Why is the G’Quonth War Class?

[Digger]

Just as a matter of interest, can anyone tell me why in the recent review of ships under P&P was the G’Quonth still left as a War class vessel? :?

I mean, who would want to take it? Its as slow as a Bin'Tak, it has much the same armament as a G'Quan, but has no fighters!

Lets face it, it's pretty poo - So why would anyone take it, and why Oh why should it be War class?

Let's upgrade it and let all the hard pressed Narn players have something to cheer about, especially as the G'Vrahn got the booby prize in P&P.

Make the Narn proud to own the G'Quonth, and not like it's the neighbour back from Mexico sneezing in your face! :twisted:

 

[H]

in fairness, the G'Quanth is actually a pretty decent ship, but, it is sat in one of the best war level settings of any race. Yup the G'Vrahn got it's knackers chopped off, but it is still good, and the Bin Tak is still excelent. I still don't understand why the simplest of fixes swapping one shot mines from bin tak to g'vrahn was completely ignored, but there you go.

up close and personal, the G'Quanth dishes out more firepower than the bintak i believe (i oculd be mis remembering) and of course at range it can pepper with Ion torps.

admitedly I would have preffered something "different" for the G'Quanth, either as a battle or war ship, but it seems the narn were pretty much left alone, no new ships or anything and several pretty useless or defunct ones. look for the G'Quanth torp cruiser as a possible house rule accepted ship?

 

[Greg Smith]

It has slow loading e-mines, extra ion cannon AD, and oodles of ion cannons. It is less robust than the bin'tak, but it is comparable, especially now it 70 damage.

Sadly they both look poor comapred to the G'Vrahn.

 

[Tolwyn]

Indeed, even the reriffted G'Vrahn is better then the Bin'Tak and G'Quonth. I wonder if I should try to get some more G'Vrahn before the licence drops.

 

[H]

I cannot wholely agree, the Bin Tak is still superb, too many people seem to write it off in favour of the G'Vrahn. I know which one I would want to drop in the middle of an enemy formation!
I do still believe the E-Mines are the defining factor. Give the G'Vrahn back it's interceptors and command, and give it one shotters, with the bigger Bin Tak carrying slow loading, such a simple solution, it was even voted on as a good solution... pah.. .

 

[Digger]

@ Greg - But aren't the E-Mines on the G'Quonth single shot - On a war class!- Oh yes the Bin'Tak's are too! :roll:

To quote Monty Python - My, My, Wht a silly Bunt! :twisted:

 

[Burger]

Do you know how much e-mines cost??

 

[H]

@ Greg - But aren't the E-Mines on the G'Quonth single shot - On a war class!- Oh yes the Bin'Tak's are too! :roll:

To quote Monty Python - My, My, Wht a silly Bunt! :twisted:

ooh, i thought teh G'Q had slow loading ones, shocking!!

I would have thought the e-mines wre in high demand from all races, naturally the laws of supply and demand have kicked in as everyone wants somthing to try and stop hunting packs!

 

[Foxmeister]

@ Greg - But aren't the E-Mines on the G'Quonth single shot - On a war class!- Oh yes the Bin'Tak's are too! :roll:

O/S e-mines on the G'Quonth? Not in my fleet book at least, so I guess I'm missing the joke here!

Regards,

Dave

 

[Da Boss]

@ Greg - But aren't the E-Mines on the G'Quonth single shot - On a war class!- Oh yes the Bin'Tak's are too! :roll:

To quote Monty Python - My, My, Wht a silly Bunt! :twisted:

ooh, i thought teh G'Q had slow loading ones, shocking!!

I would have thought the e-mines wre in high demand from all races, naturally the laws of supply and demand have kicked in as everyone wants somthing to try and stop hunting packs!

Sooooooooo now that we have disdained the use of Hunting Packs in order to make destroying lesser races like the Narn more sport, we shall equip the fleets of the Republic with a suitably refined enhanced version of this primative weapon - maybe one which crits ...................... :wink:

 

[Triggy]

I cannot wholely agree, the Bin Tak is still superb, too many people seem to write it off in favour of the G'Vrahn. I know which one I would want to drop in the middle of an enemy formation!
I do still believe the E-Mines are the defining factor. Give the G'Vrahn back it's interceptors and command, and give it one shotters, with the bigger Bin Tak carrying slow loading, such a simple solution, it was even voted on as a good solution... pah.. .

If the G'Vrahn had simply dropped from slow-loading to one-shot e-mines then it would still have been very overpowered. Now in losing the interceptors it is a lot weaker (probably up to 20% easier to kill) and makes it into exactly what it ought to be - a high tech but ultimately more fragile version of the Narn ship philosophy.

Same with the Bin'Tak, it didn't need beefing up, it's already just fine. Just because another ship in the main fleet list is overpowered doesn't mean that you should boost every other ship in that fleet (at that PL).

 

[Greg Smith]

@ Greg - But aren't the E-Mines on the G'Quonth single shot

Nope.

 

[Digger]

Does that mean its not the pile of poo we all think it is? :wink:

I really must stop taking the piss and declare the real purpose is an attempt to gett he Bin'Tak improved - Lateral Logic!

 

[H]

I cannot wholely agree, the Bin Tak is still superb, too many people seem to write it off in favour of the G'Vrahn. I know which one I would want to drop in the middle of an enemy formation!
I do still believe the E-Mines are the defining factor. Give the G'Vrahn back it's interceptors and command, and give it one shotters, with the bigger Bin Tak carrying slow loading, such a simple solution, it was even voted on as a good solution... pah.. .

If the G'Vrahn had simply dropped from slow-loading to one-shot e-mines then it would still have been very overpowered. Now in losing the interceptors it is a lot weaker (probably up to 20% easier to kill) and makes it into exactly what it ought to be - a high tech but ultimately more fragile version of the Narn ship philosophy.

Same with the Bin'Tak, it didn't need beefing up, it's already just fine. Just because another ship in the main fleet list is overpowered doesn't mean that you should boost every other ship in that fleet (at that PL).

well, overpowered in your opinion, I recall a 50-50 split on the issue. I was always torn, but then i play m,ostly versus stealth boneheads or cheesy ISA so get spanked a lot!. However the point of the mine swapping was to equal out the G'Vrahn and BinTak making it a choice for the Narn player instead of just plumping for the G'Vrahn time and again.

on the basis of "boosting ships" as a playtester you have seen every incarnation of most ships, so I am sure you know that from first ed to now, some ships have been HUGELY boosted. remember how many dice the Sharlin used to have on it's beam? remember how the G'Quan USED to look? (and it's still pooh) power creep is the nature of the game and ACTA has embraced it hugely.

 

[Triggy]

The power creep is true but only in specific areas. Once there was a dedicated core of playtesters and a few "benchmark" ships established (along with a rough policy of a ship is almost twice as good as one in the PL below) then every ship got brought into line (or at least that was the aim).

For patrol, battle and war PLs this meant boosts on the whole and was most noticable for war PL ships. Unless in huge games, in a competitive environment high PL ships weren't ever worth it before when lower PL ships were available. At least now we're having the debate rather than everyone agreeing and going home to a game where the fleets were agreed in advance to ensure "fair" games.

 

[Ripple]

That is true, at least we moved on to a more honest conversation on what the standard is.