Why is the Nemesis an Armageddon Level Ship ?

Do you remember the orriginal pre RS1 WS?

Don't get me started on low crew scorees, 8, and back then Adaptive Armour didn't halve crew loss.

LBH
 
Actually that doesnt make too much sense.

You get extra guns, so you should have extra gunners to take care of them.

I mean its easier to get more people on board a White Star (In the show they seem nearly empty compared to an omega bridge alone..) than to bulk out its armor.......
 
Well.....true

BUT the maintenance crew.....

Nahhh even if it sounds evil (Well ships with less crew is always better, less casualties), but from the game mechanics its better to have extra crew. YOu will never have a useless hulk drifting. But the WS-2 is good as it is.
 
pity the WS1 isnt any more. firepower is ok until you face a ship with interceptors, and the amount of 3s i keep rolling on dodges isnt funny. also removing both precise and an AD from the pulsars hurt, they dont have much firepower for a raid ship really. ask any narn player why they take ka'tans over ka'tocs and they will tell you a 1AD TD beam isnt worth it.
 
hiffano said:
well neither does the Neroon or the Ka'Bin'Tak, but then that would take the thunder from the EA's complaints.

mind you, I did say when the stats appeare din S+P, that a bintak or an octurion could take one!

But do you give me right, when I say, that the Nemesis is even worse as the Ka`Bin`Tak ?

Alone the Command +2 give the Ka`Bin`Tak an edge against the Nemesis.
And then the nice forward arment of this ship (45" 10AD E-Mine without Slow-Loading in the front).

And the Neroon has the same Edge with the Command +1 (+ The Initative Bonus from the Minbari) and the 36" 4AD B/TD/SAP/P weapon.
The Presice in the weapon does hurt.
(I fear weapons with presice more then weapons with DD or even TD.)
And then 18" 12AD AP/MB in all arcs is a nice addition too.
 
We regret to inform the family and friends of the crew of the EAS Advanced Destroyer Warspite that, whilst on patrol on the borders of Minbari space, the ship was lost with all hands.

The burned out wreck of the Nemesis class ship was found drifting in sector 83. The damaged flight recorders salvaged from the hull indicated a brief, bloody encounter with the Minbari, which left none alive.


Okay... in short, 2 sharlins vs. 1 nemesis was predictably bloody. The nemesis lost every turn (4 turns total) of initiative, even with 2 draws (lost on rerolls). Playing Call to Arms, I set the nemesis up at the far left of his zone, to avoid flanking. I set up the Sharlins (En'fili and Durhan) to the far left of theirs, set 6 inches apart, to ensure good spacing. All ships started with a flight deployed. Unfortunately the crew failed to run silent,

The Warspite moved forwards, and forced the minbari to spread apart, keeping the Durhan out of forward arc in her resulting move (she was in boresight and in order to clear it, had to break off from the Enfili. Luckily, the Warspite couldn't beat the Minbari stealth, even with the HEL system. No shots were fired, and the Tbolts languished in the bays.

The En'fili, surging across the guns of the Earthers before they could fire, managed to bring her neutron laser to bear, scoring 2 hits, one of which was a critical on the weapons system, disabling the boresight of the Warspite. The advanced hull of the warspite was quick to repair all the damage (5 of 4) but the molecular slicer was out of action. Both sharlins launched a second flight of nials each.

Turn 2, minbari win initiative again, the Warspite attempts to close, but fails to come about and get better bearing on the flanking Durhan. Attempting to target the En'fili with her missile banks, she again fails to lock on.

En'fili, now within 18", opens fire with her fore armament, scoring 1 solid and two critical hits, causing fires to break out on Warspite, and damaging her targetting arrays. The mini-beam armament causes two additional solid hits.

Durhan then fires, having come to bear, and causes 4 hits (3 solid, one crit) damaging the bridge. A further 5 hits from the secondary guns cause a massive explosion in the reactor (17 hull, 7 crew).

The Warspite crew fails to repair the molecular cutter, whilst the hull repairs 6 points.

Turn 3. Again, the Warspite fails to gain initiative, and attempts to pre-empt a cut across the bow by the En'fili, turning broadside on to the enemy. She launches a second flight of Tbolts. The flight in the air manages to lock their scanners on the En'fili.
The en'fili comes to a halt scarcely 6 inches away, guns bearing down, whilst the Durhan closes on the aft port quarter (within 4 inches), still in the same arc as her sister ship. She launches a fourth flight, whilst her fighters in the air close on the enemy starfuries.

The Warspite, even with HEL and assistance from the thunderbolts, fails to target the Durhan with the phased cutter (rolled a 1).

Both minbari ships open up at close range... the Nials close in and obliterate the T-bolts. The poor earthers really never stood a chance. I didn't have the heart to finish it up - the Warspite took a further 4 criticals out of 9 hits on Turn 3, including her engines disabled and more crew fires.

Tomorrow I may try one sharlin vs. the nemesis - but I'm not too hopeful about the EA chances even then.
 
Brutal. I can't see any armageddon ship faring well against two war ships, though, to be honest. It's going to be out-manouevered and probably out-gunned.

I'd be interested to see how the Adira does against two Bin'Taks, though, all the same.
 
Well, I think it was a foregone conclusion with the Nemesis. It had the advantage in speed and hull, but 1 ship vs. 2 is going to be out manouvered. It has a reasonable fighter loadout, but then Sharlins have a better loadout, and there are two of them. Perhaps it was all down to dice rolling, but the molecular slicer never even had a chance to be fired, and the other weapons were as good as useless, even with HEL and scanners to full from Tbolts - the Nemesis is simply no good unsupported.

Also, +2 initiative against +4 is doomed to fail - drew on the first roll twice, but just kept on letting themselves down on the reroll.

As for the Neroon - well, because of its extremely poor crew rating and less than great stealth, I'd sooner take a Morshin and 3 Tinashi variants with advanced beams any day. Again, you've got the advantage of mobility, initiative sinking and more jump points to play with.
 
interesting read, I have to say, you seem to have had some pretty aweful dice rolls with the Nemesis, and I wouldn't give any armageddon ship a huge chance against 2 warships, likewise, 2 Sharlins would probably be taken out by 4 drakh cruisers, so it's all swings and roundabouts. but the nemesis still looks even to my mind, more like a tough warship!
 
I rolled pretty average for the nemesis - the problem is, even with +1 vs. stealth, it needs 5s outside of 10 inches to even target a Sharlin, so average just wont do.
To top that, it only has a few weapons in each arc. If you take boresight out of the equation (and I think you have to, except for the very rare occasion when the EA win initiative) then it only has one weapon (missiles) in any arc that can target outside of 12 inches - that's one attempt to beat stealth, and no more, if the minbari maintain range.

And when the minbari get close, as they did, and approach in one arc with overwhelming fighter support, the Nemesis is still in trouble - the Minbari will have straddled the boresight (if they approach from the front for some crazy reason), and will have (at worst) 2 weapons to contend with, on a 4+ (or, if the Tbolts still live and succeed) a 3+ to beat their stealth.

I suppose it could try and get more dice out by splitting fire at close range, but then it's going to do less damage if it does manage to target anyone.

Also, 8 Nial flights and 2 Flyers vs. 4 Thunderbolts just isn't fair :)
 
Don´t say that too loud. :roll:
It can happen, that he Nemesis will be downgraded to War Level (with some lower Damage and Crew) and the Warlock will be at Armageddon. :mrgreen:
 
Alexb83 said:
I rolled pretty average for the nemesis - the problem is, even with +1 vs. stealth, it needs 5s outside of 10 inches to even target a Sharlin, so average just wont do.
To top that, it only has a few weapons in each arc. If you take boresight out of the equation (and I think you have to, except for the very rare occasion when the EA win initiative) then it only has one weapon (missiles) in any arc that can target outside of 12 inches - that's one attempt to beat stealth, and no more, if the minbari maintain range.

If I understand the rules for Stealth right, than you make only one roll for every attack you like to make.

And yes the main problem with the Nemesis are the range (and AD´s) of his secondaries. Even the Warlock has a 15"/12" with his Laser/Pulse Arrays.
 
Well the VCD looks pretty nice and the Vorlon Heavy crusier looks downright scary. The shadow ship looks nasty too but I suspect 2 hunters would be more useful most of the time...
 
Goldritter said:
Alexb83 said:
I rolled pretty average for the nemesis - the problem is, even with +1 vs. stealth, it needs 5s outside of 10 inches to even target a Sharlin, so average just wont do.
To top that, it only has a few weapons in each arc. If you take boresight out of the equation (and I think you have to, except for the very rare occasion when the EA win initiative) then it only has one weapon (missiles) in any arc that can target outside of 12 inches - that's one attempt to beat stealth, and no more, if the minbari maintain range.

If I understand the rules for Stealth right, than you make only one roll for every attack you like to make.

And yes the main problem with the Nemesis are the range (and AD´s) of his secondaries. Even the Warlock has a 15"/12" with his Laser/Pulse Arrays.

Interesting - I would've thought if you were splitting fire between say - a ship with stealth 4, and a ship with stealth 5, you would roll separately to target each with the no. of AD you assigned to each, no? Similarly against 2 sharlins, you would roll two checks against stealth 5 (or, if you'd focused scanners to full on one ship but not the other, a 4 and 5)?

There's lots of rules that aren't too clear to me from a quick read of the rules... like fighters. Do you just get their listed AD, or do you get 6x their listed AD. Do they have 6 hits, or does one point of damage knock out the whole flight?
 
Alexb83 said:
Interesting - I would've thought if you were splitting fire between say - a ship with stealth 4, and a ship with stealth 5, you would roll separately to target each with the no. of AD you assigned to each, no? Similarly against 2 sharlins, you would roll two checks against stealth 5 (or, if you'd focused scanners to full on one ship but not the other, a 4 and 5)?

There's lots of rules that aren't too clear to me from a quick read of the rules... like fighters. Do you just get their listed AD, or do you get 6x their listed AD. Do they have 6 hits, or does one point of damage knock out the whole flight?

You make on roll for all attacks at one Target.
So if you want to attack two Sharlin you make one roll if you can target the first and then one roll if you target the second.
You make the rolls after you declared which weapon fires at which target.

And yes if the Fighter Flight get only 1 Damage points it´s destroyed.

The new Shadow Scout can kill 6 Flights in one round. And the Nemesis can kill with his Light Molecular Cutter up to 18 Flights if they are around him not more than 4" away. (Because he can Split his fire so, that every Fighter Flight get 1 AD AP,AF, so they can´t dodge and have a by 1 reduced hull).
 
Alexb83 said:
I rolled pretty average for the nemesis - the problem is, even with +1 vs. stealth, it needs 5s outside of 10 inches to even target a Sharlin, so average just wont do.

So you didn't use the new stealth rules?
 
I don't have a copy of armageddon yet, I'm afraid. Just used the revised rules. But it didn't manage to beat the 5+ stealth in any case (let alone 6+). Catastrophic rolling of 3s and the odd 1, as noted.
 
with hell track the worst you would need to see the sharlins is 5s at over 20", 4s at over 8-20" and 3s at 8" or less. add in fighters and its 2s.
 
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