What's wrong with this Vargr?

[ShawnDriscoll]

On pg. 58 of my printing of the hardcover Mongoose Traveller, the Vargr doesn't look right. What would you guys say the problem is, if any?

 

[GamingGlen]

If it's the same version as mine, he's missing a tail and his legs are wrong as they look like human legs.

Or, it's a human wearing a badly drawn psionic helmet. :?

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Good catch. I didn't even notice the tail missing. Now the Vargr looks even worse to me.

 

[GamingGlen]

Good catch. I didn't even notice the tail missing. Now the Vargr looks even worse to me.

Typical of tailless apes.. nary a thought about tails.

You can see this in furry art as well: tails are just tacked onto the clothing without any hint of there being an opening in the fabric, nor are fashions redesigned for a species that has had a tail for it's entire existence.

 

[Reynard]

Oh... Oh! I thought it was a rabbit.

 

[alex_greene]

Good catch. I didn't even notice the tail missing. Now the Vargr looks even worse to me.

Typical of tailless apes.. nary a thought about tails.

You can see this in furry art as well: tails are just tacked onto the clothing without any hint of there being an opening in the fabric, nor are fashions redesigned for a species that has had a tail for it's entire existence.

Just one word: Chairs.

Throughout their whole existence, the Vargr would have had no place for chairs. If they'd got on the chair, they'd have got a rolled-up newspaper across the nose ...

 

[Reynard]

Tail is either curled to the side or chairs with open backs or no backs are preferred. Simple ergonomics.

 

[GamingGlen]

Heh.. reminds me when I played a foxgirl in City of Heroes and used the sitting emotes*. The swishy tail ended up sticking out of the back of solid backs of chairs and such. I started to look for chairs with backs that would allow for tails, there were a few. Park benches were definitely right out. At first I stuck to clothing that might work for having tails (wasn't many) but finally gave up and imagined the clothing she wore was fitted for tails. I don't care for capes so that wasn't an issue but I did find one that split just above the tail (cape design was called Swallowtail), so I imagine split coats and robes might be common for tailed species.


* Background was Traveller-esque: she and fellow species crewmates crash-landed on Earth, even wrote up her information, her species information and their homeworld in Traveller terms. The character impressed someone else enough in the game that they made a special base into a spaceship just for her and her fellows to go back home. It was a pretty nifty look for what they did with the limited base building options. So when City of Heroes closed down my foxgirl and her fellow species-mates flew back home.
(details on a City of Heroes-related site: http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Sienna_Fox )

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

On pg. 58 of my printing of the hardcover Mongoose Traveller, the Vargr doesn't look right. What would you guys say the problem is, if any?

Ah, the guy running away is supposed to be a Vargr?

I always thought he was a guy whose conical dunce hat had just fallen over his eyes, and the chap with the sword/armour/gun was calling for help to apprehend the lunatic.

Was I reading too much into it?

Egil

 

[mr31337]

What are the evolutionary benefits of a tail to a clothes-wearing biped? I suspect there are none, even with a little slit for it to poke out and wag or whatever. Is there any 3I lore that states Vargr have tails? :roll:

 

[Old timer]

Thing is, Vargr did not evolve, they were uplifted by the ancients, who obviously liked their servants to have tails, so the Vargr got to keep them. Following the dog idea here, a tail for a dog is a communication device, and in uplifted dog (ie the Vargr) it would probably retain some of that function (happy Vargr tails 'wags' angry Vargr tail is still and low).

 

[Reynard]

Life form design is often of the man-in-a-suit concept. Everything is based on how it fits with human form. There's usually no time to see something from the perspective of the not human being.

By rights, the vargr, and the aslan, should have clothes, funiture, vehicles and buildings designed for their physical needs. As they are fairly humanoid, much will correspond to human standards. Ears and muzzles will need adjustments for hats, breathing masks and helmets while the tail would definately take lower body covering in a different direction.

First off, both aslan and vargr are furred races. Clothing will rub and chaff causing all sorts of problems where the material rests and moves constantly. Unless the fur has thinned, clothing as insulation is redundant. If clothing is worn, it will be for other purposes such as modesty, fashion, weather protection and carry capacity. More likely, clothing will be very light material to ease contact and tails will encourage loose garments such as robes and tunics. Skirts should be the sensible replacement for pants. Pants would be for specialty functions with the tail carefully planned into the design.

 

[Reynard]

By the way, I am supposing the creators of Traveller weren't to up on human history and development. At the time the Ancients took various species from Earth at about 300,000 years ago modern humans or even neandertals would not exist for a couple hundred thousand years. H. erectus was dying out and H. heidelbergensis was in its heyday. That means modern man did a lot of evolving in that short period.

This says the humanoid and canine stock taken were both probably uplifted to different degrees for the same end, intelligent species to perform now long forgotten functions. Vilani, zhodani and other tranplanted stock actually are a separate branch from terran humans and they themselves are branches from each other as time and stellar isolation would evolve them even as terran homo sapiens were branching from the earlier forms of genus Homo.

I'd say, after the initial uplift, vargr had plenty of time to evolve beyond their original design.

 

[mr31337]

I'd say, after the initial uplift, vargr had plenty of time to evolve beyond their original design.

I'd fully agree, that is if we must stick with the OTU mumbo-jumbo about talking/walking dogs. Adaptations such as short or no tail would probably be seen in a matter of generations if it was an impediment to the species. Also, why wouldn't the vargr start to dock their own tails?

 

[F33D]

By the way, I am supposing the creators of Traveller weren't to up on human history and development. At the time the Ancients took various species from Earth at about 300,000 years ago modern humans or even neandertals would not exist for a couple hundred thousand years. H. erectus was dying out and H. heidelbergensis was in its heyday. That means modern man did a lot of evolving in that short period.

"Now, a new study of the 1967 fossil site indicates the earliest known members of our species, Homo sapiens, roamed Africa about 195,000 years ago." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/02/050223122209.htm

A more recent (this year) finding pushed this back to ~ 300,000 years ago...

 

[locarno24]

First off, both aslan and vargr are furred races. Clothing will rub and chaff causing all sorts of problems where the material rests and moves constantly. Unless the fur has thinned, clothing as insulation is redundant. If clothing is worn, it will be for other purposes such as modesty, fashion, weather protection and carry capacity. More likely, clothing will be very light material to ease contact and tails will encourage loose garments such as robes and tunics. Skirts should be the sensible replacement for pants. Pants would be for specialty functions with the tail carefully planned into the design.

I've always tended to imagine something akin to a loose 'riding coat' - full length, but with a split up to waist height at the back for the tail. Nice 'cruddy weather' protection, plenty of pockets and not too hot because of the fur.

I always figured that the various humaniti diaspora would be pre-sapiens (or at least pre-sapiens sapiens), so whilst unarguably 'human', there is a detectable difference beyond simple human ethnic variations.

 

[GamingGlen]

Why would they want to cut off their tails? Tails might be a thing of pride, to adorn in the latest fashions, such as: afro :lol: , slicked, crew cut (almost shaved), poodle-esque, bells, ribbons, charms.

I wonder if Aslan and Vargr are afflicted with mange? :mrgreen:

 

[mr31337]

lol @ mange

Worms & mange and dirty, smelly tails cos 'stuff' gets stuck in their fur since it would be difficult to raise a tail very high if you're a biped and almost impossible to use a toilet. Also, it would be annoying getting it stuck in the air lock, or in an escalator, or having one leg made bigger on your vacc suit so you can tuck it in. Call me a heretic, but the vargr as written in the OTU are in dire need of a plausible overhaul.

1970's game designer, "Dude, they're genetically engineered by the ancients, so like shut up and pass the mushrooms."

I'm not convinced at all.

 

[Reynard]

A vargr, aslan or any other tailed and/or furred sentient should have no problem with doors or clothing. Humans found ways around their five extremities and discovered skin and hair care even if only recently. One part about being smart is taking care if yourself and building, or adapting to, a world you can function. We don't normally see humans lopping off arms because they could occasionally get caught in a door or a foot because we may stub them on a man made curb. Our clothing seems perfectly fitted to four limbs and a head.

The most telling thing depicted in tail anatomy and clothes is the tail hole. No one would reallt try to shove a tail through a hole in the pants or such, they'd adapt a catch, snap, button or velcro strip back there just like the front fly.

 

[F33D]

Vargrs wouldn't have tails. When they were genetically modified to be bipedal they would have been eliminated. They wouldn't be needed in the new modified form.