White Star fleet

Want to clarifiy something...

Some of us do not have the Arm. book/pdf in hand and have to go off the SFoS stats and what we've been told. So before you go getting indignant about someone saying you have better dogfighters when an Arm. change is the equalizing factor you might want to mention that in addition to the other changes in Arm. EA fighters got generally better.

Do not know about you folks but Arm. is beginning to make me feel like the GW army books. Did you get your last update book? No...well do not apply to this cause all my stuff got upgrades, and your stuff is not even legal anymore. When do my drazi get re-written so I can get better fighters and a super skirmish hull.

On topic we have the lightning canon debate.

Someone was commenting that the other weapons damage was about even and number of crits was even. Did they take into account that the cirt damage was going to be triple rather than double? Or did the Vic's nuetron laser improve?

Ripple
 
yes crit damage is tripled but you cant take into account every crit, so its about equal before crits in one turn. the number of crits is actually greater with its secondarys due to having more dice but more damaging with the lightning canon obviously. however you then get to fire the equal damage weapons again next round therefore causing double the damage of a lightning canon plus even more crit chances and even with the nuetron laser only being a double damage weapon it gets its chances over 2 turns and is easier to CAF with.

plus as someone once said in a post, you cant rely on crits in this game, which if you dont do that makes all the secondarys far better than the lightning canon.
 
As a kill shot (especially against a hull 5 vessel with a scout re-directing) it is a fantastic weapon - however its only 2AD better than the adiras heavy neutron cannon and that isnt Bore-sighted or restricted to only fire every other turn - yes the Victory has more damage AA and interceptors than the adira (which has a GEG) but overall the victory feels like a suport vessel designed to sail in taking a lot of flack on the way and engange and destroy multiple smaller targets simultaneously rather than go toe-to-toe with other similar sized ships. Especially with its incredible speed for a vessel of its size i think of all the Armageddon ships this is the one that would fair best taken on its own in a 1 Armageddon FAP as has been suggested elsewhere.

All that said i think it fits nicely within the ISA list - the WS /WS-2 / WS-Fighters are all great at engagneing and hurting larger ships and th eWS-Carrier is just a good all round ship - therfore having the Vic to nail smaller ships that could get inthe way of the other elements of the fleet is a good addition - shame that they wont often get used unless 2 Armageddon FAP games become more popular
 
Goldritter said:
Reborn said:
Going back to the fighters debate - a fluff point in question. During the EM war 6 Starfuries were destroyed to every 1 Nial in dogfighting. So Starfuries shouldn't really be as good as they are imo.
Click to expand...

This is only statistical and don´t inform you how much Nials are on the Battlefield. If you look at the Movie ("In the Beginning" I think") you see, that the Minbari used only Sharlins to attack.
And the only EA Ships with more than one flight of Starfury were the Nova and the Avenger. And the main Battle Ship was the Hyperion with only one flight.

And if I remember the fluff right, it was the Starfury which was the most effectiv "ship" in the war. And that was the reason why the Omega was build. To get a ship with the arment of the Hyperion and the fighter complement of the Nova.

So you got only the Information how many Starfuries were destroyed for one Nial. Not how.
For example the Sharlin with it´s Fusion Cannons has shot down many Starfuries before the Nials attack.
Click to expand...
That's why I clarified "in dogfighting". When dogfighting Furies vs Nials it was 6 - 1.
 
Then the question how many Nials came to one Starfury. If the Starfuries were outnumbered I can beleve these numbers.

Like I said the Sharlin brings in 4 flights and the Hyperion only 1.
And the Hyperion and not the Nova was the main battle ship at these days.
 
David - the fluff may state one thing but the reality is that the victory in its armageddon configuration is much better suited to engaging multiple smaller ships than 1 single larger one
 
did a victory versus adira on vassal. the victory just lost after getting the adira 1 point off crippled. there was about 10 crits on each ship with not much movement going on anywhere (adira -4 move, victory 2x 0 speed, no SA crits), the adira was needing 4s to fire wapons but the victory had lost forward guns, altho that left plenty of turret guns. damn AA on that thing takes ages to get down tho and if it can go toe to toe with an adira without firing the lightning canon it can definately take on any other armageddon ship currently out there.

one thing alot of you may not have noticed, the Brivoki has an 8AD TD beam, this is almost as good except not SAP or precise but still TD even if slow loading thats basically the same as the lightning canon except the Brivoki can continue to fight and use its 8AD SAP precise DD beam as well :)
 
Kattader - must say i am slightly suprised by your results (not doubting them in any way though) - its just that the victory feels like a ship designed to soak up damages whilst laying waste toe a multitude of smaller vessels whilst the adira just looks and feels like a heavyweight brawler - unsutble straight up the middle carving great holes in things along the way
 
think it was mainly the adira getting the spd0 no SA crit early on that decided it, then when the victory lost its other beam it was severly outgunned but like i said crits were everywhere, the adira besides its -4 speed crit had about 3 -2 speed crits, unable to fire to its starboard and took 2 6,6 crits. but they both have a similar amount of secondaries, with the adira have DD secondaries too. very well matched ships, if not for the lack of movement think the victory could have won.
 
Really just prooves that theory gaming is no substitute for actually pitting ships against each other and that looking at sets of stats is even worse for working out how things will perform :)
 
Kinda yes, but never discount theorymachine.

Going in unprepared is a bad idea.

OTOH there is always that case of the lucky crit......

Or the case of: "Everything but a 1 now, please..."
 
ubertechie said:
Really just prooves that theory gaming is no substitute for actually pitting ships against each other and that looking at sets of stats is even worse for working out how things will perform :)
Click to expand...
Actually it proves luck can happen, and I don't think anyone is disputing that!
 
Luck happens.....

its just the problem that the bank of luck shouldnt be out at the wrong moment.

Or you get only the bad version, cause your still in debt......
 
Goldritter said:
Reborn said:
Going back to the fighters debate - a fluff point in question. During the EM war 6 Starfuries were destroyed to every 1 Nial in dogfighting. So Starfuries shouldn't really be as good as they are imo.
Click to expand...

This is only statistical and don´t inform you how much Nials are on the Battlefield. If you look at the Movie ("In the Beginning" I think") you see, that the Minbari used only Sharlins to attack.
And the only EA Ships with more than one flight of Starfury were the Nova and the Avenger. And the main Battle Ship was the Hyperion with only one flight.
Click to expand...

On top of the number of the flights each capital ship carried was that there were always more Minbari ships anyway - they weren't constrained by some (alledgedly) balanced points & priority system.
 
Ripple said:
Do not know about you folks but Arm. is beginning to make me feel like the GW army books. Did you get your last update book? No...well do not apply to this cause all my stuff got upgrades, and your stuff is not even legal anymore. When do my drazi get re-written so I can get better fighters and a super skirmish hull.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I was thinking :(

Cannot say what I am hearing about Armeggedon is filling me the desire to go out and buy it. In fact, its putting me off the game as a whole... :x
 
It is.

But i have really got to order the book soon, and read it.

Do Narns burrow? Cause i like to play turtle.....though my opponent will want to digress. Its prolly an aggresive defense, or offensive bunkerring ^^.
 
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