Which ships don't you use, and why?

[AdmiralGrafSpee]

My main opponent plays Romulans and I play fed. There two ships we don't use but would like to - they just don't seem worth their points:

Romulan: Firehawk - 225pts.

If command is worth 25pts, this ship really got the shaft compared to the novahawk. More hull and command for only 15pts. I think perhaps the Novahawk pricing is more or less correct and the Firehawk is just way too expensive. Possibly it should be 210pts or so?


Federation NCF - 205pts.

It is curious that the CF is the same price as the CA - but the NCF is 15pts more than the NCA. That doesn't really make any sense. What is more irritating though is that the NCF has no phaser 3's. While I don't own that particular SSD in SFB, I'm pretty sure it should have one PH-3 on each of LS and RS. I think they are even visible on the rendering in the rulebook.

Please, someone fix these two ships!

-Tim

 

[McKinstry]

My main opponent plays Romulans and I play fed. There two ships we don't use but would like to - they just don't seem worth their points:

Romulan: Firehawk - 225pts.

If command is worth 25pts, this ship really got the shaft compared to the novahawk. More hull and command for only 15pts. I think perhaps the Novahawk pricing is more or less correct and the Firehawk is just way too expensive. Possibly it should be 210pts or so?


Federation NCF - 205pts.

It is curious that the CF is the same price as the CA - but the NCF is 15pts more than the NCA. That doesn't really make any sense. What is more irritating though is that the NCF has no phaser 3's. While I don't own that particular SSD in SFB, I'm pretty sure it should have one PH-3 on each of LS and RS. I think they are even visible on the rendering in the rulebook.

Please, someone fix these two ships!

-Tim

I agree about both. Those are simply point values I don't understand.

From a Romulan viewpoint, what do you think of the Snipe? I'm just not seeing the value of it at 120 when you can get a Battle Hawk for the same price.

 

[AdmiralGrafSpee]

I agree about both. Those are simply point values I don't understand.

From a Romulan viewpoint, what do you think of the Snipe? I'm just not seeing the value of it at 120 when you can get a Battle Hawk for the same price.

The Battlehawk certainly has the edge in raw firepower, but the snipe is vastly more maneuverable. Being able to do a 180 while under cloak has its advantages!

I do think you have to error slightly on the conservative side for small cheap ships, because if you price them too low you are likely to see them spammed (e.g. 9 Fed DWD fleet).


On another note, a very minor quibble, but I would have rathered the Fed OCL had 20 hull and the "armoured" trait. I know is almost the same thing, but it would have given it a little more to be special - and with less hull it means it hurts my own fleet a bit less when it blows up (cause you know its going to!) :lol:

-Tim

 

[Rambler]

Federation NCF - 205pts.

It is curious that the CF is the same price as the CA - but the NCF is 15pts more than the NCA. That doesn't really make any sense. What is more irritating though is that the NCF has no phaser 3's. While I don't own that particular SSD in SFB, I'm pretty sure it should have one PH-3 on each of LS and RS. I think they are even visible on the rendering in the rulebook.

Please, someone fix these two ships!

-Tim

Just confirming that NCF never had Phaser 3s from day one. It seems wrong but the ACTA Data is right. As far as why it is 15 points more who knows.

 

[AdmiralGrafSpee]

Just confirming that NCF never had Phaser 3s from day one. It seems wrong but the ACTA Data is right. As far as why it is 15 points more who knows.

Thanks for that note. Not having the SFB SSD for it I wasn't aware of that. I wonder what the reason was - but given that it really should be a few points less!

-Tim

 

[TJHairball]

My main opponent plays Romulans and I play fed. There two ships we don't use but would like to - they just don't seem worth their points:

Romulan: Firehawk - 225pts.

If command is worth 25pts, this ship really got the shaft compared to the novahawk. More hull and command for only 15pts. I think perhaps the Novahawk pricing is more or less correct and the Firehawk is just way too expensive. Possibly it should be 210pts or so?


Federation NCF - 205pts.

It is curious that the CF is the same price as the CA - but the NCF is 15pts more than the NCA. That doesn't really make any sense. What is more irritating though is that the NCF has no phaser 3's. While I don't own that particular SSD in SFB, I'm pretty sure it should have one PH-3 on each of LS and RS. I think they are even visible on the rendering in the rulebook.

Please, someone fix these two ships!

-Tim

I agree about both. Those are simply point values I don't understand.

From a Romulan viewpoint, what do you think of the Snipe? I'm just not seeing the value of it at 120 when you can get a Battle Hawk for the same price.

In my opinion, which is echoed by the fellows in my group, the Snipe, Battle Hawk, and War Eagle are all very comparable ships.

We think they should all be priced no higher than around 100 points. They just aren't that impressive.

 

[McKinstry]

I was thinking of running a game with maybe 1500+ points of Snipe, Battle Hawk, War Eagle type ships only verus a 1,000 point Fed task group of 1 X CA and the rest OCL and FF. The SFU equivalent of Omdurman once the Romulan fleets are out and painted.

 

[gord314]

Just as a test we played a game with 11 Snipes against 6 Federation New Light Cruisers and 1 Burke. The Federation got consistently solid luck and carried the day handily, had the Federation had consistently slightly bad luck, it probably would have gone the other way so it wasn't a terrible match up, but 120 for a snipe does seem to high.

 

[Da Boss]

Normally that level of difference between fleet numbers gives a huge advantage in sinking alone....

 

[McKinstry]

Normally that level of difference between fleet numbers gives a huge advantage in sinking alone....

It does but with the Snipe fragile enough to kill with phasers while still under cloak, I think it might be an interesting fight. :idea:

Gord314's numbers were 875 v 1320 so this might work out. All Snipes might be a better idea as the War Eagle is really a turkey.

 

[Da Boss]

Are you playing with terrain - if so, fragile ships don't have to be shot at

 

[gord314]

Also, since you can only move 6" while under cloak, it is fairly easy to predict were the snipes are going. You could use some sinking the turn you decloak, but decloaking with only half your fleet is usually not a great plan, especially when they are all snipes.

To be fair though, taking all of one ship, especially snipes, is probably a poor choice.

PS. Da Boss, for that match we weren't, though in an all snipe fleet if some of your snipes are hiding, the rest get shot, and if your whole fleet is hiding nothing is happening at all.

 

[Da Boss]

Hmm we have talked about this before - I still subscribe (and Play) that a ship making your opponent move how you want (by in sinking) is getting its woints worth - even if it does not shoot for a few turns.

Although to be honest I don't think we ever play ACTA without terrain.

The snipe can't take hits but it does have 20 shields and Armoured - if your In sinks are working right - it should only have to face phasers and then the threat is the ones that roll a 6 to hit.

and you should be firing first

 

[gord314]

In general yes, but I was referring to the all snipe fleet, sorry about the confusion

 

[McKinstry]

Hmm we have talked about this before - I still subscribe (and Play) that a ship making your opponent move how you want (by in sinking) is getting its woints worth - even if it does not shoot for a few turns.

Although to be honest I don't think we ever play ACTA without terrain.

The snipe can't take hits but it does have 20 shields and Armoured - if your In sinks are working right - it should only have to face phasers and then the threat is the ones that roll a 6 to hit.

and you should be firing first

And thus the fun. If you stay in cloak, the phaser heavy Feds can stay at a distance whanging away and looking for shield penetrations whereas if you decloak and rush them, they'll kill a bunch but maybe not enough. Kind of an Omdurman thing with your Snipes as hordes of Fuzzi Wuzzi's. Do you sneak up and then rush, risking getting beaten up in detail on approach or just charge and let your mass carry you through? With an all Snipe fleet and the Feds with a CC, the initiative would be even so it could be a very interesting scenario.

 

[tneva82]

To be fair though, taking all of one ship, especially snipes, is probably a poor choice.

That should at least be the ideal scenario Something similar to total war: shogun 2 I have been playing lately on PC. Diverse army is generally better than unbalanced force.

For laughs I even tried up loading up on gatling guns big time and see if they could simply blast the enemy apart as they try to close. Didn't work. Terrain was very favourable in that there was wide area conveniently wide enough for gatling guns maximum range. Set up effective crossfire. Enemy just marched onward, took horrendous casualties but reached the gatling guns and then slaughtered several groups routing nearby ones in the process.

And this was against AI. Smart human general could have diverted some infantry to flank me through forrests and if I shown sign of relocating gatling guns to deal with outflanking forces(provided I even manage to see them in time) simply rush in cavalry that would await out of range of gatling guns. I relocate, it's going to take a time to set them up and time is not what I would have if several groups of cavalry are charging in...

If game can have such a balance then there's something done right

 

[Totenkopf]

Total War has always downplayed or accurately portrayed the role of siege weapons, but all cav forces have done well in most Total War games except Empire, but in Empire you could easily win with all line infantry if properly upgraded.

But yeah, as far as this game goes, there doesn't seem to be one über ship that you can win with a fleet consisting of only that ship. Which does point to fair game balance.

On a side note, if Lumbering is removed from dreads, will the C8 be adjusted point wise or trait wise to remain competitive?

 

[Da Boss]

I am hoping that the C8 will drop closer to the now non lumbering Fed Dreadnought as they are about even in capabilities

 

[Totenkopf]

I am hoping that the C8 will drop closer to the now non lumbering Fed Dreadnought as they are about even in capabilities

Drop or boost, either way.

 

[TJHairball]

It is actually generally viable to use all one ship in ACTA:SF, for the good ships.

For example, a perfectly reasonable well-rounded 1000 point list for Klingons (it only lacks a command +1 trait) is 5xD5W + 1xE4. I've used it; it's great.