Who would like to see a Map Based Campaign System?
- Thread starter Grunvald
- Start date
No. 1 Bear
Mongoose
theres no rr.
You just play and move on.
No tracking of rr or fleets.
Choose what you want for the battle. Easy simple as its allready big enough.
You just play and move on.
No tracking of rr or fleets.
Choose what you want for the battle. Easy simple as its allready big enough.
So if peoples want a campaign map system, lets stat having a few ideas thrown in here about what people want to see in it!
1 Map. well we got that i have just finished hexagon mapping the B5 galaxy onto 4 sheets of A4. But have found that there are 2 planets with no names. 1 is a Lumati world (top right) another is above the Moradi system and below the Torta regency (bottom left).
2. Set fleet limits?
3. Predetermined system targets or random generated? or mix of both (ie certain locations like homeworlds getting jump gate and a settled world!)
4. One thing that has become very obvious in our campaign is that the other duties charts are not 100% compatible, so there would need to be some alterations on those lists!
5. Set scenarios depending upon the situation and variable scenarios as well!
EDIT:
for those interested heres a link for my hex map of B5 for world!
http://www.mediafire.com/?wcmxgy4c5nn
1 Map. well we got that i have just finished hexagon mapping the B5 galaxy onto 4 sheets of A4. But have found that there are 2 planets with no names. 1 is a Lumati world (top right) another is above the Moradi system and below the Torta regency (bottom left).
2. Set fleet limits?
3. Predetermined system targets or random generated? or mix of both (ie certain locations like homeworlds getting jump gate and a settled world!)
4. One thing that has become very obvious in our campaign is that the other duties charts are not 100% compatible, so there would need to be some alterations on those lists!
5. Set scenarios depending upon the situation and variable scenarios as well!
EDIT:
for those interested heres a link for my hex map of B5 for world!
http://www.mediafire.com/?wcmxgy4c5nn
cthol24601
Mongoose
We had a simple system of making a map with about 10m planets for each faction competing and a 10 point war fleet each to start with. When people had battles a raid level battle would have 1 planet shange sides from one to the other, a battle level 2, war 3 etc. People came in with confirmation of the battles and anecdotes from it. We would then change the colour of the planets to represent which faction owned what, work out ship upgrades, losses and re-enforcements and write up an ISN news stories with web pics etc to make a narrative for each weeks play. Was a lot of fun and creative with battle reports etc.
CZuschlag
Mongoose
People are talking about RR as buying units --- but I'm not buying it. The new ship build rates are likely very, very low. Let's take some perspective from the best "balanced" war in the B5 Universe, the Narn War of Retribution (all references sourced from AoG's manual on the subject, which is pseudocanon.)
The whole war lasted, from opening salvoes as Quadrants 1 and 21, 26 weeks (one half a year). During that period, the Centauri reinforcements took the form almost solely of reactivations from mothballed fleet units. I see no references to new construction during the war on most of the ships. Similarly, the text refers to the Narn starting their END (Emergency Naval Development) program almost immediately after winning their liberation in 2209. It is reasonable to assume that the early designs (which we do not see) and early expansion took up much of the Narn efforts likely through 2220 or so.
This leaves approximately 30 years for final END development efforts. The Narn do not seem to have plotted this war in advance; they were not bashful about the possibility, but it was not a war of aggression. From this, I conclude that the END effort likely continued at a relatively constant level of development over the previous 30 years.
Additional wartime mobilizations were likely needed to provide the supply, fuel, resources, and manpower necessary for conquest. As a first order of estimation, it is likely that the Narn Empire was capable of reconstructing perhaps 5-7% of their total naval deployment through END in a given year. Given that the Narn War of Retribution lasted 26 weeks, this means that a total of 3% of all Narn vessels deployed during the War of Retribution were constructed during the war. Short-term acceleration is possible during the campaign, but unlikely. This is a shockingly low level of reconstruction compared to attrition losses.
Note that this speaks to captial ships. Non-jump capable vessels and fighters which can be isolated may have been able to be constructed, but could not be leveraged. We do not, therefore, know the replacement rate for small vessels and surface installations.
So, if you can't expect in a Grand Strategy game to rebuild entire Navies .... what the heck are RR?
I contend that RR are an abstraction of the advantages of supply, mobilization, lines of communication, and fuel efficiency. It also reflects supply and Space Superiority necessary to perform in-system repairs to return vessels to fighting condition. In the case of Auxilliary Craft, it is likely their replacements, as well.
Given that the Carrier is likely the only vessel that can take losses and return to a fight, this means the Fleet Carrier and its mates are major elements of Strategic warfare of Major Powers.
Note this reflects insights to the Narn economy. Centauri have a slightly differenct economic system; the large quantities of mothballed vessels provide a reinforcement pool that few (if any!) other nationalities have. EA seems to rebuild navies at a shocking rate, given the substantial losses during the Dilgar War (2231-2232), total reconstruction of forces following the EA-Minbari War of 2245-2247 (wherein some substantial reinforcements must have been deployed), and then re-engaged in the Clark Civil War of 2262. This suggest the Earth Alliance is able to reconstruct major fleets within a 15-20 year window, for a more substantial base 6% construction rate, similar to the Narn. However, given the enhancement in techonology over the same timespans including the development of the Omega-class, EA construction rates may be even higher. The relatively slow speed of the Minbari advance may be an insight into deficiencies in their logistics capabilities, construction or otherwise. The Minbari construction rate is also likely shockingly low for such an advanced race.
I'll stop rambling. My point is that RR's aren't replacements. We have to show exactly what they are, however.
The whole war lasted, from opening salvoes as Quadrants 1 and 21, 26 weeks (one half a year). During that period, the Centauri reinforcements took the form almost solely of reactivations from mothballed fleet units. I see no references to new construction during the war on most of the ships. Similarly, the text refers to the Narn starting their END (Emergency Naval Development) program almost immediately after winning their liberation in 2209. It is reasonable to assume that the early designs (which we do not see) and early expansion took up much of the Narn efforts likely through 2220 or so.
This leaves approximately 30 years for final END development efforts. The Narn do not seem to have plotted this war in advance; they were not bashful about the possibility, but it was not a war of aggression. From this, I conclude that the END effort likely continued at a relatively constant level of development over the previous 30 years.
Additional wartime mobilizations were likely needed to provide the supply, fuel, resources, and manpower necessary for conquest. As a first order of estimation, it is likely that the Narn Empire was capable of reconstructing perhaps 5-7% of their total naval deployment through END in a given year. Given that the Narn War of Retribution lasted 26 weeks, this means that a total of 3% of all Narn vessels deployed during the War of Retribution were constructed during the war. Short-term acceleration is possible during the campaign, but unlikely. This is a shockingly low level of reconstruction compared to attrition losses.
Note that this speaks to captial ships. Non-jump capable vessels and fighters which can be isolated may have been able to be constructed, but could not be leveraged. We do not, therefore, know the replacement rate for small vessels and surface installations.
So, if you can't expect in a Grand Strategy game to rebuild entire Navies .... what the heck are RR?
I contend that RR are an abstraction of the advantages of supply, mobilization, lines of communication, and fuel efficiency. It also reflects supply and Space Superiority necessary to perform in-system repairs to return vessels to fighting condition. In the case of Auxilliary Craft, it is likely their replacements, as well.
Given that the Carrier is likely the only vessel that can take losses and return to a fight, this means the Fleet Carrier and its mates are major elements of Strategic warfare of Major Powers.
Note this reflects insights to the Narn economy. Centauri have a slightly differenct economic system; the large quantities of mothballed vessels provide a reinforcement pool that few (if any!) other nationalities have. EA seems to rebuild navies at a shocking rate, given the substantial losses during the Dilgar War (2231-2232), total reconstruction of forces following the EA-Minbari War of 2245-2247 (wherein some substantial reinforcements must have been deployed), and then re-engaged in the Clark Civil War of 2262. This suggest the Earth Alliance is able to reconstruct major fleets within a 15-20 year window, for a more substantial base 6% construction rate, similar to the Narn. However, given the enhancement in techonology over the same timespans including the development of the Omega-class, EA construction rates may be even higher. The relatively slow speed of the Minbari advance may be an insight into deficiencies in their logistics capabilities, construction or otherwise. The Minbari construction rate is also likely shockingly low for such an advanced race.
I'll stop rambling. My point is that RR's aren't replacements. We have to show exactly what they are, however.
) are Repairs and Reinforcements!mrambassador1
Mongoose
RR are a good and simple way to allow for the construction of new ships based on income from planets. Most wargames follow some form of build new units each turn, then move and fight with them. Sure in reality it takes far longer to build a battleship than it does to move one across the atlantic, but its more simple and fun to build and move rather than build a unit, play 50 turns, then build another unit. Using RR to build ships in a map based campaign may not be that accurate, but its fun and simple.
As it stands with the current campaign rules. I always took RR to be an abstraction of logistics and campaign significance. When you "buy" replacement ships with RR, you're not building them, its more that the extra ships are transferred from other sectors to support the campaign to take the system. Kind of like when Gen Franklin took Akdor (GROPOS ep), none of his ships were built for the campaign, they were just transferred from cake and biscuit runs to a more important duty.
As it stands with the current campaign rules. I always took RR to be an abstraction of logistics and campaign significance. When you "buy" replacement ships with RR, you're not building them, its more that the extra ships are transferred from other sectors to support the campaign to take the system. Kind of like when Gen Franklin took Akdor (GROPOS ep), none of his ships were built for the campaign, they were just transferred from cake and biscuit runs to a more important duty.
l33tpenguin
Mongoose
I've been working on an abstraction of Axis & Allies as a basis for an ACtA campaign system. Its mostly finished, with exception to a hold up in how to work out movement. I'm stuck on that because simultaneous movement results in a lot of hyperspace battles. Although I think I just had an idea...
Anyway, I agree with the whole building of ships in a map based campaign. its fun, even if it isn't accurate.
Anyway, I agree with the whole building of ships in a map based campaign. its fun, even if it isn't accurate.
For those of you how are interested here is a link to download a copy of the rules i've been working on.
Appropriate thought out comments would be appreciated!!
As well as suggestions.
There are comments on the end of what is still to be added!
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=f22b05b27c69b6add2db6fb9a8902bda
Appropriate thought out comments would be appreciated!!
As well as suggestions.
There are comments on the end of what is still to be added!
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=f22b05b27c69b6add2db6fb9a8902bda
While amending my campaign rules i've been going through the main ACTA rule book, and would really like to know who proof read them!
been having a giggle every now and then, p96 Observation out post suddenly becomes a Scientific outpost :shock:
p97 unusual features, now how can you roll more than a 6 on 1D6 :?:
Just plain silly!
been having a giggle every now and then, p96 Observation out post suddenly becomes a Scientific outpost :shock:
p97 unusual features, now how can you roll more than a 6 on 1D6 :?:
Just plain silly!
Sci_Fi_Fan
Mongoose
This idea is great - i was looking in the past for such a commercial system (not fan-made)-but without success.
To handle your resources to build your fleet(s) of ships and explore new resources (planets, asteroids ...) and fight against each other is my dream of space-simulation ( on board) games.
For this i can use my miniatures of space ships.
In the past i know such a system here in germany from the perry rhodan books ( a great story of the human future history , which first publication is from 1962 and each week one new story is published: so today there are exists more than 2450 books of 62 pages - and i own all of it! ).
i know also a system of a board game , in which you can easy build your country with your resources - called " Die Siedler von Catan" (Settlers of Catan)- but this is only a resource needed game without fightings and armys - and it plays in a fantasy world not in the SciFi space "ambiente".
To play such a system, today you only can play it on PC ( for example my hot loved PC-Game "X")
To handle your resources to build your fleet(s) of ships and explore new resources (planets, asteroids ...) and fight against each other is my dream of space-simulation ( on board) games.
For this i can use my miniatures of space ships.
In the past i know such a system here in germany from the perry rhodan books ( a great story of the human future history , which first publication is from 1962 and each week one new story is published: so today there are exists more than 2450 books of 62 pages - and i own all of it! ).
i know also a system of a board game , in which you can easy build your country with your resources - called " Die Siedler von Catan" (Settlers of Catan)- but this is only a resource needed game without fightings and armys - and it plays in a fantasy world not in the SciFi space "ambiente".
To play such a system, today you only can play it on PC ( for example my hot loved PC-Game "X")
