Why isn't there a knight core class in Conan?

[Azgulor]

The Pointainian Knight in the Aquilonia supplement was an excellent addition, IMO, however I'm curious why it wasn't presented as a core class? I mean, we have the Bandit and Nomad as archetypes, why not the knight?

I can certainly see how a Soldier/Noble multiclass builds a passable knight, but the Pointainian Knight demonstrates how a more effective knight could be built. Mechanics aside, what about unlanded knights? They would have the Title benefit (or the equivalent of Noble Blood), but wouldn't have the Wealth advantage. I think a Knight/Noble multiclass would be a better representation for landed fighting nobles.

Arguably, the knight should be a prestige class to account for the time spent as a squire, but since no other class accounts for "apprenticeship" I don't think it's necessary.

So what do all of you Conan experts think?

Azgulor

 

[VincentDarlage]

A knight can be well represented with the Soldier class and the Noble Blood feat from Scrolls of Skelos. That gives the soldier a Title, but no Wealth.

Also, only Aquilonia, Koth, Ophir, Argos, Zingara and Nemedia (maybe Brythunia) really have a knightly class. The core classes tend to be classes most of the races/cultures can use. The Hyborians (and Zingarans) are the only feudal ones for the most part. That leaves the other races unable to use the class.

 

[Azgulor]

I hadn't considered that the only a couple of nations might have a feudal structure that would result in knights being part of the cultural and military make-up. I'm using the Conan rules for my current campaign but it isn't set in Hyboria (I'm trying to get one of my players to run it!) and most of the cultures in the campaign area similar to Aquilonia.

Guess I liked the Poitainian Knight enough that I wanted to see a full 20-level progression for it. Thanks for the feedback Vincent!

Azgulor

 

[Hadrathas]

I could be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere that REH wrote that Ophir was known for their Knights...Do not have my books on me so I cannot see where I read that...

 

[Ranzadule]

Add Zingara and Ophir and likely Argos and Shem. One of the problems with Knights is that of obligation. Howard's writings did not indicate much in the way of the Questing Knight. In Greyhawk and the Realms and other worlds, oyu have paladins and knioghts running around fighting evil. In Hyboria you have roguish types, Mercs, adventurers and so on, just having fun and making a living. Knights all have jobs.

 

[Deathdealer]

Add Zingara and Ophir and likely Argos and Shem.

Zingara, OK.

Ophir & Argos, maybe.

Shem, I rather doubt that you would find anything even remotely similar to a knight.

 

[Ranzadule]

Shemish Mailed Lancers are at least "remotely" similar to a knight.


I have the TEE-Shirt that says "I won in the Hyborian War" PBM game.

 

[LordNull]

Koth and Ophir both had knights. They are both mentioned in the "Scarlet Citadel". Also Khoraja also had knights,they are mentioned in "Black Colossus". I hope this helps

 

[SALette]

I think that using the Solder class, or the Noble class, or multi-classing therein (or selection of Noble blood as a feat) already simulate Knights.

After all, Knights are soliders and landed gentry (not always, but often).
Sounds like a Soldier/Noble multiclass to me.

 

[Azgulor]

Ok, so since the general consensus is that Soldier/Noble is an effective combo for generating knight characters, can we expect Variant Rules to better represent the multi-class combo as was done in Hyboria's Fiercest? I would still like to be able to draw some distinction between a knight vs. an Officer (also a Soldier/Noble multiclass as seen in Free Companies). The differences might be subtle, but we've already seen a precedent for this in the supplements - Scout (Soldier/Borderer) from Free Companies vs. Skirmisher (Borderer/Soldier).

Azgulor

 

[InsomNY]

Knight is a title, not necessary a way of life or a fighting style. Cavalry soldiers and knights do exactly the same thing on the Hyborian battlefield, knights just do it with better equipment.

IMO, a prestige class is acceptable if a particular region's knights are distinctive in some way (though I don't much care for prestige classes in Conan or anywhere else, personally). If not, start as a noble, take Noble Blood as a feat, or better yet, play your character in such a way that s/he gets recognized for valor and is knighted.

And as far as Shem is concerned, the closest thing to knighthood there is a city's Asshuri. Pick up a copy of The Free Companies for more details.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Ok, so since the general consensus is that Soldier/Noble is an effective combo for generating knight characters, can we expect Variant Rules to better represent the multi-class combo as was done in Hyboria's Fiercest? I would still like to be able to draw some distinction between a knight vs. an Officer (also a Soldier/Noble multiclass as seen in Free Companies). The differences might be subtle, but we've already seen a precedent for this in the supplements - Scout (Soldier/Borderer) from Free Companies vs. Skirmisher (Borderer/Soldier).

Azgulor

Yes. Expect some variant rules and options with Hyboria's Finest, which has multi-class options for soldiers, nobles and scholars. Also, just for note, I did not reprint my Free Companies multi-class options. I thought up all new concepts for the soldiers.

 

[Damien]

I don't really see the "not every culture has knights" argument as functioning as a reason for not including a knightly class. I mean - look at the 'races' section of the core book - how many races have 'Prohibited Classes?'

The way I see it, you could deal with a knight base class in two ways:

1) Make it essentially a noble/soldier hybrid style class and make it prohibited to quite a few races.

2) Focus the class more on the military aspect of knightly behaviour - i.e. mounted-related abilities and extra combat stuff. This way, the class can be applied very broadly. A Kushite horseman may not be called a knight, and may not wear mail and a visored helm. But he can certainly benefit from the bonus to fighting while mounted and stuff of that sort, right?

I've been considering a knightly class, since I'm going to be using the Conan rules for a historical fiction game set around 1100 C.E. But I think I have enough time to wait and see what's presented in Hyboria's Finest first.


Hey.. I knew Hyboria's Fiercest has multi-class options, but I didn't know Free Companies had some. That's pretty cool. So many books, such an empty wallet.

 

[Azgulor]

Ok, so since the general consensus is that Soldier/Noble is an effective combo for generating knight characters, can we expect Variant Rules to better represent the multi-class combo as was done in Hyboria's Fiercest? I would still like to be able to draw some distinction between a knight vs. an Officer (also a Soldier/Noble multiclass as seen in Free Companies). The differences might be subtle, but we've already seen a precedent for this in the supplements - Scout (Soldier/Borderer) from Free Companies vs. Skirmisher (Borderer/Soldier).

Azgulor

Yes. Expect some variant rules and options with Hyboria's Finest, which has multi-class options for soldiers, nobles and scholars. Also, just for note, I did not reprint my Free Companies multi-class options. I thought up all new concepts for the soldiers.

Excellent news and just what I was hoping to hear! Your ability to show the versatility of multi-classing (esp. with the Variant Rules) has done a couple of things for my game:
1 - convinced me I could switch to the Conan rules without sacrificing flexibility
2 - Showed that the bloat of new character classes and prestige classes that plague other d20 books is usually unnecessary
3 - Pushed the Conan RPG even further above the rest of the D&D/d20 rules out there.

This plus new Soldier multi-class options? Well I was already sold on Hyboria's Finest, but now I need this book NOW!

Thanks for the info, Vincent.

Azgulor

 

[Damien]

Well I was already sold on Hyboria's Finest, but now I need this book NOW!

Here here!

October is just too far away.

 

[René]

Yeah, one of the very good things about CONAN RPG is the rarity of Prestige Classes - keep it that way. A few good are better than the enormous mass of crap other companies throw at their (supposedly younger?) players.

 

[SALette]

Likewise, I much prefer a game without the un-necessary bloat of the Prestiege classes. I'm all for them for simulating very specific groups, but against any form of profound proliferation, especially when a Prestiege class becomes freely available that duplicates the existing rules - but does so the same, yet better than combinations of exisiting classes and multiclasses.

 

[Damien]

I don't think Conan is in any danger of Prestige Class bloat, even if the proposed Knight core class was added to the game.

According to me and most of the players I've had the pleasure of sitting beside or opposite from: Any game is better off adding a couple more Core classes instead of 40 more prestige classes.

Adding a Knightly class, or a Knight multiclass option like in Hyboria's Fiercest, would alleviate any need for future Knight PrCs that D&D is brimming with, and that Conan already has one of (Poitainian Knight).

 

[VincentDarlage]

Adding a Knightly class, or a Knight multiclass option like in Hyboria's Fiercest, would alleviate any need for future Knight PrCs that D&D is brimming with, and that Conan already has one of (Poitainian Knight).

There is a Knight multi-class option in the upcoming Hyboria's Finest.

 

[Damien]

There is a Knight multi-class option in the upcoming Hyboria's Finest.

Have I mentioned recently that you're my hero? I'm going to paint a picture of you on my shield and fight in your name.


With that said, between the multi-class options and the existing core classes, I really don't think there's much reason for more than a couple of prestige classes to exist.