Why is the Nemesis an Armageddon Level Ship ?

[Alexb83]

Well, if those are the new stealth rules, given the rolling as it was the nemesis still wouldn't have managed to target a single ship. She rolled a 4 on the first turn, 3s outside of 8 inches, and only a 1 inside 8 inches on the last attempt. Had I split AD she might have got a few missiles onto targets (more chances to get that magic 50% chance within 20 inches). But don't forget that the fighters would have been dodging like anything.

 

[Triggy]

Well, if those are the new stealth rules, given the rolling as it was the nemesis still wouldn't have managed to target a single ship. She rolled a 4 on the first turn, 3s outside of 8 inches, and only a 1 inside 8 inches on the last attempt. Had I split AD she might have got a few missiles onto targets (more chances to get that magic 50% chance within 20 inches). But don't forget that the fighters would have been dodging like anything.

But then that comes down to poor dice rolling rather than "what should happen"

At least "normally" the Nemesis would do much, much better than this

 

[katadder]

i thought the sharlins versus nemesis looked like too much look so tried it myself and unfortunately it took 2 rounds for the 2 sharlins to kill it and that was with the nemesis seeing its target in both rounds for total 17 dam, 15 crew.
the probs were init, with 2 below wasnt going to win that easy and if you dont get the boresight on you dont have that many weapons to the front (should have had a molecular mini beam to the front as well IMO). then the 12AD precise beams just tore it to shreds with crits and in one round of dogfighting 4 nials also killed all the t-bolts.
one of the main probs with this ship as stated before is its crew score, with DD hits getting crew hits normally its not too bad, on this ship its the worst crits you can get. it was still far from crippled but lost all its crew. i think even versus one sharlin it would have a problem, so maybe the nemesis should have been seriously bumped up in power or put as a warship with the warlock getting a serious upgrade.

 

[Voronesh]

Or rather i would prefer to be all EA armageddon ships to be found at war.

EA should not be able to trump every single Minbari tech of centuries past, by simply applying some shadow tech.

 

[Triggy]

Or rather i would prefer to be all EA armageddon ships to be found at war.

EA should not be able to trump every single Minbari tech of centuries past, by simply applying some shadow tech.

I too liked the Warlock (and now the Nemesis) at War but I have to say, the comparisons people are making are showing the Nemesis at its worst. It's a ship that relies on having others to support it (for initiative sinks if nothing else) and then it becomes a decent choice. The problem then becomes: how often will you play a game that requires more than an Armageddon level ship?

 

[Goldritter]

I too liked the Warlock (and now the Nemesis) at War but I have to say, the comparisons people are making are showing the Nemesis at its worst. It's a ship that relies on having others to support it (for initiative sinks if nothing else) and then it becomes a decent choice. The problem then becomes: how often will you play a game that requires more than an Armageddon level ship?

Yes, I see it so too.
But for a ship which needs a fleet to operate properly it doesn´t give a fleet a reason to take it.
The Warlock needs a fleet too for support but it gives the fleet a +2 for initiative.

And if I need a fleet to use the Nemesis, I choose more Battle or War Level ships (or a Warlock) which perform better as the Nemesis.

 

[Goldritter]

I too liked the Warlock (and now the Nemesis) at War but I have to say, the comparisons people are making are showing the Nemesis at its worst.

I think it would be better to have the Warlock at War Level and eventually the Nemesis too. Or a realy enhanced version of the Nemesis at Armageddon Level.

But for Earth it´s littlebit to fast to get the tech to jump from Battle-Level ships to armageddon in a few years.

How long was the Hyperion on Raid the best ship ?
20 Years?
30?

 

[Tank]

Yup its a little fast, after all they went from not flying to landing on the moon in what? 50 yearsish?

prop engines to jet engines in 34 yearsish

 

[Voronesh]

And they went from battlelvl Omega to Armageddon lvl Omega in what? 2yearsish.

Hrm didnt see a 4fold enhancement in such a short time around here. Warships tend to be more complaicated than a jetengine.

And what every other race out there has little to no advancement? If EA does it this quickly. Wed have Centauri and Minbari at Ancient lvls, LONAW and Narn right behind them. had centuries to advance yet they didnt.

Either we have just proven that Minbari are as intelligent as an ant farm, or Humans are as intelligent as a 'vorlon' (no good analogy left over)

 

[Goldritter]

And they went from battlelvl Omega to Armageddon lvl Omega in what? 2yearsish.

The Shadows help them with this jump. But only for these ships, or I´m wrong ?

But I don´t beleve, that EA can examine the left over Shadow Tech in such a short time, that they make this level jump in e few yers.

 

[Tank]

Dont forget economic and social pressures, the EA is the new kid on the block pouring money into R&D and aggressive development, oh and they have a burning need to make sure their fleet can withstand another Minbari War.

Only the Narn can be said to be anywhere comparable in their R&D drive and this shows.

Minbari, it's not broken why fix it?

Centauri, well they're suffering from a bit of a recession and they still have extremely capable platforms in the fleet.

LONAW, well they have their own issues.

And EA are still on the bottom of the big 4, not overtaking anyone just yet.

 

[Voronesh]

Well.

Minbari know how strong the Shadows are. And they know there will be second great shadow war. If this isnt a good idea for R&D i dont know what will.

 

[Goldritter]

Well.

Minbari know how strong the Shadows are. And they know there will be second great shadow war. If this isnt a good idea for R&D i dont know what will.

The result of their R&D was the White Star.

 

[Triggy]

And they went from battlelvl Omega to Armageddon lvl Omega in what? 2yearsish.

Well, if you're talking the gap between the Omega and the Warlock it's actually 17 years. The Omega Destroyer wasn't new in Season 2, it was created at the end of the Minbari war.

 

[Tank]

The Minbari also developed the Sharlin between the Shadow Wars, I think thats a tad bit of good R&D

 

[Voronesh]

No to the Shadow Omega.

The Omega itself will probably have seen quite a few upgrades. Apply shadow grafts and you get a 300% increase in power?

 

[Tank]

But its not really a 300% increase, none of the EA ships are worthy of Armaggeddon status.

But the main thing for the Shadow Omega seems to be its weapons boost, and there you do have a significant increase.

 

[Voronesh]

Well there is the difference of intended boost and actual.

But thats why id prefer all the EA ships at war instead of geddon.

The Narn and Centauri and LONAW achieve that lvl by building a huge overblown dreadnought. EA goes there with a cruiser, equaling Minbari at their power.

 

[Greg Smith]

Also the warrior caste considered the prophecy of another Shadow war to be a nonsence dreamed up by the religious caste.

 

[Tank]

But they still built the Sharlin :lol: even the minbari can be affected by BiB syndrome