World building new major races

[Geir]

This is where I always got stuck. Randomly generating an interstellar state of uncertain size when you get to it's border. Starting in the center and working out is useable, but then I'd need to work on collisions.

Not to toot my own book (but I will) some of the cultural traits in WBH could be useful on a sophont level, specifically those relating to Expansionism and Xenophilia (which always sounds dirty to me, but the scale works poorly reversed and calling it Xenophobia). That can help determine the density of settlement and the tendency to conquer or interdict less developed races. Also, Progressiveness might impact the speed of TL gain, cohesion the amount of splintering - one race does not necessarily mean one polity (it could go either way: a splintering like humans or cohesion if we assumed that the Hivers weren't the only Major within their border).

Yes, probably too complex to do programmatically with any degree of reasonable outcomes (there'd be feedback loops for sure at borders), but having a flowchart and checklist might help at least the application of a consistent approach.

Probably the best macro approach (which you may be doing from what I can glean) is to start with a big multi-sector region, place the major races and let them 'grow'.

Again Deep Time is an issue. Not all of them will start at anywhere near the same time. Some could be slow and methodical, some fast, some withering and dying off.

 

[Nelphine]

Yeah, I'm interested in WHB for that type of thing (sophont cultural trauts). A lot of the full math, I LIKE but I specifically want to distill it down to simplified rolls.

For the borders, what im trying to do with this work, is figure out what a species would look like IF you generate it from the inside out, find various percentages and sizes, and then apply it in reverse (one reason intuitiveness and playability is so important).

So what will happen in practice is, players will explore a new system, generate the types of worlds, check for existing life, and then determine - is that life native to the system, or not? If it's not, is it life they have encountered before (which can only be previously encountered major races, or minor races that are 'associated' to a major race - meaning obtained jump from that major race, and therefore count 'as' that major race for this purpose). If it's not, then it's a new major race, so determine the importance of this world to that major race, and in turn determine things like population of the world.

When a new major race is encountered, we don't need to map out where it is, but we do roll for whether it has encountered any previously discovered major races (or associated minor races). The found location plus the knowledge of who it has encountered then is used for future systems to see if life in those systems comes from this race.

 

[Nelphine]

For deep time, despite the realism issues, I'm simply handwaving it. Magically, all major races are going to be in the 9-15 TL range, and are going to have a population based on that.

This will give a playable universe with interesting interactions. It's fine to then say 'this race was TL10 and stagnant for a million years, and then encountered this TL12 race, and now they're suddenly active again' or 'they got TL9 50 years ago, and exploded and are now TL14 due to biological advances causing their population to increase 250 times in those 50 years!' or any other random explanation. The important part is the results, and the explanation us completely open for interpretation.

 

[CordwainerFish]

Strictly for the Charted Space universe, I was under the impression that current 'Major Races' were essentially nonexistent outside Charted Space (though Deepnight Revelations junks that idea). At least that was my understanding from Marc's musings, one or two steps removed from first hand. But let's assume that is 'old information.'

Back in the early MegaTraveller epoch, I read somewhere the claim that, outside Charted Space, life was widespread, sapient life was scarce, and Jump-using sapients did not occur, but I cannot remember what that source was. Sound familiar to anyone?

 

[Limpin Legin]

Back in the early MegaTraveller epoch, I read somewhere the claim that, outside Charted Space, life was widespread, sapient life was scarce, and Jump-using sapients did not occur, but I cannot remember what that source was. Sound familiar to anyone?

If you hadn't mentioned Jump, thought it would sound like 20th - 21st C. Earthen comments and reflections.

 

[Geir]

Back in the early MegaTraveller epoch, I read somewhere the claim that, outside Charted Space, life was widespread, sapient life was scarce, and Jump-using sapients did not occur, but I cannot remember what that source was. Sound familiar to anyone?

Yeah, that's what I remember too, but I think it was second hand or a transcript from a conversation or interview with Marc, not an actual article or anything. But now I can't find the YouTube where he talked about how the Annic Nova jump drives could work in series either...

 

[GabrielGABFonseca]

I'd like to point out that Traveller 5, as usual, Has A Procedure For That™ (that should 100% be its tagline, in my opinion).

If you have a copy of Traveller 5.10, in Core Book 2 - Starships you will find from page 238 on to page 241 the chapter 'The Lifespans of Intelligent Species', which covers the technological development aspect, including The Great Filter and the development (or lack thereof) of Jump, Hop, Skip, etc. Drives.

Immediately following it, on pages 242 and 243, you'll have a brief, very succinct chapter titled 'Interstellar Communities', which does somewhat touch lightly on some aspects of what you want.

But the main thing you'd find useful is the lifetime thingamabob. It can yield some true roller-coasters for a species' history.

 

[Nelphine]

Ok, so my thoughts:
for a 'standard' government (whatever THAT means..)

TL9: Core of empire is home system
- will have explored 4 sectors
TL10: Core of empire is home sector
- will have explored 16 sectors
TL11: Core of empire is 3 sectors
- will have explored 36 sectors (if permitted by neighbors)
TL12: Core of empire is 8 sectors
- run out of 'room' by meeting other major species at ~15 sectors
- will have explored 64 sectors (if permitted by neighbors)
TL13: Core of empire is 22 sectors (if it can expand faster than the neighboring major species)
- will have explored 100 sectors
TL14: Core of empire is 49 sectors (not typically expected to ever reach this)
- will have explored 144 sectors
TL15: Core is 81 sectors (for completeness sake)
- will have explored 196 sectors

The core would define where the majority of the population is (90%+, getting closer to 100% the higher the TL, I'll figure out an actual formula at some point). The rest of the population would be in explored sectors (but usually adjacent to core).

I'd like to point out that Traveller 5, as usual, Has A Procedure For That™ (that should 100% be its tagline, in my opinion).

If you have a copy of Traveller 5.10, in Core Book 2 - Starships you will find from page 238 on to page 241 the chapter 'The Lifespans of Intelligent Species', which covers the technological development aspect, including The Great Filter and the development (or lack thereof) of Jump, Hop, Skip, etc. Drives.

Immediately following it, on pages 242 and 243, you'll have a brief, very succinct chapter titled 'Interstellar Communities', which does somewhat touch lightly on some aspects of what you want.

But the main thing you'd find useful is the lifetime thingamabob. It can yield some true roller-coasters for a species' history.

This sounds super interesting, but I'm not sure I want to invest just for that

 

[Condottiere]

Assuming empire means (viable) span of control, and communications is dependent on jump drive range.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Back in the early MegaTraveller epoch, I read somewhere the claim that, outside Charted Space, life was widespread, sapient life was scarce, and Jump-using sapients did not occur, but I cannot remember what that source was. Sound familiar to anyone?

I have a vague memory of that - time to read through Digest magazines...

 

[Sigtrygg]

Yeah, that's what I remember too, but I think it was second hand or a transcript from a conversation or interview with Marc, not an actual article or anything. But now I can't find the YouTube where he talked about how the Annic Nova jump drives could work in series either...

All you have to do is ask - I really do know this stuff you know.

34 minute 25 seconds in...

 

[Nelphine]

OK, so now I have population distribution, just by sector instead of planets, which is fine.

So then, when do their cores meet each other.

TL 12 meeting TL 12 should be the majority, say, 60%. TL12 meeting either TL 13 or 11 should be 30%.

But that means 60% they're going to be same TL, and 30% they're going to be one TL off. If they're both 11, it just means they haven't met yet.

So since non jump races can reach TL10 in this system, I think TL11 should be the most common.

So.. roll 2d6

2: TL 9
3: TL 10
4-9: TL11
10-11: TL12
12: roll 2d6 again
2-9: TL13
10-11: TL14
12: TL15

And then I think there will be a modifier based on the TL of the highest know major race (+1 to the first roll for each TL above 12 of highest know major race)

 

[Sigtrygg]

But now I can't find the YouTube where he talked about how the Annic Nova jump drives could work in series either...

I posted the spotify link because original link I had is now discontinued.

By the way the drives do not work in series. The Hironimus Nexus raise the power of one jump drive to the exponent of the other jump drive.

So a jump 3 and a jump 2 become a jump 3^2 = 3 x 3 = 9

The 6 N 6 drive would be effectively a jump 46,656 drive...

 

[Vormaerin]

There's a whole section in T5 on linked jump drives if that's your jam.

 

[Condottiere]

Breakaway hulls justifies it.

 

[Sigtrygg]

There's a whole section in T5 on linked jump drives if that's your jam.

Sadly the Hieronymus nexus is not mentioned in T5, only in this interview with Marc

 

[Sigtrygg]

Breakaway hulls justifies it.

They justify jump 46,656? How do they do that?

 

[Condottiere]

Lowest common denominator, or technological level.

So if you have a default technological level nine jump module in the network, you won't get further than one parsec.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Doesn't answer my question, how does your statement about "Breakaway hulls justifies it." lead to jump 46,656?

or are you referring to the T5 nexus where all you are doing in ganging the drives - so in a breakaway ship of say 4 200 ton hulls
their jump drives can be linked to jump the combined ship.

 

[Condottiere]

Potential jump drive performance have always been based on percentage of hull volume, with the provision of overhead tonnage.

So if you do link together enough volume at the minimum technological level, you can jump to the wished for range.