Which ships don't you use, and why?

[TJHairball]

For myself, I tend to avoid using the D6, C8, and E4.

The E4 because I like the F5's shield score - so good at being a fire magnet! - even if the E4 is, point for point, about as efficient.

The D6 because if I can afford to upgrade it, I should.

The C8 I'm extremely reluctant to take because it dies horribly most of the times I take it - it just can't maneuver with the rest of the Klingon fleet.

What ships do you dislike using, and why?

 

[billclo]

For myself, I tend to avoid using the D6, C8, and E4.

The E4 because I like the F5's shield score - so good at being a fire magnet! - even if the E4 is, point for point, about as efficient.

The D6 because if I can afford to upgrade it, I should.

The C8 I'm extremely reluctant to take because it dies horribly most of the times I take it - it just can't maneuver with the rest of the Klingon fleet.

What ships do you dislike using, and why?

Some of my distaste for certain ships come from my days of playing F&E. Certain ships just stink combat-wise, and some stink-repair efficiency wise. E4s are relegated to securing provinces, E4A (escorts) get run through the repair depot and base-hulled as fast as can be managed.

ACTA:SF, I don't care for the D6 so much. I like the slightly more expensive D5. While it takes a little less damage, it's superior FH disruptor arcs, ADD 2, and good phaser suite make it a more desirable choice to me. Not to mention it's 2D6 shield Boost vs 1D6 boost for the D6.

I don't care for the E4, but if I have 75 pts left over, I'll get one.

I haven't used the C8 yet, so can't comment there.

The C7 is definitely a nice ship if you can manage to overcome it's limitations in maneuverability.

I wish we had F5Ls in the game. But they're only slightly better than standard F5.

I was surprised how decent what I though was an old crappy ship: the Fed OCL. It took a surprising amount of damage to kill it, and with 6 P-1 and 2 Photons for 130 pts, not bad at all.
f

 

[Pavlov Grenadier]

For Kzinti Ships, here are mine:

I’m not a fan of the FF at all. It has no ADD, low shields, one 15" Disruptor and costs way to much...for 30 more points, I get the amazing DW (and the FF actually lost a point of Ph-3 with new errata for no points reduction...doh :wink: )

The Standard BC is pretty nice for its points but no ADD makes me nervous against some fleets.

I cant possibly see a reason to take the BCH. No ADD, only ok weapons AND lumbering 9...ugg...
(edit: On further consideration, I might take it against the Gorn :lol: )

I’ve taken the DN once and while a pretty good ship all around (weapons and defense), the Lumbering 9 is pretty painful. I would probably take that in bigger games tho.

Ive not taken the Fast Cruiser (BCF) yet but struggle with the decision vs. the cheaper and better armed NCA (or the equivalently priced command NCA).

I’ve started to gravitate towards a core fleet of only DWs and NCAs in my recent games and while they perform admirably, its a bit boring to really only have 2-3 good ships (I know there are more on the way so its not a complaint, just an observation...well, maybe its a complaint disguised as an observation? :wink: )

 

[MongooseMatt]

I was surprised how decent what I though was an old crappy ship: the Fed OCL. It took a surprising amount of damage to kill it, and with 6 P-1 and 2 Photons for 130 pts, not bad at all.
f

A lot of people seem to avoid the Old Light Cruiser but yes, it is a good little ship for really not very many points!

 

[billclo]

I was surprised how decent what I though was an old crappy ship: the Fed OCL. It took a surprising amount of damage to kill it, and with 6 P-1 and 2 Photons for 130 pts, not bad at all.
f

A lot of people seem to avoid the Old Light Cruiser but yes, it is a good little ship for really not very many points!

And I forgot to add, it's Turn 4, not 6 like the rest of the mainline Fed Cruisers. :mrgreen:

 

[Captain Jonah]

Which ships do I avoid taking. Its a long list.

DD, now agile but still a poor choice considering the BDD is 5 points more.
CL. Lots of plasmas, NOT LUMBERING, erm ok lots of plasmas. Poor Phasers, very squishy, very expensive for something so squishy.
BC. Not as good as the CM for the points, LUMBERING.
Fast Cruiser. Lots of Phasers, LUMBERING
DN. Big and tough, LUMBERING, turn mode 9, LUMBERING, lots of plasmas and some phasers, did I mention LUMBERING. Only take this when I'm in a mood for a less serious game to replace a BCH.

How about which ships I will take, its a much smaller list :lol:

BDD, Agile, 20 shields, 7AD of Plasma.

HDD, Tough, decent firepower if a bit light on Phasers (its the Gorn fleet, everyone is light on Phasers since the last Errata ) and NOT LUMBERING :roll:


For the rest, the CM or BCH depending on points or a DN if I'm looking for a silly game.


The Fed OCL is generally an exception to the rule that the war era ships are better than the pre war ones. Many of the fleets have Pre war stuff that doesn’t get used. The good old OCL just hangs on in there. :lol:

 

[TJHairball]

A lot of people seem to avoid the Old Light Cruiser but yes, it is a good little ship for really not very many points!

I haven't seen my local Feddie player take it often. He seems to much prefer taking NCLs and WDs for those sorts of slots.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact the OCL has 18 shields; 18 shields means +1d6 instead of +2d6 on a boost. All the ships it's competing with in the Federation list have 20-24 shields (FFB, WD, NCL).

 

[billclo]

A lot of people seem to avoid the Old Light Cruiser but yes, it is a good little ship for really not very many points!

I haven't seen my local Feddie player take it often. He seems to much prefer taking NCLs and WDs for those sorts of slots.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact the OCL has 18 shields; 18 shields means +1d6 instead of +2d6 on a boost. All the ships it's competing with in the Federation list have 20-24 shields (FFB, WD, NCL).

True, but minis for the NCL aren't easy to come by yet. Unless you have gotten a Fed Fleet box recently, you're out of luck and stuck with OCLs. And you can't even buy the NCLs separately yet. (I guess this is to force you to buy Reinforcements Box #7 when it comes out (whenever that actually happens). :| Same with DW miniatures.

 

[TJHairball]

A lot of people seem to avoid the Old Light Cruiser but yes, it is a good little ship for really not very many points!

I haven't seen my local Feddie player take it often. He seems to much prefer taking NCLs and WDs for those sorts of slots.

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact the OCL has 18 shields; 18 shields means +1d6 instead of +2d6 on a boost. All the ships it's competing with in the Federation list have 20-24 shields (FFB, WD, NCL).

True, but minis for the NCL aren't easy to come by yet. Unless you have gotten a Fed Fleet box recently, you're out of luck and stuck with OCLs. And you can't even buy the NCLs separately yet. (I guess this is to force you to buy Reinforcements Box #7 when it comes out (whenever that actually happens). :| Same with DW miniatures.

Well, we proxy. It would be cool to have all the models we might want for the fleets we're using, but it's pretty impractical at this point.

 

[billclo]

That will work for awhile if you have minis to proxy with, which I do not.

 

[McKinstry]

For Feds - I don't take the OCL because for the same cost I can have a 20 shield, 4 ADD ship in the DWD.

I don't take the classic CA because for 5 points more I can get a CS with the extra ADD and since they both turn liKe a non-Gorn pig, the rest is a wash and 180 points for a 1 ADD ship is wasted in a medium to high drone environment. The CA offers nothing that either the NCL or CS doesn't do better in that points bracket.

I don't take the DN because my opponents are all Klingons or Kzinti and who needs that many points that is so clumsy it spends the entire game unable to get an F arc to bear.

 

[Pavlov Grenadier]

I don't take the DN because my opponents are all Klingons or Kzinti and who needs that many points that is so clumsy it spends the entire game unable to get an F arc to bear.

Oh, com'on...take it in our next game...I promise I wont move...mwhahahaha :twisted:

 

[McKinstry]

I don't take the DN because my opponents are all Klingons or Kzinti and who needs that many points that is so clumsy it spends the entire game unable to get an F arc to bear.

Oh, com'on...take it in our next game...I promise I wont move...mwhahahaha :twisted:

Sure..Can I make it a crew quality 6? I'll even let you move.

 

[gord314]

Ships I don't take:

Burke: Its not a bad a ship, it just isn't a good initiative sink compared to the Police Cutter. The police cutter isn't quite as tough and packs less punch, but it has much more flexible weapon arcs allowing it to provide good defensive fire for a its points and act as good initiative sink, since it does not need to carefully line up shots.

Ramius FFB: There is nothing wrong with this ship, I just usually find that if I can afford 115 pts then I can afford 120 so I take a DW instead.

OCL: Because of the point values of higher cost federation ships I usually don't find myself with 130 pts left over, but when I do, I take on OCL.

CA: lacks maneuverability and firepower.

CS: I might take this in a drone heavy environment, but that is not our group.

NCF: For 25 pts less I could get a Wolverine, which is nearly as good and even has some phaser-3s.

 

[Totenkopf]

D7, 2 phaser 2 in T arc, and 3 phaser 3s in f,p,s arc for 175 points? No thanks.
C8 - too expensive for 1000 point games.
C7 - because I can get command +1 for 205, it's not agile, and...yeah...

 

[billclo]

For Feds - I don't take the OCL because for the same cost I can have a 20 shield, 4 ADD ship in the DWD.

I don't take the classic CA because for 5 points more I can get a CS with the extra ADD and since they both turn liKe a non-Gorn pig, the rest is a wash and 180 points for a 1 ADD ship is wasted in a medium to high drone environment. The CA offers nothing that either the NCL or CS doesn't do better in that points bracket.

This is all well and good if it's just a generic pickup game or tournament where anything goes. If you are playing a particular historical scenario or just ships up to X year, then the "lesser ships" like the OCL, CA, FF/FFB, CC may be all that's available.

 

[gord314]

For Feds - I don't take the OCL because for the same cost I can have a 20 shield, 4 ADD ship in the DWD.

I don't take the classic CA because for 5 points more I can get a CS with the extra ADD and since they both turn liKe a non-Gorn pig, the rest is a wash and 180 points for a 1 ADD ship is wasted in a medium to high drone environment. The CA offers nothing that either the NCL or CS doesn't do better in that points bracket.

This is all well and good if it's just a generic pickup game or tournament where anything goes. If you are playing a particular historical scenario or just ships up to X year, then the "lesser ships" like the OCL, CA, FF/FFB, CC may be all that's available.

Then they should be cheaper to compensate.

 

[billclo]

Then they should be cheaper to compensate.

Why? They're balanced point-wise against each other anyways.

Just because you can't take a D5, D5W, C7, or C8 in a particular time period or historical scenario doesn't mean you can't have a good time with less than optimum ships.

 

[gord314]

What are point values for if not to attempt to balance a game? If there were different settings for middle and early years as there are in other SFU games, that would be fine. But these are the general war versions of the ships in question, and THIS game does not include information about year in service. Also, what are the official rules for if not for tournaments and pick up games? My gaming group already has a few pages of house rules and an entirely new point system for our own games.

Also, if all the older ships are in fact balanced against each other, then it should be possible to multiply all their point values by some constant (.9 or .8 maybe) to come up with a reasonable comparison between them and the newer ships.

 

[billclo]

What are point values for if not to attempt to balance a game? If there were different settings for middle and early years as there are in other SFU games, that would be fine. But these are the general war versions of the ships in question, and THIS game does not include information about year in service. Also, what are the official rules for if not for tournaments and pick up games? My gaming group already has a few pages of house rules and an entirely new point system for our own games.

Also, if all the older ships are in fact balanced against each other, then it should be possible to multiply all their point values by some constant (.9 or .8 maybe) to come up with a reasonable comparison between them and the newer ships.

Well how about comparing SFB BPV? That's been around for years... I don't have the SFB rules anymore so I don't have the BPVs at hand.

BPV accounts for actual combat capability by and large (with a few notable exceptions).