whats the deal with mongoose

Nretnimoc said:
Its sad that the rules are good and the models have turned into a giant FUBARed mess.

I wonder when any actual "Brick & Mortar" game stores will actually get their merchandise or how long Mongoose will continue to funnel customers through their own store.

I have decided to simply give up and ignore this game. Shelve it till I feel like coming back to it. I refuse to be pressured into submitting to the truly outrageous shipping prices. Prices that one would not have to pay at Brick and Mortar Stores.

In the other Online Retail Stores, the shipping is no where near this expensive. For 1 fleet Box & 1 Ship blister it was 18.00$ Shipping! EIGHTEEN Dollars!

With the doubt of ever getting the product shipped to me, coupled with this unreasonable cost, Im done. Im sure you will find plenty of people desperate enough to get their hands on these but after learning that you are placing Further Delays while you ship manufacturing responsibilities to China and decide that you will be using Resin now or whatever excuse you decide to throw out there to justify the continued extortion method of "Buy from us youll get your models (eventually...maybe)..."

To hell with Mongoose.
Bye!
 
Greg Smith said:
tneva82 said:
Also btw worth pointing out they were offering those for free even when they were marketing them and releasing new models. They didn't die off because they weren't profitable or needed. GW opted to kill them deliberately 'least they create internal competition with FB/40k/LOTR...

Not with their initial releases they weren't.

Might check out history of epic armageddon. Not only rules were free but players were heavily involved in the initial playtest which was open for anybody who was interested...Maybe that's why the rules ended up such a solid in the end.
 
McKinstry said:
Battlefront offered the free version 3.0 book only for prior owners of the $55 USD v2.0 rules and once those are gone,

Sorry, ain't true. I don't have the 55$ but I could have got 3.0 rules as well. Chose not to get one as I just sold my fow collection.

The market for ACTA is not so big that there is any commercial value in pirating for profit and the limited number of players are such that out of enlightened self-interest, most any sensible gamer would shun a sleaze bag trying to play out of a scanned copy.

Piracy in ACTA happens. No point kidding yourself about it not happening. It's like being ostrich. Head in sand and pretend it doesn't happen.
 
McKinstry said:
I worked on both Armada and the second version of the Blue Book and no, BFG was and is toes up. The cruisers are plastic as are the weapons sprues, once those molds go, that's it and as far as demand, you can buy whole fleets on Ebay for the cost of a battleship in the online store.

Why you think GW would not make metal molds then to satisfy the demand? Cheap as hell for them so provided there's demand even GW is unlikely to be stupid enough not to.

Besides molds are likely good for another decade still.

Specialist did very well when supported but all the folks were transferred out or were fired. The free pdfs were the moral equivalent of an obituary and the fact that no new models were issued in the year prior or after the pdf white flag is pretty telling.

INCORRECT! PDF's weren't released for free after new model releases were stopped. They were available lot sooner than that...
 
tneva82 said:
Might check out history of epic armageddon. Not only rules were free but players were heavily involved in the initial playtest which was open for anybody who was interested...Maybe that's why the rules ended up such a solid in the end.

You mean Adeptus Titanicus/ Space Marine/ Epic 40k ?

All of which were available in shops, and came as boxed games with no free rules.

Sure, the latest version has free rules. It doesn't exactly infringe on the sales in shops though does it? Or boost the sales of miniatures in shops?
 
Greg Smith said:
tneva82 said:
Might check out history of epic armageddon. Not only rules were free but players were heavily involved in the initial playtest which was open for anybody who was interested...Maybe that's why the rules ended up such a solid in the end.

You mean Adeptus Titanicus/ Space Marine/ Epic 40k ?

All of which were available in shops, and came as boxed games with no free rules.

Sure, the latest version has free rules. It doesn't exactly infringe on the sales in shops though does it? Or boost the sales of miniatures in shops?

How it could not boost sales of miniatures in shop?-) Free good rules is excelent way to attract players to the game.

You think miniature sales happen magically without players getting drawn to game? Think again! To have miniature sales you need players. To get players you need them get interested on that. For that best advertisement ever designed is free rules.

Yeah so the 10+ year versions don't have free rules. So? Which you think average player is going to start up anyway? Old or new?

New player is considering ACTA. You think he's going to be more likely to pick up the Babylon 5 version instead of one of the current ones?

Lol.

It's newest rules that count. Old versions are dead and buried with only occasional players still playing it but sales are driven by the newest version. You don't see much of new players getting interested in Warhammer 5th ed do you? Now that FOW v3 is released you think V2 has much of attention from customers anymore?

Newest=the one customers choose as a rule of thumb.
 
tneva82 said:
How it could not boost sales of miniatures in shop?-) Free good rules is excelent way to attract players to the game.

Because Epic Armageddon (and BFG, Necromunda, Bloodbowl, Inquisitor etc) are not available in shops. Only from GW's website.
 
tneva82 said:
McKinstry said:
Battlefront offered the free version 3.0 book only for prior owners of the $55 USD v2.0 rules and once those are gone,

Sorry, ain't true. I don't have the 55$ but I could have got 3.0 rules as well. Chose not to get one as I just sold my fow collection.

The market for ACTA is not so big that there is any commercial value in pirating for profit and the limited number of players are such that out of enlightened self-interest, most any sensible gamer would shun a sleaze bag trying to play out of a scanned copy.

Piracy in ACTA happens. No point kidding yourself about it not happening. It's like being ostrich. Head in sand and pretend it doesn't happen.

I saw a pirated ACTA:SF rulebook the 2 or 3 days after release. Probably a UK customer, as the US customers hadn't reported in as having gotten any yet.
 
billclo said:
I saw a pirated ACTA:SF rulebook the 2 or 3 days after release. Probably a UK customer, as the US customers hadn't reported in as having gotten any yet.

Always happens, always within 2-3 days of release.
 
tneva82 said:
McKinstry said:
Battlefront offered the free version 3.0 book only for prior owners of the $55 USD v2.0 rules and once those are gone,

Sorry, ain't true. I don't have the 55$ but I could have got 3.0 rules as well. Chose not to get one as I just sold my fow collection.

The market for ACTA is not so big that there is any commercial value in pirating for profit and the limited number of players are such that out of enlightened self-interest, most any sensible gamer would shun a sleaze bag trying to play out of a scanned copy.

Piracy in ACTA happens. No point kidding yourself about it not happening. It's like being ostrich. Head in sand and pretend it doesn't happen.

Look at Battlefront's web site. You are not supposed to get that book unless you have a copy of 2.0. If you have one without having shown proof of having 2.0, you're in violation of their stated policy.
 
msprange said:
billclo said:
I saw a pirated ACTA:SF rulebook the 2 or 3 days after release. Probably a UK customer, as the US customers hadn't reported in as having gotten any yet.

Always happens, always within 2-3 days of release.

I would still expect that any legitimate gamer would have the good taste to refuse to play with cheats and pirates.
 
McKinstry said:
msprange said:
billclo said:
I saw a pirated ACTA:SF rulebook the 2 or 3 days after release. Probably a UK customer, as the US customers hadn't reported in as having gotten any yet.

Always happens, always within 2-3 days of release.

I would still expect that any legitimate gamer would have the good taste to refuse to play with cheats and pirates.

Putting your head into sand I see...

There's actually very simple and effective way to reduce piracy(it will never be killed off entirely like shoplifting won't be killed off). Simply put: Ensure product is available in digital format as well as physical product and do it a) quickly b) reasonable price c) customer-friendly(no stupid DRM's or anything. ONLY thing these manage to do is harm the paying customers. Pirates crack these things for breakfast and ask for more challenging one to keep them entertained for lunch).

Do this and you will have significant drop in piracy. What music/movie/whatever industry needs to realize is that they need to offer COMPETITIVE option. There's lots of people who have enough moral fiber that if given reasonable option to get products digitally they would take it but now either product is available lot later, pricing is reasonable or product is crappy to use(why pay for inferior product is basic idea of this...).

They will get it, eventually, when they realize they are burning money uselessly. When they realize they are hurting their own bottom lines(which is all they care about) they will start the change. Slow but steady. Meanwhile, customers are being hurt by their refusal to change in fear of change hurting their bottom lines.

edit: As a sidenote they also need to work on the SPEED issue on physical formats as well when it comes to licensing products. For example item that was available in country A last spring only started to be released in english this month...And that's 1 out of 3 dvd's. Last one will be available at summer. Pirated versions meanwhile have been available almost rightaway after original showing...This is NOT good way to fight against piracy.
 
Its always an odd thing with miniature war games. Its very obvious is you are using non official models. With ACTA-SFB you have the ADB counters, ADB2400 ships and ACTA 2500 ships.

If you see someone with a fleet of cheap knock off model ships you know the guy is using fake rubbish.

But it never ceases to amaze me that people will spend hundreds of pounds on the "official" miniatures and then use a pirated scan of the rules. Its not as iff you don't get the cut down rules free in the fleet boxes and anyone serious is going to be dumping several hundred pounds on the models.

Still I have seen people turn up with entire armies of GW figures at £4-5 a figure for the rank and file and £10-20 a figure for the personalities (easily £250 + for the army) and have a dodgy scan of the codex or army book they downloaded somewhere. Very odd.

Personally I have a set of books for home where only I get to use them and no one else leaves grubby finger prints on them or coffee rings or makes notes on them :evil:

PDFs are for going to games with a laptop or tablet, lots of books and they all fit comfortably in a small backpack :lol:

With pen and paper type RPGs its the rule books people want, with miniatures war games its the miniatures that are important. I know people will say its because the rule books were late but in 6 months time when the rules are stacked high in shops and easy to get people will still be downloading scans of the books to go with their £100 fleets. :roll:
 
Captain Jonah" But it never ceases to amaze me that people will spend hundreds of pounds on the "official" miniatures and then use a pirated scan of the rules. Its not as iff you don't get the cut down rules free in the fleet boxes and anyone serious is going to be dumping several hundred pounds on the models. Still I have seen people turn up with entire armies of GW figures at £4-5 a figure for the rank and file and £10-20 a figure for the personalities (easily £250 + for the army) and have a dodgy scan of the codex or army book they downloaded somewhere. Very odd. :roll:[/quote said:
With games workshop that may be because they change the army book and rules set every ouer year or at least it seems that way
 
greenboy said:
Captain Jonah" But it never ceases to amaze me that people will spend hundreds of pounds on the "official" miniatures and then use a pirated scan of the rules. Its not as iff you don't get the cut down rules free in the fleet boxes and anyone serious is going to be dumping several hundred pounds on the models. Still I have seen people turn up with entire armies of GW figures at £4-5 a figure for the rank and file and £10-20 a figure for the personalities (easily £250 + for the army) and have a dodgy scan of the codex or army book they downloaded somewhere. Very odd. :roll:[/quote said:
With games workshop that may be because they change the army book and rules set every ouer year or at least it seems that way

Common Misnomer - they cnange the rules much less often then people think and the army books /codexes are arguably not updated quick enough so that there some of them that are never updated between editions.

what they should do IMO is when a new Rule set comes out do a quick update of all army lists to fit in with the new rules but that I guess may impact on sales...........

6th edition is on its way apparently but probably not till 2013

Matt has said previously that he hopes to have a rules update/new ships publication each year IIRC.
 
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