagoon, and set up shop.

I tend to think because of the exponential nature of exploring space, a series of advance bases are set up, where the scout cruisers can return to.

 

[Nelphine]

Sure, you absolutely can. But.. we don't have significant reference to it in 3I outside the 3I controlled sectors. That's good enough for me.

 

[MasterGwydion]

You find some quiet lagoon, and set up shop.

I tend to think because of the exponential nature of exploring space, a series of advance bases are set up, where the scout cruisers can return to.

These would be the Scout Bases and Scout Way Stations.

 

[J. L. Brown]

I really like your 'Population determines Technology Level' approach; you see it as a hand-wave, but I see it as fundamental. It takes a certain number of non-farmer specialists working together to create a 'critical mass of thinking' in order to advance a field of technology -- and another (lower) number of specialists in a field to maintain a working knowledge of the techniques -- too few specialists, and something becomes a 'lost art'.

To my thinking, this leads to two defining characteristics for a civilization:
1} How productive are developed planets (in terms of how much population it can support); and
2} What are the technological priorities.

For example, Hivers, Aslan, K'kree, Humans, Vargr, and Droyne are all different; the same model of 'TL means X population' works slightly differently for each of them. K'Kree are the worst; when they develop a system they exterminate all the carnivores, scavengers, and almost all of the competing herbivores. They are severely claustophobic grazers, and that means trampling some of the plants before they can be eaten. This means that the biosphere is both less diverse and less productive, and a given planet can support fewer kilograms of K'kree than it can kilograms of other races -- and more kilograms per individual is a double whammy to their population numbers.

A given civilization will allocate what sort of activities their populations engage in differently; only a fraction will be available to things above and beyond farming / producing stuff to keep everyone alive. Each general area of endeavor will have a fraction of that number of non-farming specialists; and only a small fraction of that number might be available to dedicate themselves to advancing technology. So one important distinction betweeen civilizations is which areas are prioritized, and which might be entirely ignored.

As an example let us say that the areas of research that you declare relevant for your campaign are: Medical, Production, Materials, Weapons, Sensors, Communications, Computing, Power Production, Power Transmission & Storage, and Transportation. The Aslan might put their priorities on Weapons and Sensors; with Communications, Materials, and Power Production seen as secondary; and the rest virtually ignored. Vargr might put their emphasis on Communications and Weaponry; with secondary pursuits in Transportation and medical; and all else being tertiary. Hivers might emphasize Computing, and Sensors; with secondary emphasis on Production and Transportation; and etc. The point being that areas with greater emphasis will attract (or be assigned) more population dedicated to developing it, and see the greatest advancement -- while marginalized technologies will lag behind for that civilization.

Communication and Transportation allow greater numbers of population to work together; low technology in these areas prevents large, spread out populations from coordinating enough to make meaningful teams.

 

[Nelphine]

I like that a lot. population = TL, more than just a handwave! I'll incorporate that

I'm also using the notion of 'population is units of productivity' rather than actual population. So small species will have more individuals, and large species will have less individuals. Its not really exact, because its not a magical one to one, but, again, handwaving for playability.

 

[MasterGwydion]

I like that a lot. population = TL, more than just a handwave! I'll incorporate that

I'm also using the notion of 'population is units of productivity' rather than actual population. So small species will have more individuals, and large species will have less individuals. Its not really exact, because its not a magical one to one, but, again, handwaving for playability.

Use the Size of the species as your simple modifier. Humans are Size 5 (0.125 tons). Droyne are Size 4 (0.06125 tons). Aslan are Size 6 (0.25 tons). K'kree are Size 7 (0.5 tons). Virushi are Size 8 (1ton).

This will likely fix one of your problems in a simple way without needing to handwave it.

 

[Nelphine]

Yup that works perfectly.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Except it doesn't match the setting or reality. Humans are not 0.125 tons (are you referring to metric tons or starship tons?)

Kzinti, sorry, Aslan are not as large as Robots presents.


"The Aslan which has evolved from those beginnings is, like
humans, an upright biped averaging 2 meters in height and 100 kg
in weight. There are two sexes: male and female, of which the most
notable external difference is the male's increased size and more
impressive mane. Females outnumber males by a ratio of 3:1."

For comparison a human Imperial male is 1.8m and 75kg. A 2m tall human male would mass ~90kg.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Except it doesn't match the setting or reality. Humans are not 0.125 tons (are you referring to metric tons or starship tons?)

Dtons, obviously. Metric tons aren't really used in Traveller. Plus, We are discussing Size, not Mass or weight.

Kzinti, sorry, Aslan are not as large as Robots presents.

View attachment 2284
"The Aslan which has evolved from those beginnings is, like
humans, an upright biped averaging 2 meters in height and 100 kg
in weight. There are two sexes: male and female, of which the most
notable external difference is the male's increased size and more
impressive mane. Females outnumber males by a ratio of 3:1."

For comparison a human Imperial male is 1.8m and 75kg. A 2m tall human male would mass ~90kg.

I used the rules directly out of the book for their sizes.

Robot Handbook pg.13 on the chart under "Equivalent Size." I am using what already exists, not trying to recreate it from scratch.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The rules are ridiculous.

 

[Condottiere]

The Aslan could just be big boned.

It probably matters more in terms of seating, accommodations, accessibility, and controls.

 

[MasterGwydion]

The rules are ridiculous.

They are what We have. He stated he didn't want to rewrite anything. He said he wanted to use what already existed and expand upon it to create his Universe Generator. So, I stated that which already exists in the rules as a possibly functional modifier for his Population issues.