What sex is your avatar?

[Supplement Four]

Flatscan posted a link to a pseudo music video in another thread that makes me wonder...

I see a lot of men playing female avatars in Age of Conan. I hear that farily common in mmo's.

Is that the way it is in your rpg games, too? I'm curious.

With the people I've played with, we've pretty much stuck to the same sex: Men play male characters while women play female characters. We've had a few cross-matches through the years, but never as main characters. I remember, back in the D&D days, everybody would have one main character and slowly, as the campaign built up, gather a small of posse of other characters that they'd play as those characters came into the story.

Or, when we played something pre-packaged, like Dragonlance, sometimes female characters would be handed out to male players--but never as their main character. Goldmoon, for example, might be companioned with Riverwind, and the two characters would be given to somebody with Riverwind being the main character.

Weird that this really didn't go for non-human races. What I mean is, the people I've played with have no problem playing elves as long as they're male elfs.

I know that Gnomes and Halflings and Half-Orcs have never been popular choices, with a few exceptions, although Dwarves and Elves and Half-Elves have always been favorites.

So, what about you? Do you have a lot of male players routinely playing female characters in your rpgs?

 

[zozotroll]

Playing well, Or playing poorly? Latly, not so many, but over the years, a lot.

My observation, most women play men OK. A few good RPers can play women OK. Most guys I have had play women regularly, play them as the biggest bunch of depraved bimbos you have ever seen.

A lot of these have been good friends, so I dont want to go into wheres and whys, but I used to criinge when some of them stated that they once again wanted to play a female.

To bad none now live close enough to me to play in my Conan game, as a few of them would make great temptresses.

 

[Supplement Four]

A lot of these have been good friends, so I dont want to go into wheres and whys, but I used to criinge when some of them stated that they once again wanted to play a female.

I guess it just seems strange to me, that a man would want to play a woman. Weird. The people I've played with over the decades feel the same way. As I said, when the story calls for it, they're not above having a female character as one of the several they play--but it just never felt "right" for a male to have a female as his main character.

Personally, I've never had a main character be female, and I even stray away from female characters in computer games. No Tomb Raider for me.

I was, frankly, astonished, when I found that so many men out there like playing female avatars in MMO's. That's what made me wonder...are there a lot of rpg-ers out there who routinely play female characters too?

 

[zozotroll]

I have never played a female myself. I dont get it either. I know that some play them as they think they wish more women to be. I also suspect that they would not deal well with one that acted the way they play them.

And yes, even though I have seen it a number of times, i still find it wierd. yet I dont have a problem with women playing men. But perhaps that is because they usualy dont play some odd caraciture of men.

 

[kintire]

There are those who suggest that the rather lesser immersion into character in MMOs lead to other considerations...

http://www.pvponline.com/2004/06/01/tue-jun-01/

 

[VincentDarlage]

I almost always Game Master, and as such, I play whatever character is needed for the story regardless of sex. So long as the personality is played right, what does the sex of the character matter? I play to the personality of the character, not to the sex of the character (well most of the time. Occasionally it is fun to pull something on the characters like the old crone in Worms of the Earth did to Bran Mak Morn just to see the players cringe and to see who is going to take one for the team).

So, for me, the sex of the character isn't really a big deal so long as the personality is interesting and the character serves some purpose in the overall plot and story without detracting from the value of the PCs.

Most of my players play the same sex as themselves, but a few might cross-over if their character idea is female. They usually manage to still create an interesting character. The exception to this was when I was developing the temptress - as I developed the class, I had my players all play women. They came up with some interesting concepts. Again, they were more interested in the personality and the character more than the sex.

 

[Supplement Four]

I am the GM 100% of the time, too. I'm one of those few people who actually prefer GMing to playing (although, playing is awesome).

I'm not really talking about jumping into and out of NPCs. I play female NPCs when needed, too.

What I'm talking about is a person's main character. The one he identifies cloest with. The one he spends most of his time with. His main alter ego in the game.

When that character is of the opposite sex, as an avatar in an MMO, it feels "weird" to me (and to those in my group), which makes me wonder at all the people who play female avatars in WoW and AoC--and it makes me wonder how many rpg players play rpgs with female main characters.

 

[Jeffreywns]

Are you talking about Roleplaying a female character in a mature setting or running around as a disruptive element with a juvenile twist?
It makes no difference if your roleplaying a sex or race. Why would it be weird for a male player to "make believe" hes a woman (which is the same race) but not when hes an elf/insect/space blob?
Are those female characters named in context with the genre or "Crazed Stripper 006"? The same holds for RPing. Is it a character or a disruptive player wasting your groups time with what he believes is comic relief.
In the later case it doesnt matter if he's playing a Vanir Barbarian OR Stygian Temptress. Its the same thing- juvenile. And therefore more suited to MMORPG games.

 

[Strom]

Supplement Four wins the award for Mongoose's Conan RPG forums Best Sex Title that Isn't Sexy with the title of this topic AND for his Kush topic. :lol:

:lol:

 

[Supplement Four]

Are you talking about Roleplaying a female character in a mature setting or running around as a disruptive element with a juvenile twist?

I'm talking about any male playing a female character as his main or only character in a game. Like wearing female panties under my clothes to work, it just seems wierd to me.

Why would it be weird for a male player to "make believe" hes a woman (which is the same race) but not when hes an elf/insect/space blob?

I don't know. I made that point above, myself.

Maybe because roleplaying a dwarf really is make believe while role playing a woman is freakin' strange.

My group gets into some intense role playing. Our characters typically aren't one or two dimensional. They have problems. They're real people.

So, you're playing a woman thief in a Conan game. You're off, breaking into homes in Zamora, when you get caught. Before you know it, you're surrounded by six thugs, all of them looking at you "that way".

{Throws some grappling dice, easily overpowering the character}

You're on the bed now.

(Original text deleted at Vincent's request.)

What do you want to do?



Something like that could easily happen in my game. It just seems wierd for a man to play the part.

 

[DooMJake]

Well with WoW its easy. Have you seen the muscles of the males?
Do you want to play a Caster with more Musclemass than...well Conan?
For me, that breaks immersion, and makes it rally, rally hard for me to play such a guy. So that might explain something. Another point is if I have a certain concept for a character that doesn't fit a male.

Yes, I am one of the few males who can (convincingly [is that a real word?] play a female character), and I do it from time to time. In some games my "main" character is male, in some others female, in some games I don't have a "main" and play several chars simultaniously(is that a word?)

EDIT to above post. I can see someone having problems playing that but what exactly has that to do with the chars' sex? the guards or whatever could rape a guy, too.

EDIT2: typo

 

[VincentDarlage]

Something like that could easily happen in my game. It just seems wierd for a man to play the part.

I wouldn't do that to a PC in my game, male or female, but that is a different topic about what one finds fun in a game.

Anyway as for a guy playing a girl in a game, I don't think it weird. A man invented Wonder Woman (the same guy who invented the lie detector, actually, which explains why her lasso makes people tell the truth). A man invented and wrote most of Red Sonja's early adventures. A man invented Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

RPing a girl by a guy is no different than a male author choosing a girl as the main voice in a novel, story, movie or TV show.

 

[Supplement Four]

I wouldn't do that to a PC in my game, male or female, but that is a different topic about what one finds fun in a game.

It's grit, like what Howard puts into his stories.

I remember, years ago, I was playing in a game run by another person. This was the first time I'd played with that GM. We're talkin' 20 years ago.

It was a standard D&D party we had, and a standard story. The princess had gone missing. A party of the best of the best was assembled to go looking for her. The king would reward us handsomely for her return.

You know the tale.

I played the Half-Elf Ranger, so I was scout.

I caught the trail. We realised it was Orcs that had taken her while she was out playing at hunting.

It was a pretty standard D&D romp...that is, until we my half-elf scout came silently upon a clearing. Down from the rocks, I'd found the Orcs, and I'd found the princess. And, in graphic detail, the DM told me what my character saw, what the Orcs were doing to the poor girl. He described their siliva streaming down their chins. Pointed teeth sticking out of their lips. Stinking leather. Blood. The girl screaming.

He described much more than what I'm telling you here.

I was outraged. The game had gone outside my comfort zone. No longer was I playing a character who hated Orcs. That GM, bless him for his skill in the role, made me, as a player, hate...and I do mean HATE...Orcs.

I hated them, and I wanted them dead.

I actually felt it.

He drew me into the story that way. He took the two-dimensional bad guys and showed me what my character would really feel if he were real.

My God, I still remember it to this day.

I wanted revenge. I didn't wait. I just waded into the Orcs. My character was nearly dead himself before the rest of the party could get there. We decimated the Orcs.

I took and buried the princess.

I couldn't believe how engrossed I was in this game. It had never been this way before. This was in the 80's. It was incredible.

It was like the guy took the veil off and showed me how the game could be played. No, scratch that. How it could be experienced.

Everything that had gone on before seemed like a He-Man cartoon compared to the battle scenes in Braveheart.

I learned what a Great GM could do with a simple, everyday, story.

And, I've always remembered that. Find ways to make the game real to the player. It doesn't always have to be through brutality or sexual criminality. I remember a Star Wars game where I had a protocol droid, in a very sad voice, talking to the players about his cruel master and he he was treated. The players actually felt sorry for this droid. They chipped in for an oil bath for him. They wanted to do something about his circumstance. I kept telling them that the droid was someone else's property. And, they kept telling me about slavery.

I had them.

You should seen how it got to them when they learned that the droid was programmed that way to be a con artist. Like a trained monkey, he took the creidts back to his master, and neither were to be scene.

Man, it was something else.

So, would I have a rape in my Conan? You bet. If the story called for it. It it was appropriate for the circumstance. If it felt "Conan". Yep. No doubt about it.

And, I'd describe the brutality, too. I'd try to pull the players in. Make them sick. Make them hate the bad guys--if that was the goal.

I'd do it--have done it--in a heartbeat.

 

[Malcadon]

It was a pretty standard D&D romp...that is, until we my half-elf scout came silently upon a clearing. Down from the rocks, I'd found the Orcs, and I'd found the princess. And, in graphic detail, the DM told me what my character saw, what the Orcs were doing to the poor girl. He described their siliva streaming down their chins. Pointed teeth sticking out of their lips. Stinking leather. Blood. The girl screaming.

He described much more than what I'm telling you here.

I was outraged. The game had gone outside my comfort zone. No longer was I playing a character who hated Orcs. That GM, bless him for his skill in the role, made me, as a player, hate...and I do mean HATE...Orcs.

I hated them, and I wanted them dead.

I actually felt it.

That is awesome! I like it when the players get into the story - even if you have to introduce some snuff-film brutality!

Orcs have been watered-down to just Chaotic-Evil bad guys so long, you just have to have them rape-the-puppy once in awhile to remind everybody that they are dealing with total bastards!

As long as my players are mature, I throw in rape and brutality to highlight the dangers of the world. I'm mostly indifferent because I have seen lots of 70's snuff-flims.

"Dead!" he muttered.

Slowly he rose, mechanically wiping his hands upon his cloak. A dark scowl had settled on his somber brow. Yet he made no wild, reckless vow, swore no oath by saints or devils.

"Men shall die for this," he said coldly.

I have not played Conan in awhile, but Carcosa is in the same vain as the Hyborian Age. In such a world, few things are taboo, people are generally selfish and self-serving, and the spells go into detail with the level of brutality needed to evoke them. That game got alot of flack from the RPG community because of the brutally detailed rituals, but the game is really enjoyable when everyone keeps a mature attitude about things.

As for my standing with Players playing different gendered PCs; I have no issue with it at all. Growing up playing D&D, I see people guys play females all the time. I have only seen a few guys play them as bimbo-sluts, but most of the time I have seen guys play them maturely. I notice girl-gamers get quit comfortable playing guys. Never be fooled with their half-elven unicorn-riding princess, and their 10-page backstory with well laid out familytrees - as man, they can be real bastards when they put their minds to it! It like a zen thing or something - but it can be quit fun!

I dont always get to be a player, so I try to make the most of it. I would create a female PC based on my mood. I might play a tomboy like Valeria, an evil manipulating femme fatale, or even a naïve bimbo nudest if we are going for something lighthearted and silly.

 

[VincentDarlage]

I'd do it--have done it--in a heartbeat.

As a said, best left for a different topic. Also, what you just described was done to an NPC. Raping a PC's character... if it were my character, I would never, ever return. Ever. I probably would never play the game again with anyone else, either. Some of us have RL traumas that do not need to be drudged up in a freakin' game (especially for the sake of "grit"). Let's get off this topic and go back to the one that started the thread, okay?

 

[DooMJake]

Well to avoid this situation the group should discuss which things to include and which to exclude from storytelling

 

[VincentDarlage]

I don't want to read graphic descriptions of how some people use rape in their games either. That was too much - especially without warning in the thread title that such ... ugh. This is just too much. I've got to go.

 

[Jeffreywns]

I must admit I was totally surprised by your statement that you have been playing for twenty years. Please do not take this as a personal attack- its an observation.
Statements like " playing female characters" attached to " wearing female ( as opposed to male?) panties" on a ROLEPLAYING forum seems to be a separate issue that has nothing to do with Conan, or gaming in general.
At your age you're perfectly aware how a VERY large group of people ignorantly view your hobby? Your.... odd posts and subject matter can be compared to that mindset more than anything else I can come up with.
Would you be just as uncomfortable with a gay player in your group? I wonder.
I guess I have nothing to add to your statements- except I have enjoyed many of your contributions to the game and I'm sure you will have other more interesting points to bring up in the future.

 

[Supplement Four]

@Vincent

Yeah, that's some tough stuff. It's not every body's cup of tea. With some of the graphic stuff that's in Howard's writing, though, I'm surprised what I wrote got to you so much.

My point was made. There's no need to carry it on. I certainly don't want to run you off. I like reading your input.

One interesting comment, though: The very thing that keeps my players coming back--the reason that they like playing with me as GM rather other people--is the same thing that you said would run you off and never have your turn back.

I think The Exorcist is the scariest movie I've ever seen. It scares me out of my shoes to this day. Others look at it as they do Friday The 13th (real horror compared to fluff, imo). And still others won't watch it because it makes them too uncomfortable.

There are different strokes for different folks in story-telling. Some like Conan. Some like Lord of the Rings. Some like Elric.





@Jeffreywns

Maybe it's that I'm used to extreme role playing that I find it weird that men would choose a female character as their main. Besides being graphic, my group gets into real, hard core roleplaying--being that person, experiencing what he feels, getting your mind into the make believe world so that its real to you. So, you can see, "getting into a female's head" that intensely...is rather strange.

I wouldn't prevent a player from doing it. And, as I've said, I've sure had male players play female characters in the past--but never as their main.

If I sat down at an MMO, I certainly wouldn't pick a female toon. I'm playing Oblivion right now--male character.

You wonder at how I'd feel if a gay person wanted to play in my game. I'd let him, if he was a good player, just like anybody else. If you wonder if I'm a homophobe, I'll tell you that we have a close personal family friend who is gay. He's so close to the family, that he helped carry my mother's casket when she passed. At the same time, I wouldn't vote for gay marriage, either. I am a conservative, but I don't think gays should be dragged out into the middle of the street and shot, if that's what you're thinking. But, let's not drag this into a political discussion.

When it comes down to brass tacks, I think its that, with the main character, I'm used to close identification with that character in order to play the character correctly. My group typically goes way beyond two and three dimensional characters. We try to make them "real".

That's where the hang-up is.

If a female is going into an Orc compound slicing up Orc babies, I want it to be more powerful than what we got when Anakin Skywalker did the same to the Sandpeople kids in Episode II. "I killed the children...and the adults...and the children!" The soap opera acting didn't help.

Something like that happens in my game, there needs to be consequences. It needs to feel real. And, I don't want to remind the male player playing the female slicer, "Hey, how about your maternal instinct? Got any?"

 

[Demetrio]

Howard never graphically describes a rape (or anything really, certainly by modern standards) as far as I'm aware. He has a sort of preamble to rape once or twice but the girl is saved before the rape actually takes place.

I'm used to extreme role playing

And yet you won't take the rather mild step of playing a female character?

I'm used to close identification with that character in order to play the character correctly

I assume then you have personally killed scores of men in close combat with cold steel...

And quite honestly the 'some of my best friends are gay' line isn't a good defence. But I'm glad you're not homophobic. Good for you.