Where's the toughness
- Thread starter sunhawk
- Start date
Greg Smith
Mongoose
Banichi said:
There are only a handful of battle-level ships in the game that have more than 55 damage. The Avioki (and its variants), the Veshatan and the Shruuta.
that was the issue I had before with the Narn...the vaunted toughness amounted to a hit or two... In no way the equal of the other defenses in the game, many of which refresh between turns. Shields will have a similar issue at the level most are set up at, nice but with the reduced damage on the abbai ships they actually lost out.
Ripple
Ripple
angelus2000
Mongoose
Actually, with the new Crit table, the Narn ships gained more resilliency. Before 2e, I saw many a G'Quan, Rongoth, Bin'tka etc, get taken out by crits before they were even crippled. Toss that in with the fact that Narn thresholds fro crippled/skeletoned are on par with ships that have between 5-10 less damage and crew....
Even if they didn't gain as much toughness as I would've thought, they're raw damage output has shot up a LOT. No more Weak Trait on thier Ion cannons means getting into knife range with a Hull 4 or 5 ships is a lot more dicey than it used to be, especially since those loads of secondary AD still have TL and lost no AD that I can see. The new Emines are way more deadly than they used to be, even Hull 6 takes a severe beating now that they have AP and TD. I watched as a Liati and 3 centurions completly vanished under 8 Dag'Kar loads of Emine AD, and that vould have done with only 4 DagKar's.
And if thier new weapons weren't enough, the new PL reshuffling clinched it. Rothan/Rongoth back to where they should be, Var'Nics are toatally viable and a very effective Raid choice, G'Kariths/G'Stens are now a lot more attractive, etc etc. About they only 3 ships I can remembing seeing as not having been tinked with was the Ka'toc ,the Thentus, and the Tloth, and all three of those were good ships to begin with.
The new Narn list is waaaay more scary in 2e, I'd frankly I expect it to be a top contender from now on.
Even if they didn't gain as much toughness as I would've thought, they're raw damage output has shot up a LOT. No more Weak Trait on thier Ion cannons means getting into knife range with a Hull 4 or 5 ships is a lot more dicey than it used to be, especially since those loads of secondary AD still have TL and lost no AD that I can see. The new Emines are way more deadly than they used to be, even Hull 6 takes a severe beating now that they have AP and TD. I watched as a Liati and 3 centurions completly vanished under 8 Dag'Kar loads of Emine AD, and that vould have done with only 4 DagKar's.
And if thier new weapons weren't enough, the new PL reshuffling clinched it. Rothan/Rongoth back to where they should be, Var'Nics are toatally viable and a very effective Raid choice, G'Kariths/G'Stens are now a lot more attractive, etc etc. About they only 3 ships I can remembing seeing as not having been tinked with was the Ka'toc ,the Thentus, and the Tloth, and all three of those were good ships to begin with.
The new Narn list is waaaay more scary in 2e, I'd frankly I expect it to be a top contender from now on.
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Aye, they do look better now, but I'm confident in the new Centauri stats. Bring it on, spotty marsupials! 
Just finished my first game under 2ed, EA (TA) vs Centauri, and i think that big ships gained in resiliency in general. Not because they have more Hull (altough some may), but because, even with several crits, your ship can still be useful.
I have had this game a Nova firing it's broadside during several turn at a Primus before finally getting him. And there were an Avenger, Three T-Bolts and an Oracle firing with him. I don't know specifically for the Narn but in general, i prefer to see a big ship slowly go down than explode under a lucky crit or become nearly useless under the same crit.
But these are only my two cents...
I have had this game a Nova firing it's broadside during several turn at a Primus before finally getting him. And there were an Avenger, Three T-Bolts and an Oracle firing with him. I don't know specifically for the Narn but in general, i prefer to see a big ship slowly go down than explode under a lucky crit or become nearly useless under the same crit.
But these are only my two cents...
angelus2000
Mongoose
Eh, don't count your chickens David. Narn didn't lose any range on the weapons as far as I could tell; except for the Elutarian, nearly all of the Centuari firepower over 18 inchs is gone. If your playing an empty board scenario, Narn will get at least the first turn of shooting unimpeded. Once range fall below 18, it will be a straight standup slugfest, but until then, CAB is your friend.
Joe_Dracos
Mongoose
CAB = Close all blast doors
Lord David the Denied
Mongoose
Yes, I'm looking forward to trying that one. Although the Vorchan has even more DD dice that can fire every turn, so I'll certainly use both...
angelus2000
Mongoose
I did say "nearly all". 
Demos is the other ship besides the elutarian with over 18 ", but those are the only 2 AFAIK. The "8 to 12" sweet spot might be a bit harder to pull off but will definitely help.
I rather like the new Centuari stats too. All that DD goodness on top of TL and loads of AD will eat anything hull 4 or 5 in short order. Thier beams stayed nearly the same AD and are DD, in short Centuari are even more capable damagewise than before. Thier guardian arrays are phenomal, I expect to see Maximus in every centuari fleet I ever face from now on. Dargan stealth helps loads.
With the exception of one ship, the new Narn list is much tougher of a cookie than before though. Cent-Narn battles I easily see as coming down to the last 2 ships on the board kind of battles.
The only real potential cheese fleet might be an all Dag'Kar fleet. At 5 Raid points, thats 30 AD of AP TD template dice, backed up by 20 SAP Precise AD, all of which is 30" range and F Arc. Even with the lack of Emine variants, the new Emines are damage monsters. The battle I mentioned in a previous post was 9 War points, 2 points of which dissapeared due to Dag'Kar Emines in the first round of firing; It could have easily been more but the Narn player has this thing about overkill.
Demos is the other ship besides the elutarian with over 18 ", but those are the only 2 AFAIK. The "8 to 12" sweet spot might be a bit harder to pull off but will definitely help.I rather like the new Centuari stats too. All that DD goodness on top of TL and loads of AD will eat anything hull 4 or 5 in short order. Thier beams stayed nearly the same AD and are DD, in short Centuari are even more capable damagewise than before. Thier guardian arrays are phenomal, I expect to see Maximus in every centuari fleet I ever face from now on. Dargan stealth helps loads.
With the exception of one ship, the new Narn list is much tougher of a cookie than before though. Cent-Narn battles I easily see as coming down to the last 2 ships on the board kind of battles.
The only real potential cheese fleet might be an all Dag'Kar fleet. At 5 Raid points, thats 30 AD of AP TD template dice, backed up by 20 SAP Precise AD, all of which is 30" range and F Arc. Even with the lack of Emine variants, the new Emines are damage monsters. The battle I mentioned in a previous post was 9 War points, 2 points of which dissapeared due to Dag'Kar Emines in the first round of firing; It could have easily been more but the Narn player has this thing about overkill.
angelus2000 said:I rather like the new Centuari stats too. All that DD goodness on top of TL and loads of AD will eat anything hull 4 or 5 in short order. Thier beams stayed nearly the same AD and are DD, in short Centuari are even more capable damagewise than before. Thier guardian arrays are phenomal, I expect to see Maximus in every centuari fleet I ever face from now on. Dargan stealth helps loads.
quote]
Yeah they are great !er the beams - only one ship has DD beams - the Morgrath - the others all loose range and DD and gain Precise (except sullust whihc just losses DD and gains precise) and of course another exception to the 18" range - it has 4 AD 24" Beams - lastly Adira has 25" beam
Should always be a Maximus!!!! Prefer Liati to Dargan but its cool to have the option / choice! Played Narn recently and the one emine (on GQoun) bounced off my two Demos on CAB!
Centauri - gotta love em!
A couple of Sullusts, a Maximus and 5 Demos would give the Dag'Kar fleet a good battle - interceptors against the Ion torps and CAB otherwise
angelus2000
Mongoose
Faulty memory on my part. I friend of mine got the 2e books and I did a readthrough of them about 4 days ago, not suprised I got some of the details wrong. DD for Precise is a fairly good trade IMO, less raw damage but crit damage has the potential for making that up in short order
